Pets chit chat thread

[Bjorn]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I know that I don't have the time or means for a dog but I know that the fella and I both want one at some point (stave off child-rearing) and I'm trying to find a dog that would fit both of our personalities and lifestyles.

MY LIKES:
Big dogs
Calm dogs
Snuggly dogs
Intelligent dogs
OBEDIENT DOGS

HE LIKES:
Dogs. Pretty much all dogs. His mama has a shih-tzu (not over my dead fuggin body, I HATE small dogs)
Friendly dogs
Loving dogs
Loyal dogs

Our lifestyle is very much calm and relaxed, we like to snuggle on the couch, make food, have drinks, have people over and we both have full time jobs (that probably won't change in the years to come either).


I was just curious to see what kinds of breeds other folks suggest based on that criteria. My heart is set on a little French Bulldog (or a mutt including that breed), or maybe a Puggle (pug+beagle=adorablecuddlekins). High energy dogs are probably off the table since I don't see us owning our own house for a long while.

[anunitu]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

One that would fit all that is a Lab,best tempered dog I ever had the good fortune to be around..Maybe just my take,but some dogs can be a pain..Though I loved my miniature dachshund,she was the most head strong dog I ever had.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Currently, I love beagles - midsize, but energetic and stubborn (intelligent breeds tend to be stubborn because, like intelligent people, they have their own minds).

But try this:

http://www.animalplanet.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds.html

[iris]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I've come to love poodles, they're very smart and soooo sweet, although I never liked the silly hairstyles, I found that when they're groomed properly they look like giant teddies
Poodle mixes too in general...
But really, I love dogs. All dogs. I've probably just warmed up even more to poodles because they're hypoallergenic.

Other good breeds... my cousin has the sweetest, most patient dog I've ever met. She's thrilled to see everyone, and she lets the kids play dressup with her. She's a pitbull. They're lovely too

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I know that I don't have the time or means for a dog but I know that the fella and I both want one at some point (stave off child-rearing) and I'm trying to find a dog that would fit both of our personalities and lifestyles.

MY LIKES:
Big dogs
Calm dogs
Snuggly dogs
Intelligent dogs
OBEDIENT DOGS

HE LIKES:
Dogs. Pretty much all dogs. His mama has a shih-tzu (not over my dead fuggin body, I HATE small dogs)
Friendly dogs
Loving dogs
Loyal dogs

Our lifestyle is very much calm and relaxed, we like to snuggle on the couch, make food, have drinks, have people over and we both have full time jobs (that probably won't change in the years to come either).


I was just curious to see what kinds of breeds other folks suggest based on that criteria. My heart is set on a little French Bulldog (or a mutt including that breed), or maybe a Puggle (pug+beagle=adorablecuddlekins). High energy dogs are probably off the table since I don't see us owning our own house for a long while.

A greyhound.

Contrary to popular belief, they do not need lots of exercise. And they have perfected the art of being a snuggly couch potato.

If this is your list, DO NOT get a Puggle, a Lab or a Beagle. Unless you adopt an older one, in which case a Lab or Beagle might fit (as long as you get one with no anxiety issues, as both breeds are genetically prone to anxiety).

Frenchies are lovely. I love Frenchies, and I see hundreds of them at my clinic as we are the vet that all the local Frenchy breeders. The problem with Frenchies is that they will cost you a lot of money. They are expensive to buy, and they are expensive to fix. If you can manage it, don't buy a purebred from a 'good' breeder, buy a non registered one, but make sure you meet BOTH parents. If you get a pure bred from a 'good' breeder, they will likely need stenotic nares surgery and a soft palate resection (both should be done at a young age, and ignore the breeders when they tell you it's not necessary... there's a reason bulldogs and pugs snore and snort like they do... THEY CAN'T BREATH). Plus they ALL have genetic mutations in their spines. It's 'normal' for Frenchies. Which = high probability of spinal issues later in life.

Anything with Pug in it will NOT be calm. Or particularly trainable.

