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    #16
    Re: Messages I'm Down With...

    There's a movie on Netflix (if you don't get it, you might be able to find it elsewhere), called For the Bible Tells Me So, that shows the better side of Christian religions and Christians towards homosexuality...and exactly how difficult it can be for families to overcome growing up or being part of denominations that don't share those views. Its really quite excellent. Particularly wonderful are some of the quotes by Desmond Tutu. In parts its sad, but overall...its inspiring. And I think its important to remember (particularly in the Pagan community), that Christianity, once you get past doing religion with Jesus, isn't the caricature that people like Rick Santorum or Pat Robertson make it to be.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #17
      Re: Messages I'm Down With...

      Ah!!!! I found another one... Go Episcopalians!

      From the article:

      On May 12, Bishop Jefferts Schori preached in All Saints Church in the town of Steenrijk.

      (snip)

      Her text was Acts 16:16-34preached
      ...I'd like to point out that this wasn't just a sermon by some random minister, but by the leader of the Episcopalian Church.

      And while I'm "down with" the Episcopalians, I thought I'd share another idea I'm down with from the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopalian Church (who has now retired):

      "I think people often come to the synagogue, mosque, the church looking for God, and what we give them is religion. And I think that is a huge mistake, and sometimes we let our ... fussing around with the institution get in the way of what people came for, which is help in facilitating their ... access and relationship with God. On the other hand, if you go off by yourself, then it can become a kind of narcissistic enterprise, and you don't have people around you constantly testing your understanding of God. ... [T]hat's what makes me believe in the church, in the synagogue, in the mosque, because that's the community of people that can help us understand better what our perceived relationship with God is, and test it against all those many ways in which we can try to shape it out of our own personality."

      Gene Robinson, retired Bishop of the Episcopal Church
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #18
        Re: Messages I'm Down With...

        So...a recurring theme anywhere where non-Christians congregate seems to be to equate all of Christianity (38,000+ denominations) with a) Evangelical Fundamentalists or b) diocesan Catholicism. With that in mind, I've like to introduce Pagan forum to my favorite (and hella controversial) Episcopalian, (retired) Bishop John Shelby Spong. Spong is a progressive Christian and a Christian humanist, and (in 2001) wrote a book called A New Christianity for a New World, which detailed 12 theses (in the non-scientific sense):

        1. Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today meaningless. A new way to speak of God must be found.

        2. Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of the theistic deity. So the Christology of the ages is bankrupt.

        3. The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense.

        4. The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ's divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.

        5. The miracle stories of the New Testament can no longer be interpreted in a post-Newtonian world as supernatural events performed by an incarnate deity.

        6. The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed.

        7. Resurrection is an action of God. Jesus was raised into the meaning of God. It therefore cannot be a physical resuscitation occurring inside human history.

        8. The story of the Ascension assumed a three-tiered universe and is therefore not capable of being translated into the concepts of a post-Copernican space age.

        9. There is no external, objective, revealed standard writ in scripture or on tablets of stone that will govern our ethical behavior for all time.

        10. Prayer cannot be a request made to a theistic deity to act in human history in a particular way.

        11. The hope for life after death must be separated forever from the behavior control mentality of reward and punishment. The Church must abandon, therefore, its reliance on guilt as a motivator of behavior.
        12. All human beings bear God's image and must be respected for what each person is. Therefore, no external description of one's being, whether based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, can properly be used as the basis for either rejection or discrimination.
        Rather than reading the book, a decent (some college paper, I think) synopsis sort of fleshing each thesis out can be found here.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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          #19
          Re: Messages I'm Down With...

          Wow - is he still considered a Christian?

          Seems like he tossed all the Christian out of the new Christianity.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #20
            Re: Messages I'm Down With...

            Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
            Wow - is he still considered a Christian?

            Seems like he tossed all the Christian out of the new Christianity.
            Yup...he is within his own denomination...though there are quite a few critics. And, of course, even more critics on the outside, particularly within the more conservative Christian denominations.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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              #21
              Re: Messages I'm Down With...

              OMGs I love this! I've been looking for this thread specifically for this post cause I lost track of it in the middle of computer changes. I'm so excited thal posted something new here so I could find this again.
              We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

              I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
              It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
              Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
              -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

              Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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                #22
                Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                Letter to Louise, written by Bruce Lowe
                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                  #23
                  Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    #24
                    Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                    Mother Teresa's version of The Paradoxical Commandments:
                    People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.

                    If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.

                    If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.

                    If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.

                    What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.

                    If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.

                    The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.

                    Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.

                    In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.
                    Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

                    Honorary Nord.

                    Habbalah Vlogs

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                      #25
                      Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                      because it provides nice counterpoint to young earth creationism.

                      Originally posted by Catholic Catechism
                      Faith and science: "Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason. Since the same God who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind, God cannot deny himself, nor can truth ever contradict truth."37 "Consequently, methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are."
                      source (though skimming may be required)
                      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                        #26
                        Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                        Episcopalian Church Head Disses Climate Deniers


                        Plus, the Pope...
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #27
                          Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                          I'm totally convinced the Pope is the AntiChrist. I say this in a good way and by a good definition of such. As in Daniel Quinn's Story of B. Anywho. Thumbs up Pope.
                          Satan is my spirit animal

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                            #28
                            Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                            More Pope...


                            I'm gonna start a fan club---Pagans for Pope Francis
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                              #29
                              Re: Messages I'm Down With...

                              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                              More Pope...




                              I'm gonna start a fan club---Pagans for Pope Francis
                              It's hard not to like this guy. His version of Christianity is so much more Christian than the hate mongering, prejudice, and intentional stupidity we tend to get from American Christians... at least in the media...
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                                #30
                                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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