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    #1

    hard time with deity concept

    hello everyone

    I am having a hard time right now, trying to define deity. I feel confortable with the concept up saying theres an invisble force thats male and female in everything. Its in the rocks trees, people, animals, stars, planets, its the one great spirit that created everything that existed on the phyiscal and astral planes. However I like the idea of the other gods and goddesses, like anubis, and Bast, etc. (I feel drawn to egytpian deities) I felt confortable with saying that this one great spirit has male/female, and those male/female has different sides/faces/personalites to them. However I sometimes will get confused into saying "well what if they are seperate dieites and are getting offended" or I say "what if we has humans made up these deities to get closer to the divine and to comprehend it" these thoughts confuse me because it goes back and forth between saying that the deities are seperate, and then saying no they are different faces of the one great spirit. I like the idea of the different gods, but also I like the idea of saying this spirit runs through everything. (I cant wrap my head around dieites being people though) this is all so confusing. Sorry if this was long. Any suggestions on what I shall do? thanks and blessed be
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    #2
    Re: hard time with deity concept

    It's possible (if occasionally difficult) to have it both ways. To use programming as an anology, if you write any particularly large or complex code then odds are that you'll create what I use to call functions but I think have gained other names. Basically, you're creating a distinct piece of code that covers a given task that you can call into your program wherever you need it. It's part of the larger program but it exists distinctly and to a degree separately waiting to be called into use by the program.

    People, objects, deities can easily be the distinct functions in the greater program that is our reality.

    Note: Mixing my analogy into all paths may get strange looks. I swing back and forth between hard polytheism, soft polytheism and "the universe has larger concerns than how you interpret divinity, worry about your conduct first and get back to theology when ypu have time". My philosophies don't always mix perfectly.
    Last edited by MaskedOne; 21 Dec 2011, 19:51.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #3
      Re: hard time with deity concept

      MaskedOne said it perfectly. I am unable to offer any wiser words, but I do have a question for the OP.

      Did you once have a clearer idea on how you viewed Deity, or is this the first time you have considered it?

      I ask because I have a similar issue right now. I plan to start a thread once I get my question clear enough in my head to ask it. Basically, I have always had quite a firm view of Deity. However, very recently, I have began to consider other themes and I've ended up all tied up in knots. I'm not too worried, this has happened to me before and will happen to me again. I think Goddess and God just don't like me to get too comfortable and set in my ways, and I wonder if this is happening to you too?

      I'm quite happy with the idea that there is one Great Spirit, which is genderless and that Goddess and God are the polar parts of this Great Spirit. This is largely because of the huge influence Wicca has had on shaping my beliefs though. I don't generally work with individual deities in the way some witches do. Like calling upon a specific deity for a specific spell. This lacks the intimacy I need in order to feel connected and empowered in the presence of Deity. I do however, have more than one FORM of Goddess and God. For example, Earth Mother and Green God, but also Triple Goddess and Horned God. When I refer to them as neither and both of these forms, I use specific names for them, taken from local deities, and perceive them in these images too. This is just to help me relate to them and this build the emotional and spiritual connection that is vital to my way of working.
      夕方に急なにわか雨は｢夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は｢朝立ち」と呼ばれないの？ ＾＾If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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        #4
        Re: hard time with deity concept

        Ill sit there at nigh pondering and saying "how do I see deity?" I think about this alot. When you mentioned about calling on other deities in spell work or something, I couldnt ponder my head around it that much. I kind of think of it like this, there is one great spirit. This spirit is male/female, or not even a gender. This being is soo great and powerful that we as the human cannot even comprehend it. How we comprehend it however is by making the different gods and goddesses. our ancestors tapped into the divine. I think mythology and things teach us things about nature and the divine. we are both in the same boat though, our ideas and beliefs change. Try and think of it like this, this one great spirit has different personalites right? it has male and female qualities. It has different sides to it, it can be protective, it loves, it has money aspects, it knows everything. The different gods are like these different personalities but they take a form on which we as humans understand. Just like us, we have different personalities, sometimes we love, we greed, we are dark, we are nice. Picture turning each and everyone of those aspects of you into a character/person like figure. Thats what the great spirit does, its one, but we as humans discoverd its different personas and make it into people. Sorry if I rambled, I just go on and off between wait what do I believe and how I view deity. I use to call the god and goddess "dear mother earth and the universe" You probally already knew all of this though, I was just demostrating to you how my brain thinks and how I ponder about this alot. Sorry if I couldnt answer your question clearly hope all goes well, blessed be

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          #5
          Re: hard time with deity concept

          Your theology, even though you are unsure about it, is in line with common Wiccan thought, so although you might not be drawn to it as a path, you might find inspiration in some Wiccan literature. Although there are so many forms of wicca, or rather, the name is now used so loosely, that reading several books can make you even more confused than you were at the start. I never realised just HOW confused the theology is, until I started to question my own. Sure I read plenty of books, but I skimmed the parts that weren't in line with my own experience of deity. I have so much more respect for the hard job self-taught pagans/witches/wiccans actually have. I honestly don't remember it being this hard when I was starting out.

          I'll go in a little deeper and explain the coven's view. Just like you, we viewed individual deities as aspects of Goddess and God, which was one of the reasons why we included a study of our own fascets of personality as part of our training. However, we didn't see the need for working with many different archetypes because we could call upon Goddess as Crone for example, who would cover a large variety of Goddess' 'fascets'.

          That said, we had one name and image for Goddess and God that we used within the coven, but in addition, everyone had their own personal archetype they identified with. In this respect, Goddess had one 'feel' to us as a group, but also put on a different face when we worked alone, a form that was personalised to the individual and helped us to feel a special, unique connection. For example, I identified with Goddess as Isis. Even when I couldn't circle with the others because I had moved to another city for university and then to Japan, I still identified with Isis and even did a Magi Degree with The Fellowship of Isis. My archetype has since changed, but a lot has changed for me. I just no longer feel connected to Goddess in her Isis form.

          I hope I haven't made things even more confused for you. As I said, I too am now at odds. I still believe much the same as I have written above, but it is the mythology of the Wheel of the Year which is throwing my theology into question. I'll be starting a thread some time in the next week I hope because my mind is frazzled.
          Last edited by Jembru; 22 Dec 2011, 01:20.
          夕方に急なにわか雨は｢夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は｢朝立ち」と呼ばれないの？ ＾＾If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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            #6
            Re: hard time with deity concept

            you have had some really great thoughts and points. It made total and perfect sense. Yes the wheel of the year is kind of confusing me as well. Like the mythology and stuff. Ill sit there and say "do I take this literally" or do I just see it as a story but a story with a message. Like the goddess giving birth to the god. I wouldnt take that literal, I would see it as, the earth is now preparing for the suns lit rays to come back to earth. Like mythology are stories but you can apply it to like nature and your self. And ya when you said the whole isis thing, that made sense. Right now I am wondering if I see the goddess as Bast. I always get bitten by cats, cats are always everywhere, I bought a cat statue not even knowing it was bast, something inside said "BUY IT!" so I did. So ya this helped actually, maybe I should try out, seeing the goddess as Bast. Not literally a cat, because the great spirit is hard to comprehend in my mind, so if I see her as the goddess bast, it will help more because a cat here on the physical is something I can relate to, because I live here. So thanks for giving me that option, I also thought about the sun god RA seeing him as one image, and one name, to connect with him. (But I wouldnt think they are actually people, just like archetypes) thanks again blessed be

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