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    The Heart- the source of all pain?

    The concept of the heart. Other than the obvious medical definition what is the heart? Im realizing I do not understand what this heart is. Humans speak of it like a tangible thing, then where is it? If you speak of it you must know about it, what is it? I wonder if it is obsessive that I've spent the past two hours researching this. I've organized my research into a three page eassy and I am not closer to understanding than I was at the beginning. Can anyone tell me where is the heart? What is the heart?
    Circe

    #2
    Re: What are you thinking about?

    Originally posted by Corvus View Post
    The concept of the heart. Other than the obvious medical definition what is the heart? Im realizing I do not understand what this heart is. Humans speak of it like a tangible thing, then where is it? If you speak of it you must know about it, what is it? I wonder if it is obsessive that I've spent the past two hours researching this. I've organized my research into a three page eassy and I am not closer to understanding than I was at the beginning. Can anyone tell me where is the heart? What is the heart?
    Physically, its an organ that pumps blood slightly to the left of center in the chest of most people (occasionally, it can actually be on the right of a very small minority, sometimes causing/or being part of other medical problems).

    Figuratively (IMO), it is the very core of your being where you *feel* very strong emotions as an almost physical sensation. If you've ever felt some sort of love or loss type of emotion so strong that it caused a physical feeling reaction of being punched in the gut...thats your "heart".
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #3
      Re: What are you thinking about?

      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
      Physically, its an organ that pumps blood slightly to the left of center in the chest of most people (occasionally, it can actually be on the right of a very small minority, sometimes causing/or being part of other medical problems).

      Figuratively (IMO), it is the very core of your being where you *feel* very strong emotions as an almost physical sensation. If you've ever felt some sort of love or loss type of emotion so strong that it caused a physical feeling reaction of being punched in the gut...thats your "heart".
      Then to what end does the emotional heart exsist? I really have such little comprehension of the heart. I find this concept is extremely hard for me to grasp. Thankyou for your veiw. Does my research and lack of understanding of the heart mean something? I belive I have a heart but I don't understand the concept.
      Circe

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        #4
        Re: What are you thinking about?

        Originally posted by Corvus View Post
        Then to what end does the emotional heart exsist?
        In part, I think it exists as a way to make our ties to other people tangible--it strengthens our group/social bonds--becoming a parent, falling in love, etc... I think also, in some way, it acts as part of our conscience...you ever seen/felt someone treated SO incredibly unfairlu that it practically burned a hole in your gut?

        I really have such little comprehension of the heart. I find this concept is extremely hard for me to grasp. Thankyou for your veiw. Does my research and lack of understanding of the heart mean something? I belive I have a heart but I don't understand the concept.

        I don't think your lack of *groking* means anything other than a) the English language (and language in general) can be very poor at defining abstract ideas--particularly when their experience is subjective, and B) that some of the emotions that you really FEEL often come until later in life (parenthood) AND/OR depending on your life experiences, may not have occurred as they otherwise might--a bad relationship with a parent might mean that you aren't as affected if something happened to them, etc.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

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          #5
          Re: What are you thinking about?

          You can find the emotional heart in the brain. It's when all those chemicals and what nots shoot about. Making you think you feel something. Both my figurative and emotional heart are damaged. Which could explain a whole hell of a lot.

          Also thinking. When I said nappy time after Soup Plantation. I meant it I guess. I came home. Put on my Season 3 disc 2 of La Femme Nikita and konked the hell out.
          Satan is my spirit animal

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            #6
            Circe

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              #7
              Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

              Personally I don't mind feeling pain - emotional and otherwise. It reminds me that I'm alive, for a start. And I would hate to be one of those cold, rational types who never blubs at the end of Gladiator etc. I don't cry all that often, but I view it as catharsis, an emotional cleansing that does me good. So if the heart is the seat of our emotions, I for one would vote to keep it!

              Some ancient cultures (and I seemed to remember the ancient Hebrews were included in this, although I can't remember my source) believed that the source of the emotions was in the bowel.
              Better go easy on the laxatives then!
              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                #8
                Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                Some ancient cultures (and I seemed to remember the ancient Hebrews were included in this, although I can't remember my source) believed that the source of the emotions was in the bowel.
                Better go easy on the laxatives then!
                I know the Canaanites considered the heart to be the organ of thought and the liver was the seat of emotions. "Lay hold of what is in your liver" is a very old way of saying "Follow your heart", in a way. Which would make for some wonderfully weird declarations of love and emotion today.

