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    DEBATE! What doesn't science do for you?

    So I was talking to some coworkers about an article that was posted to Slashdot, and it occurred to me that perhaps the Atheists of the world are missing something

    So what is it that you (anyone) get from your religion that Science cannot or does not give you?

    #2
    Re: What doesn't science do for you?

    I don't really feel I'm missing anything from science, and I believe in science very much and still think it's the most effective way to make new discoveries about the world around us. I really do hate the "science vs. religion" debate, because I feel that they're just different things. Science is the study of the world around me, that I can observe and see (at least maybe with a powerful microscope or telescope or something at least), and religion and spirituality are what I feel inside me and around me that isn't visible (or whatever...you get the idea).

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      #3
      Re: What doesn't science do for you?

      How do us Atheists get to participate in this?
      Satan is my spirit animal

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        #4
        Re: What doesn't science do for you?

        I don't think science and religion are exclusive to one another. To me they are two sides of the same coin.
        Circe

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          #5
          Re: What doesn't science do for you?

          I'm another who doesn't feel that science is at odds with religion. Science tells me how stuff happens, religion tells me that stuff happens and it is awe-full. Knowing how lightning works does not prevent me from beholding it with a sense of wonder, knowing that the air I breathe and the water I drink have been here since the dinosaurs roamed only makes me feel even more connected to life around me.

          Just because the world around me is made up of atoms, electrons, neutrons and bits of other stuff does not make it any less Divine, any less a part of the Great Mystery.
          The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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            #6
            Re: What doesn't science do for you?

            Science is the tool to try to answer anything. When people think of science, they think of labs and white coats. However, we tend to use the scientific method in our daily life, more than we think we do. Often, we just call it common sense.

            To gain any kind of knowledge, you need to go about it in an academic way. And that includes religious knowledge. You have to apply that scholarly kind of thinking when seeking any kind of knowledge. We need to apply that to religion in order to reach the truth.

            So that's to answer your question.

            Off topic rant: I'm tired of Atheists claiming they have exclusive copy rights on science.
            [4:82]

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              #7
              Re: What doesn't science do for you?

              I hate to be this person, but I feel the question is too vague. "Does not give" in terms of what? Gratification? Answers? And if answers, answers to what questions?

              While ultimately I have to join the cries of "meh, I don't see the two at odds", I don't think we're going to get far in answering the question if we leave it in terms of generalities.
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                #8
                Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
                Science is the tool to try to answer anything. When people think of science, they think of labs and white coats. However, we tend to use the scientific method in our daily life, more than we think we do. Often, we just call it common sense.

                To gain any kind of knowledge, you need to go about it in an academic way. And that includes religious knowledge. You have to apply that scholarly kind of thinking when seeking any kind of knowledge. We need to apply that to religion in order to reach the truth.

                So that's to answer your question.
                Agreed.
                Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
                Off topic rant: I'm tired of Atheists claiming they have exclusive copy rights on science.
                Ibn al-Haytham, for the win!

                As for the theories that come out of science - they explain what they will, when confirmed by enough experimentation.

                I'm tired of String theory being called "Science". For all the science that confirms it, it should be in the New Age section of bookstores. It's an elegant theory, but we just can't tie it down to anything observable.

                ---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 AM ----------

                Atheism doesn't give me access to that whole other realm of reality that Chaos magic does. Sometimes, I even acknowledge that other level as simply a mental device for self-therapy; other times, very strange results come about.

                Religion is in the realm of the subjective. Genuine Scientists often have a religion, but even they put it on a shelf to discover deeper truths about the world around us. Chaos magic is all about playing with that subjectivity. From exercises in that, I discovered my favorite bible verse is contained in my favorite bible chapter. By wearing another's perspective for a while to understand it, I grow. A part of that growth is the ability to communicate to the values that person holds, deeper so than simply remembering a list of their values.

                Talking about whether objective results came from a subjective phenomenon tends to lead to all sorts of bickering and one-up-manship. Therefore, I don't see the point in sidetracking the discussion with that branch of thought.
                Last edited by AzazelEblis; 07 Mar 2011, 19:48.
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                  #9
                  Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                  Originally posted by perzephone View Post
                  I'm another who doesn't feel that science is at odds with religion. Science tells me how stuff happens, religion tells me that stuff happens and it is awe-full. Knowing how lightning works does not prevent me from beholding it with a sense of wonder, knowing that the air I breathe and the water I drink have been here since the dinosaurs roamed only makes me feel even more connected to life around me.

