Pets chit chat thread

[Juniper]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I think the medication was making her too lethargic and she probably had an upset tummy from the antibiotics. We've just temporarily given up on giving her the meds until I can squeeze another vet visit in, soon (my only day off is one of the two days they're closed)... and her appetite seems to be crawling back.

She's on Vetprofen (every 12 hrs), Gabapentin (every 12 hrs), Fish Oil, Glucosamine + MSM supplements and some granules (I forget the name of it, at the moment).

She was on antibiotics and anti-itch medicine to treat the bacterial skin infection. We managed to get her to take meds in one form or another until the antibiotics were done, but after that is when she was getting extremely fussy. Thinking back now, I'm almost positive that she probably had an upset tummy because of the antibiotics. That's why I prefer not to take them myself, too.

She's making positive progress toward eating but is still refusing medication.

She's still wagging her tail and comes to the door when I get home, but I can tell by how she walks that her legs are stiff and achy. She's too brave to let it show how much she's in pain, I'm sure. I'm somewhat familiar with the method of giving her medication through the back of the mouth, but was struggling to get it done without feeling like I was hurting her. I may need to have a tech show me the proper way, it's been a long time that I had to do that and cats are much easier for me than dogs. Cat teeth don't intimidate me as much as a dog's mouth full of pointy chompers.

I want to move forward with the chest x-ray and ultrasound of her spleen (they found a mass on her spleen a couple of weeks ago but aren't sure what it is). The reason why I haven't already done it is because I'm not sure I could afford any sort of treatment or surgery following it anyway... so I'm not sure if the x-rays and ultrasound are even worth it.

Like, all of the emotions are surging through me daily and I'm afraid I am turning into the person that can't let go when it's time.

[anunitu]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I would say you never know,the Cat I had up in NY was sick and he disappeared for several days(he was throwing up and acting very listless) BUT after that 3 days he came bak and seemed a lot better. Some animals will consume wild plants to aid them when they are ill(watched my cat do that on several occasions) He was an outdoor/indoor cat BTW.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

I think the medication was making her too lethargic and she probably had an upset tummy from the antibiotics. We've just temporarily given up on giving her the meds until I can squeeze another vet visit in, soon (my only day off is one of the two days they're closed)... and her appetite seems to be crawling back.

She's on Vetprofen (every 12 hrs), Gabapentin (every 12 hrs), Fish Oil, Glucosamine + MSM supplements and some granules (I forget the name of it, at the moment).

She was on antibiotics and anti-itch medicine to treat the bacterial skin infection. We managed to get her to take meds in one form or another until the antibiotics were done, but after that is when she was getting extremely fussy. Thinking back now, I'm almost positive that she probably had an upset tummy because of the antibiotics. That's why I prefer not to take them myself, too.

She's making positive progress toward eating but is still refusing medication.

She's still wagging her tail and comes to the door when I get home, but I can tell by how she walks that her legs are stiff and achy. She's too brave to let it show how much she's in pain, I'm sure. I'm somewhat familiar with the method of giving her medication through the back of the mouth, but was struggling to get it done without feeling like I was hurting her. I may need to have a tech show me the proper way, it's been a long time that I had to do that and cats are much easier for me than dogs. Cat teeth don't intimidate me as much as a dog's mouth full of pointy chompers.

I want to move forward with the chest x-ray and ultrasound of her spleen (they found a mass on her spleen a couple of weeks ago but aren't sure what it is). The reason why I haven't already done it is because I'm not sure I could afford any sort of treatment or surgery following it anyway... so I'm not sure if the x-rays and ultrasound are even worth it.

Like, all of the emotions are surging through me daily and I'm afraid I am turning into the person that can't let go when it's time.

Both antibiotics and Vetprofen (I'm assuming this is carprofen, for pain?) can cause an upset tummy, which can reduce their appetite. Unfortunately, antibiotics are a necessary evil if there's an infection . What anti-itch medication is she on? They shouldn't be prescribing anything like cortisone at the same time that she's on an NSAID like carprofen, so if they've done this then it may be worth getting a second opinion from another vet.

