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    Hellenism Q & A

    For those of you that don't know, Hellenism is the worship of the ancient Greek pantheons (Primordial, Titans, Olympians and minor deities). I don't consider myself a true Hellenist, but I've been studying Greek myths since I was young and worship the Greek goddess of wisdom and war, Athena. So, if there are any questions on Hellenism, I'll do my best to answer. And I'm sure others on here are knowledgeable about some of it as well and may offer some insight.

    tl;dr: Any questions about Ancient Greek myths and worship, ask them here.
    Cogito ergo sum.

    My blog type thing: RaineV1.tumblr.com

    #2
    Re: Hellenism Q & A

    I'm very glad someone started topic about Greek religion. ;D



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      #3
      Re: Hellenism Q & A

      Well, I do consider myself a Hellenist (Hellenic recon), and can answer just about any question. :-)
      Of Thespiae

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        #4
        Re: Hellenism Q & A

        I am not a Hellenist, but I have a rather large interest in Hera.

        As a Hellenist, for you [either/any of you], how does Hera fit into the Olympic pantheon?
        Allow me to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket. ~ Captain Jack Sparrow

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          #5
          Re: Hellenism Q & A

          Ooooh, Hera is one of the few originally Greek deities, Zeus was actually an import and there are theories that Hera was the head deity for a while there until Zeus came in, raped her, and took position as head deity. I've read that it may have been a matriarchal religion though, y'know, goddess worship.

          I don't know much about the actual facts (I would have to brush up and with so many different regions and regional variations there really are no facts per se) but I do knot that for the longest time I viewed Hera as the shrew, always getting jealous and killing or transforming people. And she was totally the stereotypical evil step-mom to Heracles. And then I thought, she was a married woman whose husband was always running around and cheating on her and raping woman after woman, goddess after goddess, nymph after nymph. Of course she was a bitch! This goddess was the wife, the ultimate, dedicated, goddess of wives, and here her husband is constantly cheating on her. And then I found out about the bit with her being the head deity and how she an Zeus got together. Story goes he wanted her but she wanted nothing to do with it so he transformed into a song bird, summoned a hurricane and flew out into it. She took pity on the pretty little bird and saved it at which point he turned back, raped her, and bing, bang, boom he's the king and she's his cuckolded little wifey. I would be a little pissy too. My whole outlook on Hera changed.

          [/rant]

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            #6
            Re: Hellenism Q & A

            I think the reason Hera is often considered one of the bad guys in stories, is because people love Heracles/Hercules. Even though it's true she did some horrible things, it wasn't more than many of the other gods, who don't seem to get vilified nearly as much.

            Ooooh, Hera is one of the few originally Greek deities, Zeus was actually an import and there are theories that Hera was the head deity for a while there until Zeus came in, raped her, and took position as head deity. I've read that it may have been a matriarchal religion though, y'know, goddess worship.
            I don't know if Hera herself was an original goddess of the region or not, but it's true that many of the Greek gods came from other cultures. Greece was the melting pot of the ancient world. A nexus where the Dorian, Egyptian, Hittite, Phoenician, Minoan, and many other cultures intermingled. Many of the Greek gods originated from these other cultures. Particularly those in the Olympian pantheon.
            Cogito ergo sum.

            My blog type thing: RaineV1.tumblr.com

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              #7
              Re: Hellenism Q & A

              [quote author=Primitive Artifice link=topic=381.msg9800#msg9800 date=1288830763]
              Ooooh, Hera is one of the few originally Greek deities, Zeus was actually an import and there are theories that Hera was the head deity for a while there until Zeus came in, raped her, and took position as head deity. I've read that it may have been a matriarchal religion though, y'know, goddess worship.[/quote]

              I know that Hera predates Zeus, though I'm not familiar with the idea of him being imported from elsewhere- I don't know that much about Zeus though. I've never read in any credible source that Hera was ever the "head" of the pantheon, that before a certain point where they were all mythologically organized, there was no real hierarchy. As far as any indication of a matriarchal religion with Hera at the head, there's also no credible evidence of this.

              As for Zeus's supposed rape of Hera...I don't know, I've only really read over the original sources on this one loosely a few times, but it seems a lot less cut-and-dried than that to me. I don't know. But then, I've got some upg on this that would paint thins in a very different light and wish that I knew of someone who was esepcially familiar with Hera who might know if what I think sounds plausible or ridiculous.

              I don't know much about the actual facts (I would have to brush up and with so many different regions and regional variations there really are no facts per se) but I do knot that for the longest time I viewed Hera as the shrew, always getting jealous and killing or transforming people. And she was totally the stereotypical evil step-mom to Heracles. And then I thought, she was a married woman whose husband was always running around and cheating on her and raping woman after woman, goddess after goddess, nymph after nymph. Of course she was a bitch! This goddess was the wife, the ultimate, dedicated, goddess of wives, and here her husband is constantly cheating on her. And then I found out about the bit with her being the head deity and how she an Zeus got together. Story goes he wanted her but she wanted nothing to do with it so he transformed into a song bird, summoned a hurricane and flew out into it. She took pity on the pretty little bird and saved it at which point he turned back, raped her, and bing, bang, boom he's the king and she's his cuckolded little wifey. I would be a little pissy too. My whole outlook on Hera changed.

