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    #16
    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    Originally posted by Serena542 View Post
    I would be more willing to accept constructive criticism if I hadn't been met with such condescension, your answer included. So no, I'm not receptive to most of the feedback I've gotten. I do not appreciate being belittled by people who make assumptions about my practice and my character based on one facet of information I've provided.

    My bio might say "newbie" but I'm quite experienced
    Actually no one has made a comment about either your character or practice. Everything has been directed at your "workings" in this particular instance. The totality of your practice has not been addressed accept to the degree you've brought it up and other's may have responded to that. Your individual character or personality I haven't honestly seen addressed.

    Everything in my post applies directly to the preparation and formulation of your workings in this instance. All items that would have to be considered to effectively sever connections and put them into or onto something else. Also part of the process of burying the jar and forgetting about it as well as selecting the items to be placed inside of the jar.
    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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      #17
      Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

      Originally posted by Corvus View Post
      Your spell included your intentions and your energy. It has drawn attention to you. For one reason or another the spell itself may failed, but that connection was still formed and you came into their mind. Just because they aren't practitioners, doesn't mean they don't have intuition or sensitivity. It may also be that this reaching out is a mid point to your spell, allowing something closer to your intent to manifest, or giving you a resounding opportunity to firmly break things off yourself. There are many reasons that a spell fails, and yes I may say that there *are* coincidences in magic, but throwing something at someone can get their attention, even if you miss, and especially if that thing is a brick.
      Oddly enough, I've had the bolded happen before. I wanted a housemate gone and called on various things to get him away from me. Shortly thereafter he made the mistake of getting caught in a demonstrable lie about a communication and I lost my temper rather loudly. It also gave me an excuse to pointedly and actively complicate his life. He left not long after. I was not entirely thrilled at being used by my own casting but it solved the problem so I can't really complain.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #18
        Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        Oddly enough, I've had the bolded happen before. I wanted a housemate gone and called on various things to get him away from me. Shortly thereafter he made the mistake of getting caught in a demonstrable lie about a communication and I lost my temper rather loudly. It also gave me an excuse to pointedly and actively complicate his life. He left not long after. I was not entirely thrilled at being used by my own casting but it solved the problem so I can't really complain.
        Imo witchcraft is about getting one's hands dirty. It's work to manifest power and we do a lot of physical things like spell jars or poppets or even just the ritual practice itself. I don't think it's unreasonable for magic to use physical routes to accomplish things, or that something should purely be mundane or magic. We exist in an interconnected system with our magical and mudane. Our desires, and in many cases our magic, doesn't function logically or on what is most convenient, but what the energies or powers that be can be directed into most readily.

        A friend of mine was having an issue with her ex so her, some friends, and I did some magic about it. Nothing baneful, but warding up the wazoo since her ex is a practioner also, she found evidence of him hexing her, and she isn't great with psychic self defense. She obtained a court order the next week to get him out of their apartment and got an expedited restraining order. Our mutual friend attributed this to our magic. I was a bit more on the "maybe that did it" side but, I'm a firm believer that magic will manfiest where it can and it's the discerning witch who capitalizes on whatever opportunity arises.
        Circe

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          #19
          Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

          Like I said, it worked so I can't really complain. The route was moderately unexpected but that's life.

          Also, it's not like my spells having funny twists when I endeavor to defend someone or expel a problem is without precedent.
          Last edited by MaskedOne; 27 Jun 2020, 20:06.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment


            #20
            Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

            Odd man out, lol, but I don't have any stories like that to share. Anytime that what I'm doing works it's completely unremarkable, because people know what I'm doing. That's the most important part of how it works. That we bottle up our intensely experienced feelings about others, to the point that we work some spell against them in private, might be a big part of how we came to have such misgivings in the first place. The more people know about you, how you feel, and what you're doing, the more they care and the less likely they are to engage in behaviors which might harm you.

            The psychology of personal investment and reciprocity might not be supernatural, but it is powerful. In that we ascribe spiritual meaning to our private experience and our relationships with others, it's no less magical than a cantrip. It has the benefit of leveraging forces which we can understand and quantify and hold in our hands completely, as well. That's something I've never understood about the idea of offensive magic as described in our community. Supposing that it does work, wouldn't it be a weapon of unknown provenance, use, and devastation? I hear it described as though it were a rifle, but it might be more like a suicide vest.

            At the end of the day, I think that the idea harms our community. Just as much and for the same reasons that it would harm a christian community to be found praying that god would hurt some other person. It makes paganism...as a religion(or constellation of religions).. seem unserious, at best. At worst, actively harmful and unhealthy.
            Last edited by Rhythm; 30 Jun 2020, 06:18.