Ironically enough, most people (including veterinary staff) are more worried about pilling cats than dogs! You can get something called a 'pill popper', which holds the pill while you shove it back there so that your hand doesn't have to go into the mouth. As long as you aren't scraping their mouth with your nails, you wont hurt them... it's not really very nice, but if the alternative is her being in pain then you might have to decide which is the lesser of two evils... and unfortunately, the inability to get meds down is sometimes a reason to euthanise, of not being medicated is cruel, but medicating is cruel. I don't know if that's your situation... you'll need to talk to your vet about that as obviously I can't assess without seeing Rain herself (and technically even then I can't advise you officially as I'm not a vet). Having said that, there are LOTS of other pain meds that you can try. Carprofen is one of the cheapest, but it tends not to be flavoured. Things like Previcox or Rimadyl come in flavoured chewy tablets, and Metacam comes as tablets or flavoured liquid. One of these might be better for her than the Vetprofen. Gabapentin is what we give when an NSAID is not quite enough on it's own. Sometimes we use Tramadol instead... both of these can make them feel a little bit flat, or 'stoned' at first. If you want to reduce the supplements you are giving, then there are foods that have them already built into them... Hills j/d or Royal Canin Mobility (I'm sure there are others in the US but those are the ones I'd recommend). Yes, they are more expensive than normal food, but it means you don't have to buy the fish oil, glucosamine, MSM and granules... and don't have to try and force her to take them! Most dogs really like the foods, and you can soak them in warm water if she has trouble with dry foods.

If she has a splenic mass then you should also check her gum colour when she has a lethargic/off food episode. Splenic masses can start bleeding randomly, which is an emergency that dogs will die from if it's not caught within the first few hours. If her gums look pale or white instead of pink then you should take her to the ER immediately. I would also caution you about waiting too long to do further treatment for that. Splenic masses are very easy to remove if you have the right skills, and if you have a referral surgeon do it then they can remove it with much less chance of complications (we tend to have special cautery equipment that GPs don't have... which makes splenic surgeries very quick and much safer than your GP or ER vet can do it). If you wont be able to afford surgery then that's okay, but be aware of the signs of the mass bleeding (lethargy, inappetance and pale gums) and be prepared for the possibility that she will die overnight or while you are at work. I know that sounds awful, but it is very common (as Shahaku has unfortunately recently experienced). It's not usually painful as far as we can tell, but it can make them feel very weak and unwell. In terms of the diagnostics they've recommended... a chest xray will just tell them if there are masses in her lungs too, and if you were going to have surgery it may be worth doing it as it will tell you if she also needed chemotherapy or not (having said that, a clear xray doesn't guarantee there's no spread as they start too tiny to see), but it's not necessary. An ultrasound gives them an idea of the size of the mass, and they will also look at her liver to see if that looks like it has masses on it too. It's not common to do biopsies via ultrasound for the spleen, due to the risk of bleeding, but they can biopsy the liver. Both are not mandatory, but give more information about the rest of her body. Honestly, most splenic tumors need to be removed because of the risk of bleeding, so it's worth talking to your vet about the possibility of surgery without the diagnostics, or about combining them to reduce costs.

I'm sorry, Juni... it's so hard when they start to get age related issues. It's the most heartbreaking thing about sharing your life with a pet

[Juniper]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Thank you for that information, Rae'ya.

Also, Vetprofen seems to be the generic version of Carprofen, and the anti-itch medication is Cephalexin.

I have two other vet places I want to reach out to. One is very far away (the place we took Jinx to when she urgently needed some teeth pulled and our close vet didn't have openings in their schedule), and the other is Dove Lewis, an pretty famous animal hospital around here that is open 24/7. The hesitation with that place is every time we've taken any of our pets there, we don't leave with them. Permanently. They're fantastic and caring folks there, but it seems we always end up there with an emergency case, usually after hours and don't get to bring our babies home.

I dearly dearly love my furry family members. But with that said, I'm actually looking forward to being pet free for a while in the future... The cats appear to be healthy for the time being but they're old (all or our pets are 14-15 years of age).

In any case, thank you again for the information. I will not take much longer to make a decision, for the sake of my baby-girls comfort and quality of life. I feel I've caused her enough pain, already.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Thank you for that information, Rae'ya.

Also, Vetprofen seems to be the generic version of Carprofen, and the anti-itch medication is Cephalexin.

I have two other vet places I want to reach out to. One is very far away (the place we took Jinx to when she urgently needed some teeth pulled and our close vet didn't have openings in their schedule), and the other is Dove Lewis, an pretty famous animal hospital around here that is open 24/7. The hesitation with that place is every time we've taken any of our pets there, we don't leave with them. Permanently. They're fantastic and caring folks there, but it seems we always end up there with an emergency case, usually after hours and don't get to bring our babies home.