              [/rant]
              [/quote]

              Eeeh...I would suggest having a look at the section on Hera in Walter Burkert's Greek religion. It's not as simple as "OMG, she's such a poor powerless victim" and there is a whole lot more to speak to her equality with Zeus. Hera seems to be one of the bigger cases, as far as I can tell, of a deity's mythology and worship being very...disparate.
              Memories of Pain and Light: http://painandlight.wordpress.com

              "Hey love, I am a constant satellite of your blazing sun; my love, I obey your law of gravity, this is the fate you've carved on me, the law of gravity..." -Vienna Teng, Gravity

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                #8
                Re: Hellenism Q & A

                Do Hellenists worship heroes such as Odysseus, Achillies and Heracles? If so, do you venerate them as demigods? Are they an intricate part of the reconstructed religion, or do you see them as personifications of the poets that have come down to us?

                What is the Hellenist concept of the underworld? As a Heathen we don't really have a solid view of the underworld (as we haven't died yet!) but the ancient Greeks certainly did. Are Tartarus and the Elysian Fields actual concepts to you? Or are they personification?

                Thanks!
                "Wealth is as swift | as a winking eye
                Of friends the falsest it is."

                Havamal, 74

                "The wolf that lies idle | shall win little meat,
                Or the sleeping man success."

                Havamal, 58

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                  #9
                  Re: Hellenism Q & A

                  Hello everyone im new would anyone know any good books on Hecate?

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                    #10
                    Re: Hellenism Q & A

                    Originally posted by ConnollyCelt View Post
                    Do Hellenists worship heroes such as Odysseus, Achillies and Heracles? If so, do you venerate them as demigods? Are they an intricate part of the reconstructed religion, or do you see them as personifications of the poets that have come down to us?

                    What is the Hellenist concept of the underworld? As a Heathen we don't really have a solid view of the underworld (as we haven't died yet!) but the ancient Greeks certainly did. Are Tartarus and the Elysian Fields actual concepts to you? Or are they personification?

                    Thanks!
                    First question : Yes, many do. In fact, Orphism is an entire philosophy / mystery religion based on the hero cult teachings attributed to Orpheus, and was such a major movement in antiquity, it's often attributed as one of the influences on early Christianity. I also am pretty sure that Herakles plays an important role in the Elusinian mysteries. I don't know of a major religious movement around Achilles, for your other example, but the Diskouri had a pretty sizeable cultus in ancient Greece.

                    Whether they're revered as heros or as demigods is going to depend on the specific tradition, and in all honesty, even as best as we can tell, the distinction seems *largely* (though not completely) dependent on whether one is a part of the cult that venerates tbat hero, if one honours, say, ancient writings (and so the modern recons) seem more likely to refer to, say, Orpheus as a demigod, but if one is not, then he's a hero, and because of mythological importance, still worthy of respect, but not the same level of reverence that one initiated into that hero's cult would give. So in general, they're important to tbe religion, not mere personifications, but the degree of importance varies. This is one of the reasons that it's easier to think of Hellenismos as more like Hinduism than Catholicism: Hinduism is not a single religion. It's many religions united by a pantheon and a culture. If you take two random Hindus, it's more likely that they'll have differing beliefs than the exact same beliefs, even if they have some common ground. That is very much how ancient Hellenic polytheism looked, and no goal to restore its glory should forget that.

                    :-)

                    As for your question about the Underworld, I'm not sure how you mean "is it personification?" As for the definitiveness of the ancient Hellenic underworld, that’s not 100% correct. The classic image of Elysium and Tartaros is something that really didn't enter mainstream Hellenic polytheism until later in antiquity, and likely in response to popular mystery cults, including Orphism, offering a better afterlife to initiates. Tartaros, as per Hesiod in the Theogony, is as much a deity as Gaia and, with Gaia and Eros, are the three Protogenoi of that mythological tradition, and the earliest know mention of Tartaros in mythology. According to Hesiod, Tartaros is not a realm for the dead, but a pit of nightmarish things, and conceived in Gaia terrible gigantes, including Typhoeus, the giant who hoped to overthrow the gods and direct all worship onto him; upon being defeated by Zeus, Typhoeus was banished to Tartaros. With the implications of being a place of unknown nightmares, it's clear where then evolution of Tartaros into a punishment for the especially wicked came about, but there's little evidence that this was a belief that was very widespread in antiquity, but the easy stand-in it can create for various "circles of Hell" made that interpretation of Tartaros popular amongst Renaissance and later artists and writers. The most -mainstream belief for the dead in ancient polytheism is that the Underworld is just where the dead go, good or bad, and if any judgement is to be dished out, or any special privileges of the soul, that's for the gods to decide, and the primary concern of mortals is whether or not one is living a good life in the here and now, and whether or not it os in accordance with one's code of ethics. If the mysteries reveal to you something greater after life, that's all well and good, but the potential to be rewarded in the afterlife shouldn't be a motivating factor to do good now, good life should be its own reward. :-)