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              #21
              Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

              Rhythm,

              Just my own personal opinions here but I think when it comes to offensive / negative spells there is a time to let your "Target" know and a time to keep your mouth shut to be honest. That usage really depends upon how your employing your workings and where your focusing your intent and angle of action.

              It's like if I was using Hex's or Curses then many times it is appropriate to let the target know they are being targeted. Their own "mental" state can be a great acting force against them. Heck, to be honest many times you don't really have to do anything because they will do it themselves simply because hey think something has been done to them. But it also depends upon the skill or mental level of the person you are targeting.

              Yet for jar spells and what you've used in them often the spell is not about actually attacking someone but about severing contact with them. So in that regard it's negative in that the purpose is to break or destroy something. Yet that destruction is more to destroy what connects you so its best to fire and forget and not think about it again. So discussing it or recharging the connection your attempting to break really makes no sense. In fact it can even turn the jar spell into a battery and pull it right back at you vice severing the connection between you. Sort of like a corrupted honey jar spell I supposed in that regard. If you've thrown the jar away you can't even undo it, if buried you can at least dig it up and break it, burn it and destroy the contents or un-create it.

              But IMHO a lot will also depend upon what things were placed inside the jar or item that is being used. Contents is also one of the reasons people tend to not talk about specifics of their workings. Many of us were taught to "Fire and Forget" less we get feedback or stay connected to our workings whether they be positive or negative in action. TO keep talking about them is to have them leech off of us.
              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                #22
                Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

                I understand that there's broad diversity in how people approach whatever magic they work. Still, it seems just as broad in our community that people approach it uncritically and unseriously. It's something that I probably won't ever understand - and that's fine, these are just my opinions.

                Whether we choose to think of magic as a rifle, a suicide vest, or a severing blade...why is it that we aim it at our ex's? Our ex-boss, our ex-bf, our ex-so. How many people are praying to the powers that be for their ex to stub their toe while so many murderous despots continue to draw breath and are not severed from the people they harm? How many people leave paganism as a path, especially at this moment, when we need to be more conscious of this earth than ever...when their ex doesn't stub their toe?

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                  #23
                  Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

                  Originally posted by Rhythm View Post
                  I understand that there's broad diversity in how people approach whatever magic they work. Still, it seems just as broad in our community that people approach it uncritically and unseriously.
                  I feel quite the opposite. Magic is often approached with too much care, even fear. Specially when it comes to "darker" magic practice such as hexing, cursing or simply put aiming harm at someone. It's, in my opinion, approached with unnecessary apprehension. As any form of practical magic, it is no more than a tool. Like any tool, it presents a risk, but magic's power being derived of the practitioner's power, knowledge and experience, I don't expect a novice to possess the means to hurt themselves in a manner that could present any real threat to them. Far from being weak, magic still operates in subtle ways, with a balance that can be easily disturbed and thus the effect nullified. A novice will most likely render any spell inert before any potential backfire.

                  Originally posted by Rhythm View Post
                  Whether we choose to think of magic as a rifle, a suicide vest, or a severing blade...why is it that we aim it at our ex's? Our ex-boss, our ex-bf, our ex-so. How many people are praying to the powers that be for their ex to stub their toe while so many murderous despots continue to draw breath and are not severed from the people they harm? How many people leave paganism as a path, especially at this moment, when we need to be more conscious of this earth than ever...when their ex doesn't stub their toe?
                  The prevalence of curses, hexes and such "harmful" magic practices are common in pagan paths often due to the absence of divine retribution or justice. It is up to us to bring justice in a spiritual level, and just like a judge can decide on the fate of the guilty, we often are the judges of the people (both good and bad) that surround us.

                  Harmful magic is often derived of emotion. I care about the dear friend that betrayed me, and stirred up strong emotions in me, which in turns fuels the curse. But purely on an emotional level, that there's a dictator on the other side of the world doing atrocious things doesn't pull on any of my heartstrings.
                  Emotional distance is a thing, and for most people, whatever happens on the other side of the world, to people that we don't know, and it doesn't really affect our lives much, they're going to have a hard time feeling any empathy unless presented with pictures and videos specifically designed to stir up emotions. We are often insensitive to pure data.

                  Since magic often works out of emotion, we're hardly going to do workings in that sense. That doesn't mean we don't or shouldn't react to the horrible things happening in the world. That's were reason comes in. Reason and emotion rarely go hand in hand. Reason pushes to doubt and critical thinking, while emotion helps with suspension of disbelief, which is critical (pun intended) in spellwork, in my opinion.

