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    MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

    ...and not in a good way.

    Last week Washington Gov. Christine Gregoire vetoed a bill that would have clarified the rules for growing and supplying medical...


    So why is it that if we don't follow the Government's restrictions we get thrown in prison, but if they don't follow their own restrictions it's business as usual?

    #2
    Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

    It has to do with who's holding the gun, and where it's pointed (metaphorically speaking, of course).
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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      #3
      Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

      People still get prosecuted for mj possession?

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        #4
        Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

        Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
        People still get prosecuted for mj possession?
        According to the article they aren't to that point (yet). That being said, it's made very clear by the text that prosecuting individuals remains an option that the government will keep handy just in case.

        Basically, what the article is saying, is that even if individual states have marijuana laws that make marijuana legal (even for only specific people), if those states have laws defining how a Dispensary is supposed to behave, the government can and WILL prosecute the dispensaries. Even if they are well within the letter of the law.

        See, it used to be that in this country if a state wanted to make a law that "broke" a Federal Law, the Federal Government would reduce funding for that particular state. Nevada is a state like that - we allow prostitution and gambling (two things that are specifically prohibited, Federally, and as a result of that we get very little Federal funding (Federal tax dollars will pay for things like public schools in other states, but here the schools are primarily supported by the Casinos). Apparently the Government doesn't like that method of doing business, because they're basically saying, "We don't care what states want to legalise. If WE don't want it legal that's tough shit for them".

        As far as people getting busted in general? For the last few years, in states with MMJ laws, the feds have more or less left people alone. They were only prosecuting people that were acting well outside the legal boundaries, and far beyond what would be considered "reasonable", so no big deal - keep your nose clean and your head low, and they'd leave you alone. Now? Well...apparently all bets are off.

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          #5
          Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

          Gotta love it.
          "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

          "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

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            #6
            Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

            Jeez. Is it a coincidence I was just reading about remnants of the McCarthy era? Depending on who you are, I guess not.
            my etsy store
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            "...leave me curled up in my ball,
            surrounded by plush, downy things,
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            to descend."

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              #7
              Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

              I'm just realising how difficult it is for a patient to grow their own meds - it's an enormous pain in the butt, and beyond the cost (which can be prohibitive), can be very difficult if not impossible for a patient to grow their own.

              And of course, before they can grow their own, they have to acquire seeds or clones to even get started - and then hope like hell that their plant(s) survive for multiple generations...otherwise you're having to go through the same process in a few months.

              Then you grow. For my setup, I only grow one plant (and up to two clones) at any given time, which is WELL within what's allowed by law. From the one plant that I grow to completion, that will supply me with just about enough meds to last until the clones grow and produce. It's a cycle, but it's a *long* and expensive cycle (if I want to grow two plants, I'll have to double my capacity, which is another $600 + space...not in a position to do that yet.

              So, by coming down hard on the dispensaries, they're making it nearly impossible for many patients in Nevada to get their medication. Really, their only legal recourse (right now) would be to become legal in both Nevada AND California, drive to California to buy your 1 oz, and drive back. And hope like hell you don't get stopped by the state troopers, because there's a chance that they ignore the laws just enough to really make the whole ordeal too much of a pain in the ass.

              Or else you go to one of the slightly-less-than-legal dispensaries that are operating within Nevada. Or else you do deals the good old fashioned way - in bad neighborhoods and back alleys. Now I want you to imagine that, instead of a relatively healthy 35 year old man with some back issues, I'm a 68 year old cancer patient...possibly your grandparent.

              That's what's so fucked up about this - MMJ has been legal in Nevada for 10 years, and it's almost impossible for many patients to tend to their plants with the dedication that's required. Sorry...I'm rambling now...it's so frustrating to watch the world work their way backwards...

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                #8
                Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                You mioght like this story that originates in my part of the world:
                Detectives boasted about the giant drugs bust and posed for pictures at Merthyr Tydfil, South Wales while thieves were stuffing plants into a van at the rear exit.
                www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                  #9
                  Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                  LOL...and this ridiculousness would never be an issue if our various governments would quit trying to legislate non-criminal behavior.

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                    #10
                    Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                    This is one topic that my BF and I disagree on. Marijuana is a hallucinogen and I find it totally reasonable that it is illegal. That said, I see the hypocrisy of the government in policing this drug so harshly while allowing tobacco to be sold and used freely. If marijuana is illegal, so tobacco also should be. I also see a danger in making marijuana legal, in that it could end up like tobacco - heavily polluted with tar and carcinogens. Medical use of it is, of course, tricky, because so many different people want it. It would be like adderall, where people with or without a condition try to prove that they need it, and then sell it at a higher price once they get a prescription. Not great, but better than leaving it to drug trafficking. Just some thoughts - I'm not heavily invested in the subject. Just so long as it isn't smoked around me, pot doesn't really bother me.
                    My bf claims that marijuana is the only thing that helps his back pain. So he's very much for MMJ use. Unfortunately for him, it's not allowed in our state.

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                      #11
                      Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                      MMJ does wonders for pain (speaking of personal experience) but its very illegal here in missouri

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                        You're wrong.

