Putting my daughter to bed last night...

[Dez]

My little girl is 4 1/2 years old, and I've been a bit concerned about the affect my MIL has been having on her. We live close to them (even lived with them for a while), and MIL will do things like set a place for Jesus at the table at holiday dinners...this has led to my daughter, who has a great imagination, treating Jesus like an imaginary friend. Since Christmas we've had statements from "Jesus is sitting at the table, too", to "Jesus is flying behind the car". Sometimes he's even accompanied by Santa or Diego. It has led to me avoiding the in-laws a bit because it's led to MIL to switch between praising her and gushing about how "spiritual" she is, to being cold to her when she ads things that aren't kosher. Talk about confusing!

So last night, I was putting my daughter to bed, and she got very pensive all of a sudden, then started to cry. I asked her why, and she said, "I'm just pretending when I say I see Jesus. I want to see him, but why doesn't he ever visit us? He's dead, isn't he?"

Talk about a conversation I never expected to have with a four year old!

[FantasyWitch]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Jesus!! (sorry... had to be done).


That is baffling. What the hell are you meant to do in that situation?
You spoken to the MIL? Say to her to stop praising/scolding her over this because it confuses her. That isn't fair at all! How baffled she must be poor wee lamb... X

[thalassa]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Yeah...we had to go the "Jesus is pretend like Santa" route. We've been working on pretend vs real (with the emphasis that real doesn't make something better and pretend doesn't mean its not important) and alive vs not living vs dead. Basically, we've told her that "Jesus might not be real, but since it makes some people mad or might hurt their feelings, its not nice to tell them that if they think he's real...and just because he isn't real, doesn't mean the stories about him aren't important"

...and I so agree with FW regarding your MIL

[Caelia]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

What I was taught as a little girl (and by "little" I mean elementary school) is that his body died, but his spirit is still alive. He can be seen, but only when we go to heaven. Otherwise he is someone who is felt. I don't know if that helps you in any way...

[Medusa]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Tell her it's pronounced hey zeus. Then find the nearest Mexican kid and introduce her to him.

[PharaohKatt]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Wow, that's a tough one. Even though what your MiL is doing is horrible and manipulative, to just go out and say "she's wrong, Jesus isn't real" would be... Not a good idea, at least not if you want her to grow into her own beliefs. I definitely think you should speak to MiL and tell her that that sort of behaviour (scolding, praising etc.) is damaging her and hurting her. Maybe try to explain that not everyone believes in Jesus, and that even those people who do don't get to actually "see" him?

[Dez]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Hehehe...didn't expect to come back on and get a good laugh. This city is actually 98% + Caucasian, Jodee. I'm fairly sure our neighbors one building over are a significant portion of that 2%, and they're converts from Africa! I like the way you think, though...

I'm sure it'll be an ongoing conversation, but what I did end up saying to her was that different people think of God (and Jesus) different ways. I did my best to clarify that they're two different people, which gets confusing with the MIL because even though the LDS church believes that, she has her house plastered with images of Christ, and nothing about God. I also explained to her that the way her Grammie thinks of Christ is very different then what her Mama believes...that I think he was a very good man, who died a long time ago.

I've thought about taking the tactic you mention, Caelia, but something kept me from doing it this time. I think it's because there's such an emphasis on talking about recent people, like Joseph Smith, who have seen God and Jesus. When I was little, I really bought into that sort of revivalist aspect of Mormon dogma, and thought that if they could see God or angels, and no matter how hard I prayed and fasted I didn't, even in a state of innocence, doing my best to do everything right and desperately needing help in a rough home life, then it was because I was a bad kid.

I don't want her to go there, if I can help it, but I also worry a bit that relegating major local deities to Easter Bunny status will teach her to just not trust anything, or worse, be rude to those who believe in different things. Who knows, though? I never saw so many similarities between Santa and floaty-spacy God in my whole life as this past Christmas.

And yes, now that we don't live with the in-laws, it's easier to take a step back from MIL's more coo-coo reactions to things. I can't tell you how frustrating it was to have something like that happen and be trapped because we lived there. I'm looking forward to even more distance once we're able to settle the debts we were supposed to be paying off while living there.

[Raphaeline]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

When you said MIL sets a place at the table for Jesus, it made me think of our leaving offerings for various deities and setting a plate at a shrine when we're having a feast in honor of a deity's festival. I guess that if I had to explain it to a young child, I would explain that Dionysos or Ganesha or whatever deity we are honoring at the time doesn't have a physical body like we have... that he shouldn't expect to actually see the god... I've never thought about it before now, though. I guess I just figured I would know what Jack is capable of understanding at the time he asks about it, and I could just go from there.