                  Just because the world around me is made up of atoms, electrons, neutrons and bits of other stuff does not make it any less Divine, any less a part of the Great Mystery.
                  Yeah that's exactly what I meant too!

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                    #10
                    Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                    My religion gives me a way to think about things and find ou about them before science gets around to collecting info on it. Almost everything I've learned through my particular religion has been demonstrated correct by science, it's just that my religion got there first, but without the benefit of hard/objective data to back it up. Science has been providing that.

                    I agree with those who point out that they're not mutually exclusive - at least they shouldn't be - but, for some reason, there are people who love to treat them as if they are. A meaningful question is: Why?
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                      #11
                      Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                      It kind of bugs me actually (when people assume they're mutually exclusive). When I first brought up that I had religious beliefs some of my atheist friends (fans of science) assumed that I wouldn't be logical or believe in science. Luckily some of the criticism died down....I don't talk about my religious beliefs and they don't talk about religion being silly. I have one friend who I'm kind of distancing myself from (luckily he's in Canada)...we're very close friends and I've never actually told him any of my beliefs or that I'm even spiritual at all because he takes everything to be an invitation to debate. If I disagree with someone I might voice my disagreement but don't always want to debate it out until there's a clear "winner" and "loser"...I think it's possible for people to agree to disagree. Likewise if he disagrees with something you say, that's also an invitation to debate to him and there also has to be a "winner" or "loser." Basically, it comes down to the fact that he thinks he's right, and he'll go through whatever lengths to prove it, and if you even bother defending your argument, he'll ignore your sources anyway if it's something that doesn't fit in with what he believes (no matter how academic). He thinks religion is closed-minded and illogical, and that religious people deny science. I don't bother arguing with him because, given the above, there's no point. It'll just end up with him still believing what he wants and me being really pissed off.

                      On the flip side of that, I have a friend who is both a scientist and religious. He doesn't feel they're mutually exclusive either.

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                        #12
                        Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                        I was listening to an interview on the radio with a guy who had written a biography of Darwin. One of the things he brought up is that prior to Darwin, the view that "God" had literally created the world in 7 days was a minority viewpoint - by a vast amount (Darwin himself was a Chrisitan, and didn't see his work as antithetical to Christianity).

                        For some reason, following Darwin, claims for a literal interpretation of the Bible went up - at least in the public forum... currently, at least according to my daughter, you can't be a real Christian unless you believe that fairytale.

                        Things like this always make me wonder who stood to gain by making a non-issue into an issue? Or was it was just a quirk in the zeitgeist?
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                          #13
                          Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                          Originally posted by Roknrol View Post
                          So what is it that you get from your religion that Science cannot or does not give you?

                          Science offers very compelling explanations of how things happen...but science by its very nature fails to offer reasons for why they happen and what should be done about it. Whether your "religion" is Catholicism or secular humanism, whether you believe in one god/no god/many gods/the force/Elvis, those answers don't come from science, but rather from humanity. Belief in *something* (whether that something is science, or nothing, or one's self, or god/s) is what makes us human, and how humans should act and interact with one another and the world around us (whether that include the "supernatural" or not) is what religion is ultimately about (for better or worse).
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                            #14
                            Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            How do us Atheists get to participate in this?
                            See, I knew you were smart...

                            ---------- Post added at 03:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:40 PM ----------

                            Originally posted by Caelia View Post
                            I hate to be this person, but I feel the question is too vague. "Does not give" in terms of what? Gratification? Answers? And if answers, answers to what questions?
                            That was intentional, as I did not want to presuppose what some people may get from their religion.

                            While ultimately I have to join the cries of "meh, I don't see the two at odds", I don't think we're going to get far in answering the question if we leave it in terms of generalities.
                            I'll try to rephrase in awhile - gotta get to work, so I don't have time ATM

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                              #15
                              Re: What doesn't science do for you?

                              Science explains to me how the world works.

                              Religion give me a way to handle my day-to-day life...to feel comforted when sad, spurred to action when despondent, and like I can have some form of control over things when I am, in fact, powerless.

                              Short of learning how to shoot various endorphin cocktails into your arm, it's apples and oranges.
                              Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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