I dearly dearly love my furry family members. But with that said, I'm actually looking forward to being pet free for a while in the future... The cats appear to be healthy for the time being but they're old (all or our pets are 14-15 years of age).

In any case, thank you again for the information. I will not take much longer to make a decision, for the sake of my baby-girls comfort and quality of life. I feel I've caused her enough pain, already.

Cephalexin is an antibiotic, and it can also cause an upset tummy (ALL antibiotics and NSAIDs can, whether you're dog, cat or human!). I've heard of Dove Lewis... they run continuing education programs for vets and nurses and have quite a good reputation. I understand about the association though... working at an ER/Referral place myself we have lots of people say similar things.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Hopefully she's feeling a bit better with the meds stopped. If so you could try putting her back on her pain meds one a time to see if you can find a compromise.

[Juniper]

Hmm that's weird. Why would they give me two different kinds of antibiotics. I already threw away the other containers because it was only 7 days worth. I thought the cephalexin was anti itch stuff (I'm pretty sure that's what I was told).

No wonder Rain doesn't want to take this stuff and I don't blame her.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Hmm that's weird. Why would they give me two different kinds of antibiotics. I already threw away the other containers because it was only 7 days worth. I thought the cephalexin was anti itch stuff (I'm pretty sure that's what I was told).

No wonder Rain doesn't want to take this stuff and I don't blame her.

Well there are not many reasons to give two different types of antibiotics unless you need to hit hard and don't have a culture and sensitivity test result yet... but even that's a bit risky 'cos you may end up using drugs you don't need. The other one may have been cortisone if it was only for 7 days. Generally speaking, antibiotics of skin should be for like 2-3 weeks, as they don't penetrate skin as well as other areas of the body and it can be tricky to get on top of skin infections. But all we can do at this point is speculate. You could always call and ask them, but it's probably not worth it at this point. I hope she's feeling better.

[Juniper]

Well there are not many reasons to give two different types of antibiotics unless you need to hit hard and don't have a culture and sensitivity test result yet... but even that's a bit risky 'cos you may end up using drugs you don't need. The other one may have been cortisone if it was only for 7 days. Generally speaking, antibiotics of skin should be for like 2-3 weeks, as they don't penetrate skin as well as other areas of the body and it can be tricky to get on top of skin infections. But all we can do at this point is speculate. You could always call and ask them, but it's probably not worth it at this point. I hope she's feeling better.

She seems to be much better without any medication right now. Her appetite is still getting better and she is not limping. Just moving slower. Still excited to see me when I get home from work. But she's taken to sleeping a lot now.

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

So we adopted a senior newfoundland. She's 9. She's also already got the early signs of hip dysplasia. We know we might not have her long (average life expectancy is 10), but we're working to make her more comfortable. Anyone familiar with the breed? One thing we're worried about is her weight. She weighs about 120, but that's after being shaved (she came into the shelter matted). And I've heard their fur can weigh 20-30 lbs especially if they're matted. We're fairly sure she needs to loose weight, thigh without the fur she's at the bottom edge of the average. We're also going to have her on some supplements the vet recommends and she has pain meds for her bad days.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

^^^ I love when people adopt an older animal.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

So we adopted a senior newfoundland. She's 9. She's also already got the early signs of hip dysplasia. We know we might not have her long (average life expectancy is 10), but we're working to make her more comfortable. Anyone familiar with the breed? One thing we're worried about is her weight. She weighs about 120, but that's after being shaved (she came into the shelter matted). And I've heard their fur can weigh 20-30 lbs especially if they're matted. We're fairly sure she needs to loose weight, thigh without the fur she's at the bottom edge of the average. We're also going to have her on some supplements the vet recommends and she has pain meds for her bad days.

Shahaku, hip dysplasia happens during growth as a puppy, so if she has it, she's always had it... it's just that it tends to go undiagnosed in certain breeds (like Newfies) because they have screwy confirmation anyway and the breeders tell you it's 'normal' for the breed. Weight control will be your absolute number one priority... don't go by the breed standards for weight, go by her body condition score... you should be able to feel her ribs under a light layer of fat/tissue but not see them, she should have an hourglass figure when you look at her from above and a tuck at the waist when you look at her from the side. The vet can help you with weight scoring and giving you advice as to how heavy she should be. Supplements and pain management will also be important. You can feed supplements with her senior food, or you can feed her something like Hills j/d or Royal Canin Mobility, which have all the supplements already in them. Pain relief may need to be every day to really keep on top of it... these guys are in pain, they just don't always show it clearly. A 'bad day' may actually be a 'really bad day' and so daily pain relief for arthritic dysplastic joints is usually more effective... but obviously that's a decision your vet will make. I would encourage you to take her to your own vet rather than just go by the shelter vet's advice... shelter vets are very good at what they do, but it's kind of a special niche and is a bit different to general practice.