                    Originally posted by the_winds_of_mayhem View Post
                    Hello everyone im new would anyone know any good books on Hecate?
                    I don't really have any good books, but if you search Hekate on theoi.com, you'll get a wealth of references on Her mythology in ancient sources, and some info on worship in the Hekate Cult pages. That's the 101 I know off the top of my head. Sorry I can't be more helpful. :-(
                    Of Thespiae

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                      #11
                      Re: Hellenism Q & A

                      (Apologies if the following doesn't make much sense. I'm working it out as I type lol. Lots of thoughts swirling)

                      From what I've read it seems that the Greek Gods, maybe moreso than other civilsations, were a particularly vindictive bunch. You have mortals being fooled/forced into bearing children of a God and then said God's wife getting upset over the infidelity and punishing the mortal rather than her husband, (although to be fair I have no idea how you'd punish a god who can have any woman he wants.) Or alternatively disobedient gods being punished through their favourite city being destroyed. Titans seem to just be a pain in the arse no matter how they factor in, and it seems any attempt to get back at a cheating spouse/brother god you're mad at etc, seems to come out worse for the mortals caught in the crosshairs.
                      How do you equate this with your worship? Are the gods held to a different standard of morals, and so it doesn't matter what they have supposedly done? Do you just ignore most of these stories as just that; fables told by Greeks as bedtime stories? Do you pick a personality of a god(ess) out of the many faces they seemed to have, one that best suits what you're going for, and just speak to that? Are these gods simply just a preferred face of the gods that pop up all over the world, and you pray to their position rather than their reputation? (Goddess of knowledge, God of healing; whatever it is you need - sorry I'm not being very specific with my examples.) What exactly drew you to the Greek gods rather than, say, Roman or Egyptian?

                      That's probably enough questions for one day. Hope I didn't overload you :XD:

                      _________________
                      Nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but I'd just like to point out that this > :reallypissed: < looks like Spider-Man*


                      *It's really late here. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it
                      Last edited by Jasmine; 09 Sep 2012, 14:33. Reason: Browser Screw-Up
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                      "The very young do not always do as they are told."

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                        #12
                        Re: Hellenism Q &amp; A

                        I'm not a strict Hellenist - in fact, most of my connection comes from worshiping Dionysos and nothing else. But I had this problem, too.

                        From what I learned, and this isn't completely going to answer your question, the myths are meant to be taken metaphorically, even though the gods themselves aren't - at least in strict Hellenismos - metaphorical. I think the idea was that the gods exist, but the myths concerning them are actually designed to teach a lesson, despite whether or not it is believed to have actually happened.

                        For instance, Zeus is a wise god. He pursued and acquired wisdom so that he could be a good leader. The way the myths word this is to say that he devoured his first wife, Metis, goddess of wisdom.

                        I was never able to satisfy myself entirely with this because I needed an explanation for every myth and couldn't understand it on my own.

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                          #13
                          Re: Hellenism Q &amp; A

                          Love to see another Athena worshiper, OP.

                          I have really depended on Athena for a lot of wisdom and strength lately and I feel she has done so much for me. I really want to repay her in any way I can. I was thinking of setting up an alter for her in the future. What are some ways us Athenians can pay homage to her? I've read of what they use to do in Athens with the olives and such, but I'm curious if that's how we still approach it today.

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                            #14
                            Re: Hellenism Q &amp; A

                            I have no religion, but I am interested in Greek culture. As a Math major I use a lot of Greek Symbols. I usually read Greek Myth as just that, Myth. Sometime I think, based on events in my life, that there might actually be an Athena. I find it very probable that there is a Pan. (So you know I don't spend most of my time in the city.) The Greek Gods and Godesses are so many and varied, that there is probably a diety among them who watches over athiest philosophers such as myself. If you know whom, would you mind letting me know?

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                              #15
                              Re: Hellenism Q &amp; A

                              Originally posted by Mathematica View Post
                              I have no religion, but I am interested in Greek culture. As a Math major I use a lot of Greek Symbols. I usually read Greek Myth as just that, Myth. Sometime I think, based on events in my life, that there might actually be an Athena. I find it very probable that there is a Pan. (So you know I don't spend most of my time in the city.) The Greek Gods and Godesses are so many and varied, that there is probably a diety among them who watches over athiest philosophers such as myself. If you know whom, would you mind letting me know?
                              Sorry to jump in, but with your question; Athena can fit that bill. It was Athena who brought democracy and all people of Athens were very much into philosophy as you can tell with their self-ruling government. She is the goddess of wisdom, after all. Ever since I gave my homage to her at 18 I have made nothing but wise decisions and my philosophy has changed drastically for the better.

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