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        This is one topic that my BF and I disagree on. Marijuana is a hallucinogen and I find it totally reasonable that it is illegal.
                        Ahh, in that case you must support legislation that bans alcohol as well?

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        That said, I see the hypocrisy of the government in policing this drug so harshly while allowing tobacco to be sold and used freely.
                        Hell, my problem isn't even that. My problem is that for those of us that are LEGAL, we shouldn't be treated like we're criminals.

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        If marijuana is illegal, so tobacco also should be.
                        Well, tobacco isn't an hallucinogen, so I'm not sure how you could make that stick. You could probably make it stick with booze though.

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        I also see a danger in making marijuana legal, in that it could end up like tobacco - heavily polluted with tar and carcinogens.
                        Wouldn't happen. The reason it can happen with tobacco is because tobacco needs very specific conditions to grow in and is very difficult to turn a reasonable profit off of it. Weed is incredibly easy to grow and companies would see a marked benefit by keeping their drugs natural.

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        Medical use of it is, of course, tricky, because so many different people want it.
                        You're right - it's like diabetics and their damn insulin. We could just outlaw it if they didn't "want" it so much. Listen: For the vast majority of MMJ patients, having access to their painkillers isn't a "want", it's a damn need. There's nothing "tricky" about the situation, other than the fact that you (obviously) don't have any experience with people suffering through the joys of chemotherapy.

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        It would be like adderall, where people with or without a condition try to prove that they need it, and then sell it at a higher price once they get a prescription.
                        So we just screw the ADHD people to prevent the assholes from taking advantage? We make something illegal because other people can't be responsible? Sounds to me like we should outright ban guns and cars too because people are far too cavalier and dangerous about their use of those particular objects.

                        A failing in the system is not the fault of the drug. A failing in human nature is *also* not the fault of the drug. If you want to ban things that people wield dangerously, then I suggest you start with religion

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        Not great, but better than leaving it to drug trafficking. Just some thoughts - I'm not heavily invested in the subject. Just so long as it isn't smoked around me, pot doesn't really bother me.
                        And as long as people are smoking it responsibly, it doesn't bother *anyone*.

                        Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                        My bf claims that marijuana is the only thing that helps his back pain. So he's very much for MMJ use. Unfortunately for him, it's not allowed in our state.
                        Well, it works for my back problems, and I've discovered that it helps a bit with kidney stones as well. Usually if I'm feeling nauseous (like if I have the flu or something), not only does it eliminate the nausea, but it also gives me enough of an appetite to eat something and keep it down.

                        I've noticed that it doesn't really help much with headaches, but I'll be damned if it doesn't help with almost everything else.

                        Out of curiosity: How do you feel about legal prescription drugs like morphine or lithium? Valium?

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                          #13
                          Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                          Dude, chill.

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                            #14
                            Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                            Originally posted by ThatKrazy View Post
                            Dude, chill.
                            If you didn't want a dialogue, I have to wonder why you posted in the thread.

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                              #15
                              Re: MMJ patients continue to get screwed...

                              This is really an interesting problem because federal law and state law can be completely different. I looked into the laws for MM in Michigan, and here's what I found:

                              "The Act (Michigan Medical Marihuana Program) neither protects marihuana plants from seizure nor individuals from prosecution if the federal government chooses to take action against patients or caregivers under the federal Controlled Substances Act."

                              So, essentially, it's the same here as it is in Nevada - you can strickly obey every law in the state, and the Feds can still kick in your door and drag you off. This looks like an interesting problem in state's rights...

                              ...which is weird.

                              I'm not a lawyer, but from what I've been able to gather, here's what I find:

                              Under the 10th ammendment to the U.S. Constitution, any rights not explicitly granted to the Federal Government by the U.S. Constitution belong to the states. This means that, unless the Constitution grants the Federal Government the right to regulate the use and/or dispensing of medicines within states and territories, it is unconstitutional for the Federal Government to prosecute individuals within states for using, supplying, or obtaining any medicine which is legal to use, obtain, or supply within that state. The Federal Controlled Substances Act (which is what makes boo illegal under federal law) is not an ammendment to the Constitution, and therefore is subject to questions of constitutionality.

                              It's unfortunate that the Feds have decided to set aside the Constitution in favor of mashing people with bad backs.

                              Hmmm... I wonder which part of the Constitution will be blacked out next?

                              - Since only the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) has the power to change the scheduling of drugs (marijuana is a schedule I drug, perscription drugs with high abuse potential are schedule II), I suspect that the DEA does not want MM legal - if marijuana becomes legal by sliding into the medicine category on it's way to decriminalization, the DEA looses a HUGE chunk of its power (and its funding). Asking a bureaucratic institution to give up a chunk of its power is like asking a fish to give up its gills. This is going to take a battle between state governemnts and the feds to resolve.
                              _______________

                              By the way, Rok, if you decide to go to California to get your meds, you might want to avoid Santa Cruz - they're having the same problem. You might also want to make friends with the ACLU, though: http://www.aclu.org/drug-law-reform/...marijuana-laws
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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