Obedience is not a personality trait... it's a reflection of YOU and your training. The only thing that inherently affects 'obedience' is whether they are calm or excitable (excitable dogs don't always listen the first time), how intelligent they are (intelligent dogs will learn how to ignore you if there's nothing in it for them) and whether they have an anxiety disorder (99.9% of 'untrainable' dogs actually have an anxiety disorder and need medication). Excitability and intelligence wont make them untrainable, but it will mean that you have to work harder at training them. Intelligent dogs will require far more training, effort and motivation than others (ALL dogs are intelligent, but I know we're talking here about the really smart working breed ones). You can't get an intelligent dog and expect it to be perfect just because it's intelligent. It still needs all the basic training... yes, it will pick it up quicker, but you still need to do it and keep it up. They also need an enormous amount of mental stimulation... and while some will also be couch potatoes (Huskies and Labs, for example), it takes a LOT of effort at all other times to ensure that they are occupied. The breeds that I commonly see training issues in are Labs and Labradoodles, Golden Retrievers, Beagles, Westies, Huskies and Border Collies. These are all highly intelligent dogs that people get because they are highly trainable and friendly... but then the people don't have the time or inclination to put the training and mental stimulation into them, so they end up with a highly intelligent, bored and destructive dog who doesn't pay any attention to them and who they can't walk because they get too excited. Then they stick them on a choker chain and make everything worse because now the dog can't breath while it's not paying attention, which heightens it's arousal levels and makes it mentally incapable of paying attention and doing as asked. Yes, they are highly intelligent and friendly, and can make fabulous pets, but they are all genetically prone to anxiety and they all need LOTS of work.

In general, if you want a calm, obedient AND intelligent dog, you'll need to put LOTS of work into it. Or have kids so that THEY can put the work into it. Labs and Beagles make GREAT family pets... because the kids satisfy the mental stimulation and exercise requirements while you get to take it to training every week and reap the rewards of a friendly, intelligent dog. Childless couples looking for a calm dog often have a very different experience of breeds like that.

When I see your list, I go straight to the 'calm', 'not high energy', and 'entertain people' things. These things are far more important than everything else you have on your list. Most dogs are loving, loyal, intelligent and snuggly. The trick is finding one that is also calm and doesn't require a lot of energy. That's why I immediately thought 'Greyhound'. My other first choice for this list would be a Great Dane, but any giant breed dog is going to cost you A LOT of money to feed, medicate and de-worm. And they do horse sized poops. A Whippet would also fit your list perfectly, but they are smaller. Now I understand that lots of people think sight hounds (Greyhounds, Whippets, Italian Greyhounds, Wolfhounds, Deerhounds, Borzoi, Afghan Hounds and Salukis) are ugly and 'not real dogs'. But they are all calm, lovely, friendly, loving, loyal and responsive to training. They are intelligent, prefer to live indoors on the couch, need less exercise than most dogs and are not genetically prone to anxiety (I have met a Greyhound with an anxiety disorder, but it's rare in sight hounds). I'm not sure if the US has a program like ours, but here you can adopt ex-racing greyhounds... they go through a foster home first to assess personality, socialise them with people, cats, small dogs etc and then they place them in homes that suit their requirements. It's a fabulous program and I know so many lovely ex-racers. Sight hounds are my favourite class of dog, so I'm biased... BUT... they are my favourite specifically because they are calm, loyal, friendly, responsive to training and low maintenance. My list is pretty much exactly the same as yours, and in all my years as a vet tech, the breeds that stand out to me as fitting my list are all sight hounds with the exception of Akitas, Great Danes, Bernese Mountain Dogs, Malamutes, Bulldogs (French and English) and Mastiffs (French/Dogue de Bordeaux, English but NOT Neapolitan). Out of my list, I would go out and buy an Akita or a sight hound before I considered the others, but any of those would fit my sedentary lifestyle. (Cost and medical pre-dispositions are drawbacks for all Bulldogs and Mastiffs as well as a Great Dane and BMD.)