                *imagines Celine Dion singing, "My Liver Will Go On"*

                ---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 PM ----------

                Originally posted by Corvus View Post
                The concept of the heart. Other than the obvious medical definition what is the heart? Im realizing I do not understand what this heart is. Humans speak of it like a tangible thing, then where is it? If you speak of it you must know about it, what is it? I wonder if it is obsessive that I've spent the past two hours researching this. I've organized my research into a three page eassy and I am not closer to understanding than I was at the beginning. Can anyone tell me where is the heart? What is the heart?
                Much like Thalassa said, I consider the heart to be the intangible core or seat of one's emotions. It's an abstract concept like love or justice. Language can be a tricky thing when trying to describe something like this because in certain ways it's limited in words and scope.

                You might try checking with a teacher/professor who specializes in philosphy if you're still in school too. They may be able to suggest some literature on the topic.
                "Gardens are not made by singing "Oh, how beautiful," and sitting in the shade." - Rudyard Kipling

                Mathbatu: A Canaanite Polytheist's Blog
                Sparrow Wings: A Personal Blog

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                  #9
                  Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                  Pain is an excellent tool for survival. Imagine if you never knew pain. You would fry your hand in fire.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

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                    #10
                    Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                    Originally posted by Corvus View Post

                    This is quite simple but it does not fully solve my conundrum. The point of this is what is the heart? do we need this heart? from my research on the emotional heart i have come to conclude that the human heart is the source of all human pain. This heart is why we feel pain, so would life be better without it? I have been told that the heart is a part of what makes one human, but why is this so?
                    I'm not entirely certain that human beings that literally have no emotion are capable of much in the way of motivation. If you can find a number of human beings that are driven to accomplish great things but are not in any way, shape or form emotional about their cause then I'll be mildly surprised. If the figurative heart is the source of emotion then it gets great value as the source of motivation for a large amount of human endeavor. At least from where I stand, the benefits are worth the cost. That said, traumatize me enough and my answer may shift for a while.
                    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                      #11
                      Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                      Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                      I'm not entirely certain that human beings that literally have no emotion are capable of much in the way of motivation.
                      I fully agree. I have a friend who literally admits to never having loved anything in his life. Based on this and other things I've discussed with him, I believe him to be a borderline sociopath. He's highly intelligent, but works a grocery job, because his motivation in life is to simply make enough money to survive. He is motivated mostly by basic needs.
                      He's also my best friend and a really great guy. Just for the record. But yeah, if he gave a damn he'd be capable of much, much more.
                      Be Excellent to each other - or something will Happen to you.

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                        #12
                        Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                        As someone who wears her heart very loudly on her sleeve I believe the heart is required on so many levels. Yes it is confusing and god it hurts so much sometimes but it is a requirement.
                        If I didn't have such passion for my art work I wouldn't still be trying to get into art school (which is really really difficult by the way) again. My heart drives me to do the things that make me most happy, the things that I love.
                        When it comes to people it is more tricky for me. I am an all or nothing type of person, so when I feel love for someone I feel it so much it hurts and it takes me a long time to let go of it. BUT that pain when it doesn't happen reminds me that I am alive. It is good to be hurt because it gives you the motivation to stand back up again. X
                        "You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me"- CS Lewis


                        https://www.facebook.com/KimberlyHagenART

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                          #13
                          Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                          Here's a way of thinking about it:

                          Part 1

                          Throughout the evolution of the species, certain traits - mental traits - developed and propagated through the population because they provided some sort of survival advantage.

                          For example, a human group which did not have the mental hardware which generates a feeling of attachment to infants (subjectively felt as "love") would not provide the care and nurturing which human infants need in order to survive and thrive. They'd be likely to leave the kid laying in the bushes when they moved on, or when the kid became annoying by crying - this group would quickly die out, and their genetic traits would die out.

                          Emotions can be abstracted to two basic principles - attracion and repulsion; one either feels inclined to seek something out, or to avoid something. We either want, or we want not. For example: Fear = repulsion, love = attraction.

