10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

[Siloh]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

It's just problematic to let emotions make sweeping generalizations and really doesn't help anyone's cause.

Oh yes. Tell it like it is. I am here to learn, not be right, and be mindful, not stubborn! I appreciate being checked.

[Miranda]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

We've supported women's right to vote much longer, but ask people if they want to see a woman president? Forget it.

I live in the state that elected the first female governor. I grew up in the state that had the second female governor (same year). I'd have voted for Hilary in a heartbeat, given the chance.

THank you for adding the explanation instead of just zapping the original post. It is always good to understand how a peron's thoughts ebb and flow as well as where they arose in the first place.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

To be honest, I was referring to the article, because this is the first I've heard about this bill. We don't really get wind of every bill that goes through in the US until it gets major publicity, especially when it's at the state level...despite what the title of the article says haha. So I kind of have to go by what's posted until it becomes a big enough issue or I find that I have enough time that I do more digging.

It's the same here, DannieMarie. I wouldn't be paying much attention to Georgia if it hadn't been posted, and if there hadn't been a similar bill in Michigan (which, naturally, I'm interested in since I get to vote here).

But, yeah, I can see how blogs like this would make Europeans think we're nuts, if they don't realize that it's 95% bull pitching.

[thalassa]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

I live in Virginia, where the transvaginal ultrasound bill was originally suggested (and passed both chambers of the state gov't before being changed to just an ultrasound)...It is exactly as bad as the article made it sound....a state mandated AND medically unnecessary procedure that physicians would be required to give (against their will) to patients (against their will) that exactly fits the state's definition of rape....AND that the patient would have to pay for, out of pocket, since insurance would not be required to do so. Now its just a state mandated AND medically unnecessary AND unfunded procedure that most patients can't afford. ...also, it requires that the images from the ultrasound be permanently retained in her medical record. Virginia's governor's law school thesis was actually on how to ban birth control (he went to Pat Robertson's college)...and he's been following that playbook since he first was elected into the state legislature.


RANT ALERT!!!!!
IMO(really honest, really blunt and really untactful): Unless the state is going to pay for my child once its born (and I use birth control and am married), get the fuck out of my uterus before it is. If you aren't a doctor, you don't have a right to tell a woman what to do about her body, period. If you aren't a woman, you don't have the right to decide what a woman should or should not be allowed to do with her body. And even if you *are* a woman, the only body that you have the right to decide to do anything with is your own. The only individuals that should be involved with the decisions that a woman makes about her body are herself, her physician, and possibly her committed partner. And regardless of their opinions and input, the decisions are still hers and only hers (just as the decision for the hubby to have a vasectomy is purely his--his schlong, his choice). Period. Full stop. If you don't like it, fund research into male pregnancy and fetal transplants.
...I might add that I, personally, do not condone abortion after the 50% viability mark (around 24 weeks), unless its to save the life of the mother (both third trimester and partial-birth abortions are already banned anyhow), but ultimately, its really none of my business what someone else does with the contents of their uterus.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

Well, you know I disagree with you on parts of what you've said, Thalassa, but I will agree that, if this is what the Georgia legislature is doing, it is wrong, and I can't condone it as a means to an end, even an end which I would prefer. I take democracy pretty seriously, and that isn't the way democracy is done.

But then... how do these people get into office, and stay in office, unless this is the way the voters want them to behave?

[Siloh]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

THank you for adding the explanation instead of just zapping the original post. It is always good to understand how a peron's thoughts ebb and flow as well as where they arose in the first place.

Yeah... I don't always agree with her, but angry Siloh is entitled to her opinion, even if calm Siloh winds up having to clean up the opinionated mess. And anyways, thanks for not being all "OMG you're making excuses STFU!!!"

If you aren't a doctor, you don't have a right to tell a woman what to do about her body, period. If you aren't a woman, you don't have the right to decide what a woman should or should not be allowed to do with her body. And even if you *are* a woman, the only body that you have the right to decide to do anything with is your own.

I love that.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

I have been sitting here, simmering and wondering whether to post or not but sod it, here goes. A slightly different take but anyway....