Keep in mind that you can do 'mental stimulation' in an apartment... all that requires is the correct toys, daily interaction and regular training sessions. Ironically, most indoor/apartment dogs are actually calmer and happier than dogs that are stuck out in a backyard all day. That's because of a few things...a) we train them better because they are indoors, b) we reinforce that training on a daily basis c) we spend more time with them and d) we are more inclined to remember to take them out for a walk because if we don't they'll toilet in the house. So don't worry about not having a yard. Yards are double edged swords when it comes to dogs. It's great for a dog to have a yard to play in, but you are more likely to end up with a calm and well trained dog if you don't have a yard. All you need is a twice daily walk, regular outings to an off the leash park (which is fabulous 'cos then you can sit on the bench with a phone/book while they run around), mental stimulation toys, food balls (instead of a bowl) and a household that is not chaotic and crazy (generally, a chaotic house will make it harder for a dog to stay calm).

At the end of the day, 80% of what makes a dog fit the family is actually YOU, not the dog. YOUR environment, personality and habits will effect the dog far more than anyone ever realises. You can get the most perfect dog in the world, adopt it as an adult after having known it for years and loving it, but it may not fit YOUR household and once you get it home it 'changes' because the dynamic between it, you and your lifestyle is different to the dynamic with it's previous lifestyle. Dogs are just like human roommates... sometimes you're best buddies while you aren't living together, but then you live together and you discover you actually aren't that compatible.

[Kiesha'ra]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I completely agree with you Rae'ya.

I'm partial to German Shepherds and Dobermans. They both have their pros and cons but are amazing family dogs and great protectors.

Ger. Sheps: prone to bone cancers and lymphoma, "good" breeders tend to have well temperamented ones as over bred ones can be very high strung and fear biters or just generally aggressive. We have a wonderful Ger. Shep breeder who has the long, whites and standard Sheps. Amazing temperaments and very intelligent, not hyper at all and very sweet.

Dobermans: Stay away from the blues they have genetic skin issues and poor coats, same with the white albinos, even the reds can (if thats not an issue for you then they are still great dogs). Are also prone to lymphoma, bone cancer and mast cell. We go through the Doberman Rescue due to our bad experience with the two breeders near us. Our current dobie is a blue and she's fantastic, so far no health concerns or skin issues at 6 months old. They are high energy and need at least two 45 minute walks a day and can become neurotic when not properly exercised, very intelligent. They LOVE to snuggle, and curl up to sleep with you, they think they are lap dogs, they are leaners and chatter their teeth when happy (or sometimes when stressed) and if you ignore them they WILL nose nudge you until they get what they want or thump (bow) and bounce. Super fun and sweet.

If you aren't looking for are particular breed a rescue mutt is the way to go, most rescue dogs become wonderful family members.

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Hey, Rae'ya, are you familiar with Newfoundlands? The GF had a fascination with them and (at this time) it's the breed she's stuck on for when some of our animals die off (cause, unfortunately, they will eventually). We absolutely will not be welcoming ANY more animals into the house till our population goes down though... so 5-6 years. Approximately. The Boston/French mix is 5 and the German Shepard is 6 and the cats (three now) are all under 2... ugh. Anyway, Newfoundlands?

Basically, what we want out of a dog, is laid back, not a crack head (low anxiety), and low on the prey drive scale. Basically low maintenance and won't eat the cats.

[Kiesha'ra]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Newfie's are great, pretty low key, sweet but like most extra large breeds pretty expensive to treat when ill or for any meds. Messy (slobbery and a lot of fur). They can also grow cutaneus horns on their toes (like an extra nail) that can damage pads and even is surgically removed can grow back. Otherwise pretty low key breed, kind of a big doofus.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Hey, Rae'ya, are you familiar with Newfoundlands? The GF had a fascination with them and (at this time) it's the breed she's stuck on for when some of our animals die off (cause, unfortunately, they will eventually). We absolutely will not be welcoming ANY more animals into the house till our population goes down though... so 5-6 years. Approximately. The Boston/French mix is 5 and the German Shepard is 6 and the cats (three now) are all under 2... ugh. Anyway, Newfoundlands?