                  When it comes to the real world, I think a mix of both is always key. We might lean on one more than the other depending on the situation, but I think you're quick to judge the place that magic has in people's lives. Maybe donating to a charity or volunteering to a non-profit is a better way to help the cause than cursing the culprits involved.

                  Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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                    #24
                    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

                    Hello serena542,
                    I agree with most of what the others replied. I do want to add this: I consider time to be a factor. In your first and third cases it seems like these people were not in your life for quite some time and seems like they were not influencing you so instead of flat out cursing them I would have advised emotional healing and/or forgiveness. For the second case you do not say if that person was active in your life or not.
                    I am not freaked out whether someone asked supposedly dark/bad spirits for aid either. Not everyone imagines a "divine white light" or "highest good"... certainly not me.

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                      #25
                      Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

                      I can definitely see your point, Sean, about narratives of caution, and being overcautious. Particularly given the general targets, aims and methods employed. I certainly don't worry that hexes and curses will do any real harm to their intended recipients. In that context, it would be absurd to be cautious about such performative acts. Similarly, about the emotional nature of those acts and their scope being limited by proximity.

                      OTOH, I think that it's easy to misread my comments in this regard. I have no qualms with magic occupying the place it does in peoples lives. You commented on images specifically designed to stir up emotions, and the ability of ritual to do this is well studied. In that we assign spiritual meaning to those experiences life is...though I think there are better words for it...thoroughly magical. It makes sense that our deeply felt experiences hold such a place and that magic as such an experience occupies that space. I'm not of the opinion that emotion and reason are truly separated in any meaningful sense. We feel the way that we feel for reasons, a person experiencing some emotion without cause isn't considered to be acting within their right mind. These causes are, imo, what drives us to seek out ritual experience in the first place.

                      If we look at something like a jar spell as a ritual expatiation of internal frustration, anxiety, and pain - it's not all that different from scream therapy. By sending our experience out into the external world we reaffirm our relationship with it (and it's effect on us). Pain having a tendency to isolate us within ourselves this can be helpful. We draw comfort and the reduction of anxiety from talking out our issues, and private rituals tend to take the form of talking things out when no one is there, or when we might not want to share what we're feeling with other people, so much as share it with the cosmos - which we intuitively grasp as having a personal relationship with us defined by the narrative of those experiences.

                      I simply think that having a realistic explanation of what we do and why we do it, and what it can and can't do is necessary to a robust and intellectually rigorous worldview. Ritual has an effect, largely on those who perform the ritual. More broadly on those in close proximity to a person performing the ritual as we effect those around us, and..as practitioners of voodoo realized quit some time ago, it can have an effect on others at a distance when they find the doll on their doorstep. The underlying ideology of magic as espoused is a treatise on relationships and effects. That the exterior world mimics the interior world, that it can be made to be as we wish it to be, and in this sense all magic is sympathetic. In this sense, all magic is emotional, but not irrational.

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                        #26
                        Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

                        Originally posted by Sean R. R. View Post
                        I feel quite the opposite. Magic is often approached with too much care, even fear. Specially when it comes to "darker" magic practice such as hexing, cursing or simply put aiming harm at someone. It's, in my opinion, approached with unnecessary apprehension. As any form of practical magic, it is no more than a tool. Like any tool, it presents a risk, but magic's power being derived of the practitioner's power, knowledge and experience, I don't expect a novice to possess the means to hurt themselves in a manner that could present any real threat to them. Far from being weak, magic still operates in subtle ways, with a balance that can be easily disturbed and thus the effect nullified. A novice will most likely render any spell inert before any potential backfire.
                        I have to disagree here, Sean. A novice can generate the same raw energy as an experienced practitioner if they have the right motivation. The difference lies in the control and direction of that energy. So while I agree that most novices lack the control to precisely direct their spells and energy without interference, I heartily disagree that this makes them weak, ineffective or not dangerous. An uncontrolled, high intensity energy burst can certainly do damage, either to it's target, it's caster or whatever outsider ends up catching the scatter.

                        And in a lot of ways, novices are far more likely to successfully generate energy for execration magick than other forms of magick early in their careers... simply because most people have high emotional motivation and less self control when it comes to harming someone that they think has wronged them. That doesn't mean those spells will hit their targets effectively, but that energy goes somewhere, and if the recipient (intended or otherwise) has low enough defenses then they will feel those effects.

                        So to say that novices can't post a real threat to themselves (or their targets) is, in my opinion, naive. It's also unfair.... because if they truly can't perform magick well enough to pose a threat to themselves, then they also can't be successful at altruistic magicks. And I just don't think that's true.

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