Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

[Dark Dragon]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

That's terrible... but you know how it goes, the media likes to twist things around, so unless we were there, we would never really know what caused the Police force, to use Force. I'm sure the police force is corrupt, just like anyplace else in the country. But I do also think there were probably people there, who were only there, to start trouble, and not protest. People sometimes just like to show up to those kinda protests, just to stir up trouble. But I wouldn't trust the Police either, considering, I don't care much for our government and Politics (just food for thought)

[cesara]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

+1 for the Occupiers

State Concedes Defeat For Now in Occupy Nashville Battle; Judge Bans More Arrests

"I can't think of any more quintessential public forum than the Legislative Plaza," she said, calling the governor's actions "clear prior restraint of free speech."

http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2011/10/31/state-concedes-defeat-in-occupy-nashville-battle-judge-bans-more-arrests

Proof that the system CAN work -- sometimes.

[thalassa]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Tea Party protests last a few hours.

These people have turned into squatters.

You gonna call them squatters too?

(and never mind the fact that most of the protesters *don't* live there, and quite many of them *do* have jobs (like my good friend John, in NYC, who also lets people use his shower)

The ones arrested should have been arrested. If there was room they might have arrested more.

You don't get to break the law and then scream that you were arrested unjustly.

I'm not screaming about anyone being arrested...go ahead and arrest them...its better PR. Hopefully the cops won't be dumb enough to accidentally (or purposely) kill anyone, or hurt someone's kid (the only reason I wasn't in DC) in the next round...which would *really* cause a *real* riot...which would largely make this look like a really fun frat party. I'm bitching about something called excessive force. Tear gas and rubber bullets for curfew violations? Targeting individuals that are clearly helping someone wounded? Really? That's okay? They have the "right" to pepper spray people walking without provocation, just because they have a badge and the other guy has a sign they don't like?

"Fuck unjust laws in an unjust system"' has been the American rally-ing cry since (before) our conception as a country. Remember a thing called the Whiskey Rebellion? Or how about the 200+ slave rebellions in the centuries prior to the Civil War? Oh yeah, and how about that Civil War...which wasn't fought over states rights, unless you are talking about a state's right to own other people... Or maybe we should remember the Boston "Massacre", Shay's Rebellion, the Civil Rights Movement, the Boston Bread Riot, the Baltimore Bank Riot, the NYC flour riot of 1837, the Portland Rum Riot, the Chicago Lager Beer Riot, the Meridian Riot of 1871, the Tompkins Square Riot of 1874, the Thibodaux Massacre, the Pullman Strike Riots, the Everett Riots (and I'm only at 1903)...

So some people don't like them and don't agree with their message. Maybe they've been watching too much Faux News and actually buy into the idea that there is no message (since they can't read signage), or that they are some sort of (horrible) "Socialist" uprising (because they don't actually know what the word means and Denmark has such a bad standard of living), or maybe they haven't paid attention to the fact that trickle down economics don't trickle down, or that some of the most productive periods of this country have been when there has been (comparatively) *more* regulation rather than *less* because it leads to a better distribution of wealth, or that whenever wealth has become concentrated at the top and life gets too expensive for the bottom there tends to be a recession, or maybe they didn't pay attention to what living conditions were actually like during the Industrial Revolution (it sucked) when there was no minimum wage, no unions, no benefits, no safety regulations, no sanitary regulations, no environmental regulations, etc.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Seems to me, Occupy works...as evidenced in the fact that people are talking.

[/rant]

[cesara]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Seems to me, Occupy works...as evidenced in the fact that people are talking.

Amen, Sista!

[Dez]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

VERY well said.

What about suffrage, too? It took the better part of 70 years for people to sit up and listen. The women who wanted to vote started out very polite, and well-funded interests rolled right over them. It took women starting to get out en mass in the 1910's. Women chained themselves in front of important political figure's homes, or to their carriages and cars. They were imprisoned and force-fed when they went on huger strikes, or kept until the police thought they were too weak to continue to protest, and had hopefully "learned their lesson". Once things got that intense, people started to pay attention. If they hadn't, we'd probably STILL be asking nicely.

I'm sure there were a number of people, including quite a few other women, who felt nothing but contempt for what they did.

What about the idea of sit-ins? Gandhi and Martin Luther King used sit-ins. These people aren't even going into Wall Street and refusing to move, they went where the police told them to go...a park several blocks away. And now that makes them squatters? All of these protests got their paperwork in order before they started. What is happening is city governments taking it back, and saying, "no, we changed our mind, get out of here." What would have happened if during the Civil Rights movement, every time people did a sit-in on a bus, or in a diner, when the police came along and said, "you can't do that here", they just got up and left. Would African Americans have the rights they do today?

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

They are sitting in on private property that is owned by the people they are protesting.

I see signs calling for socialism and communism as how some there want things done.