Basically, what we want out of a dog, is laid back, not a crack head (low anxiety), and low on the prey drive scale. Basically low maintenance and won't eat the cats.

I know a few, and they are in a similar personality disposition group as BMDs... gentle giants. They are genetically prone to hip and elbow dysplasia (just like BMDs), which can be very expensive. They are also prone to genetic heart disease (not cardiomyopathies like some giant breeds, but an actual anatomical issue with the heart valves). They can also be prone to entropian and ectropian (rolled eyelids), but that's far less common in them than it is in the other Mastiff breeds. They tend to be calmer than most Mastiffs, much more like BMDs or a Pyrenees.

The thing with ANY dog, but particularly giant breeds and very large breeds, is that they are expensive. Expensive to feed, to medicate and to de-worm. I much prefer breeds like this from a personality point of view, they tend to be calmer, less genetically prone to anxiety and generally lower maintenance from a mental stimulation point of view. But you need to make sure that you are prepared for the possible genetic predispositions. If you end up with one that has hip dysplasia, could you afford to get hip replacements done? 'Cos if you can't, you'll either have to euthanase it, or completely rearrange your house and yard to make life livable, spend hundreds of dollars on daily pain relief, feed it a special diet and be able to carefully manage it's exercise and movement. Now all breeds have their genetic predispositions that can cost a lot of money, and that have long term pain and welfare concerns if left untreated. But giant breeds just cost that little bit extra to treat, and are unfortunately excluded for many things by pet insurance companies, so you need to be prepared for that.

If you can have a financial plan in place, or know that you'll be comfortable euthanasing it at 12 months of age if it has HD that can't be managed without surgery... go for it. I would be less worried about you getting a Newfoundland than I would with you trying another Husky type!

[thalassa]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Don't forget the drooling.... I love Newfies, but drool... (not quite St Bernard level drool). And shedding, the bigger the dog, the more they shed...if anyone has allergies (even if dogs aren't normally a trigger), they should go be in a home and handle a Newfie before you make the big decision. I say this from personal experience after dating a guy with two of them. Plus if you live somewhere with a long hot summer, they are sort of pathetically miserable.

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I know a few, and they are in a similar personality disposition group as BMDs... gentle giants. They are genetically prone to hip and elbow dysplasia (just like BMDs), which can be very expensive. They are also prone to genetic heart disease (not cardiomyopathies like some giant breeds, but an actual anatomical issue with the heart valves). They can also be prone to entropian and ectropian (rolled eyelids), but that's far less common in them than it is in the other Mastiff breeds. They tend to be calmer than most Mastiffs, much more like BMDs or a Pyrenees.

The thing with ANY dog, but particularly giant breeds and very large breeds, is that they are expensive. Expensive to feed, to medicate and to de-worm. I much prefer breeds like this from a personality point of view, they tend to be calmer, less genetically prone to anxiety and generally lower maintenance from a mental stimulation point of view. But you need to make sure that you are prepared for the possible genetic predispositions. If you end up with one that has hip dysplasia, could you afford to get hip replacements done? 'Cos if you can't, you'll either have to euthanase it, or completely rearrange your house and yard to make life livable, spend hundreds of dollars on daily pain relief, feed it a special diet and be able to carefully manage it's exercise and movement. Now all breeds have their genetic predispositions that can cost a lot of money, and that have long term pain and welfare concerns if left untreated. But giant breeds just cost that little bit extra to treat, and are unfortunately excluded for many things by pet insurance companies, so you need to be prepared for that.

If you can have a financial plan in place, or know that you'll be comfortable euthanasing it at 12 months of age if it has HD that can't be managed without surgery... go for it. I would be less worried about you getting a Newfoundland than I would with you trying another Husky type!

