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    #1

    Your proof

    I guess everyone here has reasons they believe what they do, something that they count as evidence for them that there is something more than the straight-up material plane. This thread is for sharing that personal proof. What experience, for you, proved to you more than anything else that there is something beyond the physical, whether we're talking about gods, spirits, or the fact that magic works?

    -Valhalla
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    #2
    Re: Your proof

    I think the point of faith is that you don't have to have proof.
    Please disregard typos in above post. I browse the web on a Nook and i suck at typing on touch screens.

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      #3
      Re: Your proof

      I have no proof that would make sense to anyone else. Most people would probably consider me a borderline schizophrenic. Gods, spirits, plants and animals talk to me. I see things other people cannot see. There is the ghost of a 17th century (the 1600s) plague doctor who came to me one night and helped me with a kidney problem. I go places sometimes that are not physical places on earth, but still maintain physicality. And there are other people who experience similar things all over the planet, and have since the dawn of recorded history. So either we're all borderline schizos or full-out schizos... or there's something more to it.
      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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        #4
        Re: Your proof

        I don't think I could say it's any one experience that "proves" to me that my Guardians are really around me and that I'm not just crackers. I've had a couple of doubt moments and whenever I ask for a sign, I've gotten one. I've felt them with me when I need them. I've had the power flick off on me when I was screwing around and not listening to them. Can any of this be explained away? I'm sure you could argue that. But whenever these things happen, they resonate with me and I know in my heart that they're exactly what I think they are.
        Army of Darkness: Guardians of the Chat

        Honorary Nord.

        Habbalah Vlogs

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          #5
          Re: Your proof

          There isn't any. I choose to place Faith in certain things. If I'm wrong, well that's mildly aggravating but I'm mostly happy with my current beliefs.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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            #6
            Re: Your proof

            Maybe instead of proof we should be sharing testimony?
            my etsy store
            My blog


            "...leave me curled up in my ball,
            surrounded by plush, downy things,
            ill prepared, but willing,
            to descend."

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              #7
              Re: Your proof

              I know many Asatru point to the fact that multiple Asatru organisations being set up around the same time as each other in many different continents is proof, but I am less convinced. The 70's was a time of many movements, with abortion, gay, minority rights being fought worldwide, as well as many religions beginning again as Christianity lost its hold. Although a nice fact, I don't see it as proof, but rather as a product of its time.

              My own proof is that I can feel the gods. When I look at the elements and I look at this world I see something there. That was when I knew I was a pagan, and that was the proof I needed. And the proof I have of the Aesir is that I felt more drawn to them than any other pagan gods, and so have accepted them as my own.

              Other's will think me crazy, but it doesn't really matter.
              "Wealth is as swift | as a winking eye
              Of friends the falsest it is."

              Havamal, 74

              "The wolf that lies idle | shall win little meat,
              Or the sleeping man success."

              Havamal, 58

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                #8
                Re: Your proof

                Not everyone believes there is something beyond the physical.
                Satan is my spirit animal

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                  #9
                  Re: Your proof

                  I don't really have proof. It's just more the way I see the world. I believe that life is sacred and that there is a touch divinity in everything around us, and in us ourselves. My proof to me is that we are here and we all depend on each other and interact with each other, and also it has a lot to do with how I experience the world, which is more personal. But that's not 'proof' to anyone else. I also believe in higher powers (gods) but that's really more of a faith thing.

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                    #10
                    Re: Your proof

                    Anything that goes on within my thoughts and emotions I can track, but not prove, since that would require evidence. I don't prefer to count something that wouldn't stand up in a lab or court, like performing a ritual and having the affect happen you wanted( correlation vs. causation, don't you know).

                    I do, however, have some interesting anecdotal stories from the past year...particularly from last fall, when a pagan family member decided to set things in motion to mirror back on another, rather emotionally toxic, family member everything she sends out verbally and in the form if prayer. I have zero proof that A led to B....however, it's been interesting, to say the least.
                    Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                      #11
                      Re: Your proof

                      It depends on exactly what you are asking (as you included gods, spirits AND magic in your quetsion). Do I have proof my deities or spirit guides are real? Not really. I have experiences that appear so real and so powerful to me, that it reinforces my faith, but I won't deny that these feelings and experiences could be coming from somewhere else, even myself. It is far too life affirming and enriching, for me to want to be without it (having spent the best part of two years without faith, I know for sure that I am one of those people who need faith to be fully whole). For this reason alone, I accept my deities regardless of real, hard proof.

                      If however, you are asking if I have proof that magic/witchcraft/divination are real, then I'd have to say, I may not have proof, but I have a lot of very good evidence. These arts can be subtle, so there is probably no one anecdote I could offer that would exemplify this. However, my experiences are cumulative and now, having been a witch for most of my adult life, I've witnessed too many successes and at times, overwhelmingly powerful effects, to reasonably put it down to coincidence anymore.
                      夕方に急なにわか雨は｢夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は｢朝立ち」と呼ばれないの？ ＾＾If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                        #12
                        Re: Your proof

                        I don't have proof to offer other people, but I do have personal proof. I suppose you would consider it UPG. Most of it is with Perun. I've had a number of dreams and rituals which were followed by a thunderstorm fairly quickly after. Coincidence is never impossible, but the timing of these events has been highly unlikely, especially considering I worship a storm deity. In fact, the very first libation I ever poured was followed by a storm in maybe two minutes. I think that's what got me started.
                        If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

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                          #13
                          Re: Your proof

                          I think I have enough 'proof' for my beliefs as any other man. Though, I find the word 'proof' to be a vague and meaningless term in regards to my spirituality/religion and theology and religion in general for that matter.

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                            #14
                            Re: Your proof

                            It really depends on what you mean by proof. And recognising that things can and do change. At once time science believed it could prove that people with MS were just making a fuss and not really in pain at all. Now it has changed its point of view. 'Proof' sounds so solid, so reassuring... if only we have 'proof' then all things will be well.

                            Actually, proof doesn't mean much at all. It can be manipulated, it can be misunderstood, it can be lies masquerading as proof. So all I will say is that I am happy with my path. It suits me. I look for 'signs' rather than proof.

                            But if you, personally, require more for yourself that's fine with me. Only don't pretend that your 'proof' is somehow superior to mine, or that my path is less genuine than your own.
                            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                              #15
                              Re: Your proof

                              Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                              It really depends on what you mean by proof. And recognising that things can and do change. At once time science believed it could prove that people with MS were just making a fuss and not really in pain at all. Now it has changed its point of view. 'Proof' sounds so solid, so reassuring... if only we have 'proof' then all things will be well.

                              Actually, proof doesn't mean much at all. It can be manipulated, it can be misunderstood, it can be lies masquerading as proof. So all I will say is that I am happy with my path. It suits me. I look for 'signs' rather than proof.

                              But if you, personally, require more for yourself that's fine with me. Only don't pretend that your 'proof' is somehow superior to mine, or that my path is less genuine than your own.
                              If I were a Theist, this would be my statement as well.

                              As an Atheist, if you don't have proof. It ain't real and I don't believe it. As soon as someone shows me proof of a God, I'll be right there. So far...a millennium later...nada.
                              Satan is my spirit animal

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