Other than that, try to make your house hip friendly... give her long ramps instead of stairs, make sure she can get in and out of her bed easily, and make sure the floors aren't slippery (they have long hair on their feet, so tiled or wooden floors can be tricky for them). If it gets very cold in winter where you are, ensure she sleeps inside or has an insulated and padded kennel to stay warm... even though Newfies have a thick coat and are designed for cold temps, arthritic joints suffer in the cold and need to be protected when they are sleeping.

If you can manage it, I would recommend a blood test and some hip xrays to see the extent of her issues... whether it's dysplasia or arthritis etc. Elbow dysplasia is common in Newfies too. Sometimes the reason for the short life span on these dogs is their confirmation abnormalities, because unless they have surgery as pups, we just can't keep up with pain control and they lose their ability to walk later in life. So sometimes they are healthy otherwise, but suffering and in pain and unable to get up, at which point it's kinder to let them go. You can buy wheelchair carts for dogs, but it's difficult to manage a giant breed dog even in a cart.

And one final point... just be careful if she's around the baby. Toddlers and small children should not be allowed to play with elderly dogs that may be in pain, because they can easily hurt the dog and then the dog may snap or otherwise react. Respect her personal space and her inability to play or to move away if she doesn't like something. Don't let the baby jump all over her or get in her face or run into her... those things can be painful for an older dog and while they may be very tolerant and suffer through it, it's not nice for them.

Congrats on adopting her! I hope she fits into the family well

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Shahaku, hip dysplasia happens during growth as a puppy, so if she has it, she's always had it... it's just that it tends to go undiagnosed in certain breeds (like Newfies) because they have screwy confirmation anyway and the breeders tell you it's 'normal' for the breed. Weight control will be your absolute number one priority... don't go by the breed standards for weight, go by her body condition score... you should be able to feel her ribs under a light layer of fat/tissue but not see them, she should have an hourglass figure when you look at her from above and a tuck at the waist when you look at her from the side. The vet can help you with weight scoring and giving you advice as to how heavy she should be. Supplements and pain management will also be important. You can feed supplements with her senior food, or you can feed her something like Hills j/d or Royal Canin Mobility, which have all the supplements already in them. Pain relief may need to be every day to really keep on top of it... these guys are in pain, they just don't always show it clearly. A 'bad day' may actually be a 'really bad day' and so daily pain relief for arthritic dysplastic joints is usually more effective... but obviously that's a decision your vet will make. I would encourage you to take her to your own vet rather than just go by the shelter vet's advice... shelter vets are very good at what they do, but it's kind of a special niche and is a bit different to general practice.

Other than that, try to make your house hip friendly... give her long ramps instead of stairs, make sure she can get in and out of her bed easily, and make sure the floors aren't slippery (they have long hair on their feet, so tiled or wooden floors can be tricky for them). If it gets very cold in winter where you are, ensure she sleeps inside or has an insulated and padded kennel to stay warm... even though Newfies have a thick coat and are designed for cold temps, arthritic joints suffer in the cold and need to be protected when they are sleeping.

If you can manage it, I would recommend a blood test and some hip xrays to see the extent of her issues... whether it's dysplasia or arthritis etc. Elbow dysplasia is common in Newfies too. Sometimes the reason for the short life span on these dogs is their confirmation abnormalities, because unless they have surgery as pups, we just can't keep up with pain control and they lose their ability to walk later in life. So sometimes they are healthy otherwise, but suffering and in pain and unable to get up, at which point it's kinder to let them go. You can buy wheelchair carts for dogs, but it's difficult to manage a giant breed dog even in a cart.

And one final point... just be careful if she's around the baby. Toddlers and small children should not be allowed to play with elderly dogs that may be in pain, because they can easily hurt the dog and then the dog may snap or otherwise react. Respect her personal space and her inability to play or to move away if she doesn't like something. Don't let the baby jump all over her or get in her face or run into her... those things can be painful for an older dog and while they may be very tolerant and suffer through it, it's not nice for them.