I worry sometimes about how I'm going to explain my worship to my kids.

I think the roughest part of your situation is that MIL gives mixed signals - some pretend is bad, other pretend is good, and Squishie is too young to understand why her grandmother reacts like that.

[thalassa]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

I don't want her to go there, if I can help it, but I also worry a bit that relegating major local deities to Easter Bunny status will teach her to just not trust anything, or worse, be rude to those who believe in different things. Who knows, though? I never saw so many similarities between Santa and floaty-spacy God in my whole life as this past Christmas.

Sophie actually has a really good handle on this--I think most kids are more capable of getting it than we give them credit for. She knows that Tinkerbell doesn't exist as a "real" person (fairy), but she also knows that the story of Tinkerbell is "real", and that there are important things that we can learn by paying attention to Tinkerbell's story whether or not Tinkerbell really exists. And that doesn't ruin creative/imagination play for her--she has tea parties with Tinkerbell and all sorts of stuff, and if I ask her about it, she is very quick to point out that Tinkerbell isn't *really* real, just pretend real.

Sophie knows basically the same thing about Santa, etc and about Jesus--there is very little historical evidence for the physical existence of a Jesus, son of Joseph and Mary that became Christ, outside of the Bible, so we made a conscious decision to treat him as any other myth or story, including modern societal myths like Santa and the Tooth Fairy. We don't equate Jesus with "God" (by any name) however, and we separate "God" from the idea of gods (including the Abrahamic God) as stories that people have made about what they imagine the "God" to be.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Wow this must be tough!

I don't have any personal anecdotes to share because I don't remember ever hearing about Jesus at all until I was about 6 or 7 and therefore able to understand a bit better (nobody on either side of my family was religious at all until my uncle married a catholic when I was 7 and converted).

I agree with everyone else..sounds sensible

[Dez]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

When you said MIL sets a place at the table for Jesus, it made me think of our leaving offerings for various deities and setting a plate at a shrine when we're having a feast in honor of a deity's festival. I guess that if I had to explain it to a young child, I would explain that Dionysos or Ganesha or whatever deity we are honoring at the time doesn't have a physical body like we have... that he shouldn't expect to actually see the god... I've never thought about it before now, though. I guess I just figured I would know what Jack is capable of understanding at the time he asks about it, and I could just go from there.

I worry sometimes about how I'm going to explain my worship to my kids.

I think the roughest part of your situation is that MIL gives mixed signals - some pretend is bad, other pretend is good, and Squishie is too young to understand why her grandmother reacts like that.

That's a good point, Rafe...I hadn't really thought about talking with her about that one. I've got my little half-shrine set up in the kitchen, and I've never really talked to her about that, either...perhaps it's time to light a candle and pour out a drink when she's there. I know it'd start a good conversation.

[FantasyWitch]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Might be a plan Des. You want her to know as much about as many faiths as possible. Especially if you want her to make her own choices when she is older. X

[cesara]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

I bought a book on different religions that is geared toward children. It's amazing how well they 'get it' when it's laid out for them like in a book.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

Kids have a pretty good grasp of intuitive psychology, if you can explain it in an age appropriate way. A little talk about imagination, wish fullfillment and such might help, along with a bit of guidance in understanding how not to hurt grandma's feelings. It's also a good way of introducing your own beliefs - you can put them on an equal footing with MIL's, and let your daughter come to her own conclusions.

A little confusion isn't always a bad thing (although the mixed messages bit is disturbing - it doesn't ever seem right to me to make love and approval of a child directly related to agreement with personal beliefs, but maybe that's just me) - it's by working through our confusion that we learn to spread our own wings.

[Dez]

Re: Putting my daughter to bed last night...

I bought a book on different religions that is geared toward children. It's amazing how well they 'get it' when it's laid out for them like in a book.

LOL..I actually started doing this. Went out on Monday and took the kids to the library. Allie loves the one I got on the Norse gods...It's probably because I've been telling her about where the names for the days of the week come from, but I've read it to her probably 4 or 5 times since we got it.

Kids have a pretty good grasp of intuitive psychology, if you can explain it in an age appropriate way. A little talk about imagination, wish fullfillment and such might help, along with a bit of guidance in understanding how not to hurt grandma's feelings. It's also a good way of introducing your own beliefs - you can put them on an equal footing with MIL's, and let your daughter come to her own conclusions.

A little confusion isn't always a bad thing (although the mixed messages bit is disturbing - it doesn't ever seem right to me to make love and approval of a child directly related to agreement with personal beliefs, but maybe that's just me) - it's by working through our confusion that we learn to spread our own wings.

I hadn't though about it that way, Corbin, thank you! I tend to worry if she's experiencing distress over something...I never considered that it could lead to growth.