                          The reason that no location can be found for the source of these feelings is that they are spread throughout our bodies, scribbled out in the genes in every single cell. What we call emotions when we experience them subjectively are what we call instincts when we observe them in animals - they are "body knowledge" - the way our bodies instruct us to act.

                          This is sometimes a little tricky to see because in many animals (such as honey bees) the instincts (or emotional range) are so limited that responses to environmental events can be very accurately predicted.

                          However, humans have such a wide range of possible behaviours - some of which are directly contradictory to others - that prediction becomes very difficult (except in terms of averages). This is what makes humans so adaptable that they have been able to fill the globe with their presence. You'll never find honey beel living in the polar regions.

                          Part 2

                          If some kind of super rational race were to develop (Vulcans?) which had succeeded in completely removing emotions from the self, relying entirely on logic, what would they do?

                          The answer is: Absolutely nothing. They would die out within one generation.

                          The reason why is that, without emotion to attach a postivie or negative value to things (to want, or to want not) every possiblity would be exactly equal.

                          There would be no point in growing food - starving to death or eating a decent meal would be exactly equal (it wouldn't "feel good" to have food in the belly, nor would it "feel bad" to have an empty stomac).

                          Wouldn't bother with education - knowledge and ignorance would be exactly equal.

                          Wouldn't take care of children - whether they live or die would be exactly equal.

                          Would never develop a legal system - justice and injustice would be exactly equal.

                          And on and on and on into infinity.

                          Love and pain are the price we pay for existing. I consider it a fair deal.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                            #14
                            Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                            Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post

                            Some ancient cultures (and I seemed to remember the ancient Hebrews were included in this, although I can't remember my source) believed that the source of the emotions was in the bowel.
                            Better go easy on the laxatives then!
                            lol that is so funny! that is actually true. the bowels ARE controlled by emotions. it we are upset, our bowels get upset.

                            Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Calorie Counter

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                              #15
                              Re: The Heart- the source of all pain?

                              It wouldn't be logical to let children die, it would go against the instinct to survive (which I have found that supersedes emotion). You don't need to give emotional love to a child, just tend the physical needs till it can survive on it's own. The type of adult it'll grow into may not be a loving being, but it'll be grown. You don't need to enjoy the meal, but the body likes to go "you will eat" even if your emotions say no, it becomes again driven on instinct. I've been struggling with a sort of emotional anorexia for a year (on and off my whole life really), emotions got so out of sorts that I stop wanting to eat, but eventually my body "blacks out" my mental and I find myself getting food and eating without the forethought of getting it. There is a huge probability that I will throw it back up, but doesn't stop the body from trying again. I can mentally go "don't eat that, I'm allergic" and body will go get it and eat going "need to eat and this is all there is". Maybe mental black outs aren't normal, but they do happen for me. And as I found out over and over again, your significant others can not love you, even feel hate for you, and still perform the act of coupling cause that's what hormones dictate and you're conveniently there.

                              Emotions have not proved a driving point, in fact I think they've proven a stagnator. Until I shut off emotions I had no motivation to get out of bed let alone do anything outside the home. I think I slept or cried most of last year away, I was content to let myself die. I didn't want to deal with the pain or drama of this world anymore. I still question if it's worth it, but my instinct to survive keeps over-riding the emotional want to leave.

                              At some point recently my emotions cut off and I started to function solely on instinct. If my body says something I follow from eating (since I don't get hunger pains I have to listen when my body shakes and goes "feed me") to getting inked. I don't really have a need to be social, I could not leave home for weeks except to go to work and be content with it. It can be a relief cause the social anxiety doesn't trigger unless someone tries to come over and I have to tell them to leave. Have to say my art has gotten exponentially better since I have dissociated. I've followed my emotions for most of my life, but I deem it not worth it after how it ended up. I do nothing now unless logically thought out.

                              I know people will say this is unhealthy and I can't possibly be happy without emotion, but there is a lack of pain, anxiety attacks stopped and I no longer crumble into pieces crying at the smallest thing anymore. I would say this is much healthier than the alternative.
                              -=Ex Ignorantia Ad Sapientiam; E Luce Ad Tenebras=-

                              My art and writing http://khaotyk-artwerx.tk/
                              (whole site is marked adult, the adult and gore sections are in their own section so you can opt not to view them, adult and/or gore stories are marked with an *)

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