Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

[thalassa]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

What if male circumcision was more drastic than just removing the foreskin? What if it was something more akin to female circumcision where it basically mutilated the genitalia?

This is why I think the comparison of the two is a logical fallacy, in terms of weak analog and a sort of red herring/straw man kind of way....

Anatomically speaking, the clitoris and the penis are analogous organs. If we were talking about making little boys eunuchs on a daily basis, I would have just as much of a problem with it as I have with female genital mutilation (imo, there is no such thing as female circumcision...there is nothing to circumcise).

...of course, I also pierced my daughter's ears as a child...and we have had far less problems than I had when mine were done as an older child.

[PharaohKatt]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

Female genital mutilation is quite horrific. It's the removal of the clitoris, and can actually stop a woman from ever achieving orgasm. It's also generally done when the child is much older than an infant, and is from all account incredibly painful :S

[yukanaoe]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

why would anyone do that? is there a medical reason for that to be done? like a disease or something? i've never heard of it

[PharaohKatt]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

It's a way of controlling women.

[thalassa]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

why would anyone do that? is there a medical reason for that to be done? like a disease or something? i've never heard of it

Its done for cultural reasons pertaining to the local interpretation of religious ideas mainly having to do with purity--if a girl can't enjoy sex, she won't have it when she shouldn't, seems to be the thinking.

[yukanaoe]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

thats horrible

[Ophidia]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

Anatomically speaking, the clitoris and the penis are analogous organs. If we were talking about making little boys eunuchs on a daily basis, I would have just as much of a problem with it as I have with female genital mutilation (imo, there is no such thing as female circumcision...there is nothing to circumcise).

Well, from that analogy, if a girl had just the clitoral hood removed (the physical analog to the foreskin) would it be ok then?

...of course, I also pierced my daughter's ears as a child...and we have had far less problems than I had when mine were done as an older child.

But what if, when she got older, she decided she no longer wanted pierced ears? After you've had them done, they don't always grow back into hole-less lobes.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

Lol Dumuzi everyone has been very mature so far.

and Perz.... whats a female circ? i'mm afraid to google it LOL

There are several degrees, but it's basically the removal of parts of the external genitalia for reasons that aren't therapeutic.

First type is the removal of the prepuce and part of or the whole clitoris. Second type is the same as the first type but they remove the labia minora as well. And then there's the third type where they also suture the labia majora together.

To me it's the same as cutting the tongue of your child, because you're afraid they might grow up to be liars.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

But what if, when she got older, she decided she no longer wanted pierced ears? After you've had them done, they don't always grow back into hole-less lobes.

Yeah...I mean, I don't want to ream anyone out for doing it...it's not the worst thing you can do. But piercing babies is actually a problem. I used to work at a place that pierced ears and I can actually tell you that what is "straight" as a baby isn't always so straight as an older child (they end up lopsided from growth a lot of the time!) In general piercing babies properly is problematic as well anyway...we refused to do it eventually and we got yelled at by a few mothers but it was actually just better than the alternative.

I think 3+ is ok though.

As for not wanting pierced ears, it's not the worst thing in the world. I really, really wanted mine done and was allowed at 9, but after a few years I had to let them grow over because my ears are just way too sensitive (even gold reacted sometimes!) and it just wasn't worth it. I don't find it's a problem...I have a bit of scar tissue there but it's not even bad enough to keep me from wearing clips.

[thalassa]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

Well, from that analogy, if a girl had just the clitoral hood removed (the physical analog to the foreskin) would it be ok then?

1. Is it a cultural norm with some sort of social or tribal significance that is not demeaning to the individual?
2. When done routinely, can it be performed safely, humanely and with minimal invasivness and result in statistically insignificant levels of error?
3. Does it leave the child fully functioning in adulthood?

If the answer to all of those were yes, then AFAIC, I am okay with parents making informed decisions about what to do with and to their child's body...even if I wouldn't do it myself.


Different people, different cultures and different times have always had different standards of beauty, health, attractiveness, status, etc. My problem with female genital mutilation isn't because it is irreparably changes a child (all of parenting is making choices that shape children into what the parent thinks is the most beneficial for them) , but because its done as a method of sexual repression for women, and it leaves them with numerous complications in terms of childbirth, reproductive functioning, pain, etc more often than not.

But what if, when she got older, she decided she no longer wanted pierced ears? After you've had them done, they don't always grow back into hole-less lobes.

Then she can blame me for what a horrible parent I was to have gotten them done early enough that there were no complications and no memory of pain. I would be remiss in my parenting skills if I didn't give her something that she can use as ammunition of what an awful parent I am when she is a teenager. TBH, Chickadee is super-girly without my help...and punk to boot, she already wants her nose pierced and a tattoo...at this point, she has more earrings (she "earns" a treat of her choice every so often by doing chores) than toys, but if that changes, I'm sure she will find a way to cope.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

Then she can blame me for what a horrible parent I was to have gotten them done early enough that there were no complications and no memory of pain. I would be remiss in my parenting skills if I didn't give her something that she can use as ammunition of what an awful parent I am when she is a teenager. TBH, Chickadee is super-girly without my help...and punk to boot, she already wants her nose pierced and a tattoo...at this point, she has more earrings (she "earns" a treat of her choice every so often by doing chores) than toys, but if that changes, I'm sure she will find a way to cope.

Sounds like it was her choice anyway....if she decides not to when she's older she'll know she wanted it when she was younger anyway! I don't find they grow out that badly if that happens anyway. I know loads of people who grew out earrings or other piercings (all chosen themselves as well) and it was fine. My brother even had his ears stretched at one point and they still grew back eventually!

[Gardenia]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

I'm not a parent, but I hope to be one in the next few years, so this is something my fiance and I have talked about a bit recently... First, I don't really go with the whole leave it to the man to decide approach. I mean, we made the kid together, I carried it for nine months and gave birth to it, and we're going to be making all the other important decisions together - so why should I leave this to just him?

I'm against routine circumcision. I disagree with making unnecessary permanent changes to a person's body without their consent. (Although yes, in the case of male circumcision, I do make an exception for religious reasons.) After reading a good bit on the subject I do not find any compelling evidence that it's a necessary thing to have done, health benefits/risks didn't look seriously better or worse one way or the other, etc., so if we have any sons it's something we will not be doing. If my son gets older and wants do get a circumcision, I'll support him in that choice.

That said - if parents do the research and come to a different conclusion than I did, and they decide to circumcise their child, I think that's their own business. I just wish more people would actually look into the information out there first, rather than just doing it because it's common or simply because the father has been circumcised.

[Medusa]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

I've experienced both. And when they are erect you really can't tell the difference to be honest.

[Kærlighed]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

I am uncut and my partner had the snip. We both feel very very strongly about this and are both of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." mentality. We left two boys uncut so if they want the snip as adults they can have it, purely because it is not reversible so they should be the ones to make the choice once they are old enough. Our third boy was cut but that was on medical grounds due to tightness, multiple infections, cracking / splitting and extreme pain.

I feel the snip should only be done if the person is old enough to understand and is fully consenting or if it is needed on medical grounds.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Parenting Debate: To Snip or no?

I read thid post, because I didd'nt even know that there was a debate. I had no idea that there were countries that did not circumcise boys, I thought that hospitals just "did it." I read the thread and did a quick google search of my own, and I am horrified by how it is done, I just have to admit that I believed that it was cleaner because it was taught to me in sex ed in school, (which had problems in it's own right.) Thanks for just having this post, it encouraged me to read about it, (which I may not have done otherwise.) and now I can sort of understand why there is currently such a fuss about it in Germany right now.