I see signs calling for expulsion of Jews, not "just Zionists" but the Jewish Bankers.

My family lived through this once already, I listened to the nightmares of what happened.

Please comprehend why I might be a bit worried.

[thalassa]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Well...I'm not sure I'd be hedging my bets on the Tea Party comparison then.







...I mean, if we are trying to play the "kookiest signs in the crowd define the overall consensus" game...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Just out of curiosity, what were the protesters attempting to accomplish ( i.e. What was their intended outcome)?

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Well...I'm not sure I'd be hedging my bets on the Tea Party comparison then.

Not one of them is calling for the expulsion of anybody from the country. And the Zionist mug isn't even real, heck it's not even a good photoshop.

Just out of curiosity, what were the protesters attempting to accomplish ( i.e. What was their intended outcome)?

Not quite sure, maybe ask Acorn?

[thalassa]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Not one of them is calling for the expulsion of anybody from the country. And the Zionist mug isn't even real, heck it's not even a good photoshop.

Actually, its an image from a Tea Party blogger's blog...I consider it internet signage.

[Dez]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Just out of curiosity, what were the protesters attempting to accomplish ( i.e. What was their intended outcome)?

The protesters are trying to bring attention to the idea that large corporations are successfully taking over our nation.

Between 1890 and the 1930's a number of laws were put in place because people were rioting over monopolies, working conditions, being unable to work a livable wage, and government and business practices which insured that almost all of the money made by a corporation became concentrated in a handful of individuals at the top. Starting in the 70's, those laws began to be removed or replaced, leading to an increasing disparity between the massive amounts of money large companies were making, and the wage of the average employee, which was not keeping up with cost of living. Here is an great example of the statistics involved, complete with graphs and charts: http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...t-2011-10?op=1

It is also becoming increasingly obvious that large companies are not only using funding for political campaigns to promote the politicians who will protect their interests, but are walking away from the current financial crisis they caused (and the government bailed them out of)with millions.

In response, the Occupy Wall Street movement is trying to draw attention to the problem. They are not only protesting, but encouraging people to switch their money from large banks to smaller local credit unions, decentralizing funds(which several people have now been arrested for doing). They are also encouraging things like not giving the big stores fourth quarter profits by spending your holiday money on items by local craftsmen, small local stores, or making things yourself. I am also part of a team trying to create a list of local food resources and co-ops, to help local protesters and sympathizers avoid spending money at large chain stores and restaurants.

While it is difficult to prevent a few assholes from showing up at a protest, in general America is not hearing about the quiet yet peaceful protests going on in over forty American cities right now, as well as sympathizers gathering together all over the world. They are not hearing about Goldman Sachs donating millions to the NYPD before arrests started in NY. Another good example of the misrepresentation going on by groups like Fox News would be this article by a CNBC contributor, MSNBC commentator and former White House aide on his experience going to Zuccotti park himself to see the situation. You also have people misrepresenting their own polls. The fact that these protests have been primarily peaceful is why the police force in Albany recently refused a direct order to break up the protest there.

A few idiots aside, the primary reason some of the protests have gotten ugly is because city governments are extending permission, letting people get all the paperwork in order, then abruptly refusing to let them protest later. Even here in Idaho we are having the same problem. A major event was scheduled for Pocatello this week, and at the last moment protesters were refused the ability (they'd already been granted) to camp in the park. In Oakland, the police came and just told everyone to go home, even though they had all their papers in order. So a few hours later they came back. At that point, the police started using gas and rubber bullets, and consistently picked out and fired on those who tried to go to the aid of people who went down. Parks are public, not private property. An example of refusing to move from private property like LGR claims this is would be the sit-in's at diners and department stores in the Civil Rights movement.


Does that make sense, Corbin?

If you want an excellent, but more emotionally-based example, go here: http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

LOL - yeah, but...

Were people unaware of this previously? I don't know if a protest can wake the dead...

[Dez]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Heh, point.

I think more then anything people started to hit a breaking point.

[cesara]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

They are sitting in on private property that is owned by the people they are protesting.

I see signs calling for socialism and communism as how some there want things done.

I see signs calling for expulsion of Jews, not "just Zionists" but the Jewish Bankers.

My family lived through this once already, I listened to the nightmares of what happened.

Please comprehend why I might be a bit worried.

Mindy, I don't htink you need to worry about a few fringe groups who have leeched on to the movement -- I would have expected you would know that? It's kind of like saying all xtians are like westboro....it just ain't so..

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Police fire on Occupy Oakland protesters.

Mindy, I don't htink you need to worry about a few fringe groups who have leeched on to the movement -- I would have expected you would know that? It's kind of like saying all xtians are like westboro....it just ain't so..

It's not a few fringe groups.

I have family that lives right next to Zuccotti park and has watched the protests since the first day.

It's not a few fringe groups.