Congrats on adopting her! I hope she fits into the family well

Thanks Rae'ya! We are going to be taking her to our vet shortly. My girlfriend works for a spay/nueter clinic and their vet tales care of all the employee animals. We just read through her official paperwork. It does say the tests they did indicate a torn CCL and hip dysplasia. We've got he on pain meds twice daily right now, and won't be taking her off or lessening until after the vet visit. The vet is worried about kidney and liver damage and wants to find a balance. We weren't sure until today if it was just arthritis, or if hip dysplasia was a problem too so that will probably change things. Right now, she's sleeping on the couch. We've shown her the toddler bed we have set up on the floor, but she wants the couch. She's super excited to go for walks, but otherwise has slept on the couch since we brought her home last night. We have noticed she needs outside frequently, and are looking into a supplement to help with that as well. To note, my girlfriend gets all our meds/ surgeries at cost, so that really helps us afford this.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

Thanks Rae'ya! We are going to be taking her to our vet shortly. My girlfriend works for a spay/nueter clinic and their vet tales care of all the employee animals. We just read through her official paperwork. It does say the tests they did indicate a torn CCL and hip dysplasia. We've got he on pain meds twice daily right now, and won't be taking her off or lessening until after the vet visit. The vet is worried about kidney and liver damage and wants to find a balance. We weren't sure until today if it was just arthritis, or if hip dysplasia was a problem too so that will probably change things. Right now, she's sleeping on the couch. We've shown her the toddler bed we have set up on the floor, but she wants the couch. She's super excited to go for walks, but otherwise has slept on the couch since we brought her home last night. We have noticed she needs outside frequently, and are looking into a supplement to help with that as well. To note, my girlfriend gets all our meds/ surgeries at cost, so that really helps us afford this.

Hmmmmm she has a torn CCL too? Has she had surgery for that? That concerns me. Honestly Shahaku, at this point you probably need to take her to a referral surgeon for a consult about her hips and cruciate ligament. She is not going to have much ability to walk for long with hip dysplasia and a torn cruciate. Cruciate disease CAN be managed conservatively (ie without surgery) in SOME small dogs, but it's almost impossible in a giant breed without also having serious ramifications for her hips. We have done cruciate repairs on elderly dogs plenty of times at my specialist surgical clinic... and some of them had terrible arthritis and hip dysplasia and other concurrent joint disease. Age itself is not a barrier to surgery (it just requires some special attention), so don't let a vet tell you that it is!

Kidney and liver damage can be assessed with blood tests so that's easy to check for. And yes, daily pain relief can affect liver function... that's why we recommend 6 monthly blood tests (just kidney and liver enzymes, not a full panel) while they are on it. But you have to find a balance between pain and affecting her liver. Some of the newer pain relief meds are MUCH gentler on the liver than the older ones, so there are plenty of options there. And honestly, at this point I think pain and mobility is going to be the biggest factor in her quality of life. Hopefully you can find a balance that works for her.

[Heka]

^^^ I love when people adopt an older animal.

Me too. I will only ever get pound doggies in the future. Those poor puppers need love and comfort.

A gf of mine said she wanted a dog, and how she wanted a big dog, but her yard is tiny and i mentioned that, so she's like 'nah I want a little dog atm'. She doesn't really want the dog inside much and her bf never goes outside so i worry about how this dog will get any interaction. Then she tells me she wants a cavoodle. How it's a few thousand to get one and there is waiting lists. It just made me sick. People paying thousands and going on waiting lists for breeds, let alone cross breeds, when there is so many unwanted dogs out there. Absolutely sick.

[Shahaku]

Re: Pets chit chat thread

We'll only ever get from a rescue. My husband will be choosing a dog as soon as he finds one and we'll be a three cat, three dog, one toddler family. I'm up next to choose, so that's exciting.

Rae'ya, with both ccls torn, and given her age, we're not sure surgery is reasonable. She could very well spend the rest of her life recovering from surgery. We got her knowing we probably wouldn't have her long, just hoping she could have a happy resting place for awhile. Nothings a given until she sees the vet, which will hopefully be this week. We did order some braces for her legs, which will hopefully help and give her more time, and bought a ramp for her, but we aren't going to be able to come up with 5k for surgeries, and possibly up to twice that. Right now, she's loving going for walks, and seems happy for about 15 minutes before getting tired. She's loving sleeping on a couch, a spends a good deal of her day there. We'll see what happens.