I don't think most vets around here do hip replacements. I might be wrong, but I've never heard of anyone getting their dogs hip replaced. I think most people more or less manage the condition or put them down. Cost wise, we're aware that it would be an increase in what we spend. Food wise, we know we can handle it. And vaccine and worming we can get through my gf's work, basically at the cost of the vaccine, which is much, much more affordable. Same with fixing them. And we'll likely be getting a mix of some sort, just with a hefty dose of Newfoundland in them, simply because we'll be rescuing rather than buying a puppy from a breeder.

Don't forget the drooling.... I love Newfies, but drool... (not quite St Bernard level drool). And shedding, the bigger the dog, the more they shed...if anyone has allergies (even if dogs aren't normally a trigger), they should go be in a home and handle a Newfie before you make the big decision. I say this from personal experience after dating a guy with two of them. Plus if you live somewhere with a long hot summer, they are sort of pathetically miserable.

Can you shave them? I wouldn't say our summer is nearly as bad as it could be, but we get up around 100 for a couple weeks, and hold steady around 80 for a month or two.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I don't think most vets around here do hip replacements. I might be wrong, but I've never heard of anyone getting their dogs hip replaced. I think most people more or less manage the condition or put them down. Cost wise, we're aware that it would be an increase in what we spend. Food wise, we know we can handle it. And vaccine and worming we can get through my gf's work, basically at the cost of the vaccine, which is much, much more affordable. Same with fixing them. And we'll likely be getting a mix of some sort, just with a hefty dose of Newfoundland in them, simply because we'll be rescuing rather than buying a puppy from a breeder.

Hip replacements are generally a specialist surgery, and most general practice vets wont have access to a vet who can do it. It's also really, really expensive. But it's the best thing you can do for a young dog with HD.

Sounds like you have the sort of plan I was talking about in place. As long as you're aware of the possible costs and things you may be looking at... go for it. It's just that a lot of people don't think about that beforehand, then get caught out later down the track, or end up not deworming their dog, or feeding them crap cheap food because that's all they can afford.

Can you shave them? I wouldn't say our summer is nearly as bad as it could be, but we get up around 100 for a couple weeks, and hold steady around 80 for a month or two.

Yes you can, but with careful management you may not need to. A lot of cold weather dogs are actually pretty well insulated against general heat, and shaving them can actually make them less able to cope with the heat. As long as you don't walk them in the heat of the day, and they have access to a cool area while you're out (either air con at home, or a backyard with some smart passive cooling design), they do fine. Our summers get up to 45C here... most people with cold weather dogs keep them indoors during the heat wave, at least in the laundry. But I see all sorts of dogs who should be miserable in the summer, some who get shaved and some who don't. I've only ever seen Chow Chows, pugs and bulldog breeds with heat stress in summer here... all the Malamutes and Mastiff types seem to manage, even the BMDs, Newfoundlands and Pyrenees. Just be smart about where they are when it's hot and do things like ice bricks in their water, shallow wading pools with ice bricks (a Newfie should love that) in the SHADE, and only take them out at 6am in the morning.

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

We feed a German Shepard on high end food no problem. She gets half and half dry veggie good to regular high end dog food, with a little wet mixed in to make it palpable. And we've been feeding a family of four kittens (finally got two of them rehomed). I figure, twice the size, twice the food. So we'll deal.

And with shaving, I know I was told not to with the husky because their natural insulation actually works better. I didn't know if the same would be true or not for newfoundlands.

Ah well. We've got five+ years anyway.

[Bjorn]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Hey, Rae'ya, are you familiar with Newfoundlands? The GF had a fascination with them and (at this time) it's the breed she's stuck on for when some of our animals die off (cause, unfortunately, they will eventually). We absolutely will not be welcoming ANY more animals into the house till our population goes down though... so 5-6 years. Approximately. The Boston/French mix is 5 and the German Shepard is 6 and the cats (three now) are all under 2... ugh. Anyway, Newfoundlands?