Earlier this year one of my daughters gave birth to a premature, stillborn baby. It was devastating for her and her partner. We all wept a lot. I still cannot get my head around this. It was a much wanted baby, and it would have been much loved and had wonderful parents.

Now.... when is a child not a child? This is what really gets my goat here. The church would have it that it is a child from conveption BUT when this little scrap was born (and it had all its fingers and toes etc.) it could not be buried in a churchyard. Their only option was either to bury it in the garden or put it in the hospital incinerator. As a result they went through dreadful heartbreak and had to make very difficult decisions at a time when they were already beside themselves with grie.f

What was noticably absent was any religious interest whatsoever in this child once it was born dead. It became an object. Something to be disposed of. There was no support, the child had no legal status, it had no death certificate because it was not 'born' and without a death certificate it could not be buried. It was like something from Kafka.

So.....*takes a deep breath and tries to hang on to what remains of my shredded temper *... I would say this to all those who believe they have any right at all to go poking around in other people's bodies:

None of you were there when my daughter might have needed you.
So bugger off.

[Caelia]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

Tylluan, it won't let me plus you, but know I want to. Many people who are pro-choice bring up this issue constantly. It is brought up more so when they talk about the state cutting programs that would help the child but force a mother to give birth. It seems they only care about the fetus until it becomes a baby. After that it's an object.

[anunitu]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

its ok Caelia,it let me send a good goodie her way.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

Thank you Caelia and Annuitu - I had to think long and hard about posting on this thread because as you can imagine this is a rather raw wound still.... I am just so angry that people only seem to care before a child is born, afterwards they don't.

Something must be wrong somewhere....

[thalassa]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

But then... how do these people get into office, and stay in office, unless this is the way the voters want them to behave?

Here in Virginia, they told people they would bring back jobs...

[anunitu]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

Yeh,a lot of that "Chicken in every pot" stuff going around

[Caelia]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

Here in Virginia, they told people they would bring back jobs...

They pulled it in Kansas too. People have been asking their folks how any of this will create jobs. I predict a lot of people won't get re-elected.

[Jembru]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

...when this little scrap was born (and it had all its fingers and toes etc.) it could not be buried in a churchyard. Their only option was either to bury it in the garden or put it in the hospital incinerator.

OMG, That was difficult even to read! Honestly, I feel such sadness from this story and can feel my eyes welling up. I'm horrified that your daughter couldn't bury this infant. Who decides that a premature baby can't be buried in a Churchyard? The Church itself? Or some legal body? If the former, then how on Earth can they justify claiming to be 'pro life'?

I'm so sorry for your loss. I remember you posting about this, but not in any great detail, when it first happened.

As for my own opinion on all of this. It's difficult to really know how I feel until I have children of my own, but at the moment, I agree with those who feel that the woman carrying the baby should have the right to choose.

I'd like to tell my boyfriend's tale here, but it is not mine to tell and is very personal. All I'll say is, when a woman doesn't want the baby, and lacks even the most basic of parenting skills, it doesn't always work out well for the child.

[thalassa]

Re: 10 Reasons the Rest of the World Thinks the U.S. Is Nuts

OMG, That was difficult even to read! Honestly, I feel such sadness from this story and can feel my eyes welling up. I'm horrified that your daughter couldn't bury this infant. Who decides that a premature baby can't be buried in a Churchyard? The Church itself? Or some legal body? If the former, then how on Earth can they justify claiming to be 'pro life'?

Really, it wasn't all that long ago that even unbaptized infants couldn't be buried in a Catholic cemetery...

When its a stillbirth (as my first pregnancy was, at 26 weeks), its not medically or legally considered a person (and the parents aren't even treated as parents in our case, by hospital staff). Here, we could have buried the fetus (the baby has to breathe to be entitled to a birth or death certificate), but it was an expense we couldn't afford at the time (but most cemeteries here aren't owned by religious organizations)...and since a fetus is classified as medical waste, taking it home to bury it ourselves wasn't an option, so after autopsy, she was cremated (the hospital we were at at least sends stillbirths to a crematorium rather than to the hospital's incinerator) in a batch with other stillbirths (they usually wait until they have about 10 or so).