Basically, what we want out of a dog, is laid back, not a crack head (low anxiety), and low on the prey drive scale. Basically low maintenance and won't eat the cats.

I had Newfoundlands all through middle school and high school -- and they all had personalities that were unique to them. They were all relatively calm, friendly, a touch headstrong, playful, and fun loving. They are considered to be giants, but they are gentle, though I have seen a fight break out between two alpha Newfs and it was like watching two bears try to maul each other. My family and I went to conventions and knew a breeder personally (we got to see the puppies in the whelping box every litter, SO FRIGGIN CUTE) so I was around a lot of Newfs. The only fights I ever saw break out were between the dogs themselves, never towards their humans.

Basically, they're people-friendly and I think the only reason that these dogs fought with each other is because they were family and one alpha was coming into his own while the other was on the decline (that goes for males and bitches).

There are considered to be two types of Newfs: black ones and Landseers (black and white), which were considered their own breed but have come to be the B&W version of the Newf. I've noticed slight personality differences in Landseers and black Newfs, mainly that the Landseers I encountered were more assertive and the black Newfs were more calm. Also, the head shape on a Landseer is much less 'Newf' like because of the less prominent brow.

Attached is the standard Newf head and the Landseer, where you can see a slight difference in the slope of the brow.

There are also brown and grey Newfs but for the most part, you're gonna see these two varieties.

R already touched on the hip problems that all large dogs with long bodies encounter so I'll skip over that and go straight to a topic that no one has mentioned but was a very large part of my life: DROOOOOOL.

That's right. These pups drool. Landseers tend to drool less because their head-shape allows for more of their jowls to actually close, therefore their drool mostly stays in their big maws. However, the black Newfs, with their larger heads, tend to have jowls that do not close entirely which then creates drool. You can even see an example of this in the photo of the black Newf above -- that little circle doesn't close all the way and it WILL produce drool. A common chore in my household was cleaning the walls of drool that my dog had shaken, leaned, or swiped on. These dogs are NOT for the home-proud. You WILL be cleaning drool off of something, and their coats brings me to another point...

THEY HAVE TWO COATS. Yes. They're water dogs from Newfoundland so they were originally supposed to help fisherman up there, and save folk from drowning and rescue them. They even have webbed paws! Their evolution is pretty cool as far as I'm concerned, but those two coats make them twice as hard to bathe. The water would bead on their fur and then roll away as easily as if they were ducks instead of dogs, it was infuriating at times. It was quite a chore to bathe them but luckily they like the water so much that they didn't really mind it too much, though ALL of them hated the blowdryer.

LIFE EXPECTANCY. Here's the real downer -- like most giant breeds, you're lucky if you get them to 10. I know that there are some heart valve problems with some of them too, which takes them at an early age. We fed ours a pretty healthy diet of glucosamine and chondroitin to keep their joints as healthy as possible since, like R said, they have hip problems and all kinds of other problems. I am obviously not a vet so I'd wait for her input on whether or not giving them G&C was helpful or even worthwhile, but we felt like we were trying to be proactive and keep them greased up.

All in all, they were the best breed of dog I've ever had. I loved them. They would romp around with me in the yard, knock me over and shower me with drooly affection, they had very little interest in learning tricks but they liked simple things like tug of war, sticks to be thrown, and splashing in every puddle ever seen. I LOVED my Newfs. The only downside was that I loved them so much and they stuck around for so little a time. That life expectancy is something you should really consider. It broke my heart every time.

Also, I recommend getting them as puppies. You enjoy them longer, they become instantly loyal to you and yours, and you'll have a better time training them.

9/10, would have again.



P.S. They're not doofuses (newfuses?) at all. This breed is known for its intelligence, they just LOOK a little goofy.

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

We might be interested in a pup, but I'm leaning toward adopting an animal that's around a year old. Either way, it will be adoption, not buying from a breeder.