Ask a Pro Life Pagan

[B. de Corbin]

Yes, we exist.

Go ahead and ask.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Pro-life in this instance meaning strictly anti-abortion or anti-abortion and anti-contraceptive?

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Pro-life in this instance meaning strictly anti-abortion or anti-abortion and anti-contraceptive?

Good question! Thanks for asking.

The answer is complicated... No, not really.

If Sammy Sperm and Edna Egg don't go to the same barn dance, there is no life produced, so no problem. I guess that, at this point, for the record, I will also say oral, anal, and air launches cause no problems, for the same reason. Procreation is one reason to have sex, but just plain having fun is also a damned good reason to have sex.

In simple form, I, personally, think contraceptives are the cat's pajamas. I decorate my Christmas tree with colorful streamers of multicolored, multitextured rubbers. Uhm... Fresh ones, of course. If there is anybody out there not having sex because they can't afford contraceptives, drop me a PM. I got rubbers and vaggi suppositories that K'roe and I don't use anymore (her Easter basket is empty). I'll send them to you....

Just for the record, though, there are pagans who are against birth control for various reasons. I don't know if you want a general over view of the thinking?

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

I'm not against other people using birth control, but the only contraceptive -I'll- touch is the condom. I am, however, pro-choice.

[Siloh]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Do you think that if pro-life pagans with prominence in the public eye (you know they must be out there) came forward to speak about these issues, the conservative right would have difficulty coping with the implications of people standing behind their cause who aren't religiously what that party expects from its supporters?

[MaskedOne]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Hard to predict.

[anunitu]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

One thing I could never understand with this issue is it seems that pro life people also tend to be pro death penalty,and pro choice people seem to be anti-death penalty. This a general feeling and would not always be true for all pro life or pro choice people. It just seems that the pro life depends on whose life.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Why are you pro-life, and how do you deal with situations where someone was raped, and fertilization took place? Do you have exceptions to your rule? And at what point do you consider it to be a living human? Embryo-contact?

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Do you think that if pro-life pagans with prominence in the public eye (you know they must be out there) came forward to speak about these issues, the conservative right would have difficulty coping with the implications of people standing behind their cause who aren't religiously what that party expects from its supporters?

Hmm...

Well, here's what I think. I do not believe that the right wing conservative Christians who are most prominently in the public eye regarding this issue want anything to do with pagans, even as uneasy bedfellows united in a common cause - there are too many fundamental differences in world view.

I'll go a bit further and also say that pro life pagans don't want to get into bed with them, either. The differences between the two groups is huge and fundamental - the right wing conservatives wrap a whole lot more into the issue that most pagans (although there are extremely conservative pagans) do.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

One thing I could never understand with this issue is it seems that pro life people also tend to be pro death penalty,and pro choice people seem to be anti-death penalty. This a general feeling and would not always be true for all pro life or pro choice people. It just seems that the pro life depends on whose life.

Yeah, there are exceptions, Annitu. I am both pro-choice AND pro-death penalty.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

One thing I could never understand with this issue is it seems that pro life people also tend to be pro death penalty,and pro choice people seem to be anti-death penalty. This a general feeling and would not always be true for all pro life or pro choice people. It just seems that the pro life depends on whose life.

That isn't a particularly hard distinction. Pro-Life generally assumes the fetus is an infant. Humanity in general is protective of infants. Hell, hardened criminals that won't bat an eye at murder have been known to assassinate child molesters in prison. By contrast, if you're eligible for a death penalty than 12 of your peers cannot find reasonable doubt that you murdered another human being in cold blood or that you knowingly and willingly gave assistance to a foreign power that intends to harm your country of residence*. Most human beings don't have any desire to provide equivalent rights to infants and to murderers.



*There are probably one or two other crimes that earn it but death penalties don't get handed out easily.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Why are you pro-life, and how do you deal with situations where someone was raped, and fertilization took place? Do you have exceptions to your rule? And at what point do you consider it to be a living human? Embryo-contact?

Why am I pro life? I'll give you two short reasons.
A. I have devoted most of my life working with the people that pro choice people would rather had not been born. Despite all their problems (the main one of which is being unwanted by our "society") I like them, and am glad that they were born.

B. it seems like an enormously bad idea to encourage humans to engage in a selective breeding program, where they can pick the keepers out of their own litters, and null their own culls. I know too many people who would have never been born if their parents had known what they were getting, and if the ability to get rid of "it" had been socially acceptable. These are people like girls, whose parents wanted a boy (gendercide), gay people, and the other assorted weirdos, whom I happen to like. As the human genome is figured out, there will be all kinds of things that can be tested for...

When is it human? When the egg is fertilized.

What about rape (and incest. you forgot incest...)? My preference is that a child not be executed for a crime committed by his/her father. However, this is such an unpleasant situation that I personally feel exceptions should be made. This accounts for less than 1% of all abortions performed in the U.S. If the other 99% stop, I'll consider it again. At that point, there may be another option, but as it stands now, I'm more than happy to make the exception.

[anunitu]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

My own concern with the death penalty stems from the cases where someone facing death is proven innocent at the last moment. I have no problem if indeed the person in question is guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are also cases where the law just wants someone to be guilty just to close the case,and perhaps make political points in the process.

I have deviated from the main point of this thread,and if it needs to be started in another thread,so be it.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

Why am I pro life? I'll give you two short reasons.
A. I have devoted most of my life working with the people that pro choice people would rather had not been born. Despite all their problems (the main one of which is being unwanted by our "society") I like them, and am glad that they were born.

Far enough. I've both met and dated people whose parents probably wished they didn't exist.

B. it seems like an enormously bad idea to encourage humans to engage in a selective breeding program, where they can pick the keepers out of their own litters, and null their own culls. I know too many people who would have never been born if their parents had known what they were getting, and if the ability to get rid of "it" had been socially acceptable. These are people like girls, whose parents wanted a boy (gendercide), gay people, and the other assorted weirdos, whom I happen to like. As the human genome is figured out, there will be all kinds of things that can be tested for...

Issue with this. Why is it bad for humans to do it, when animals do it all the time? Hamsters eat their young, preying mantis eats its mate, etc. I suppose you could point out that the Amazons did it, but well...they didn't really turn out for the best. I agree with you insomuch as I rather like gays, the weirdos, etc. Where we have to agree to disagree is that I don't think a human is human until birth...maaaaybe third trimester. You know, when it gets eyes and a beating heart, and fingers and toes, and genitals and shit.

What about rape (and incest. you forgot incest...)? My preference is that a child not be executed for a crime committed by his/her father. However, this is such an unpleasant situation that I personally feel exceptions should be made. This accounts for less than 1% of all abortions performed in the U.S. If the other 99% stop, I'll consider it again. At that point, there may be another option, but as it stands now, I'm more than happy to make the exception.

You're right. I did forget about incest. I can understand your point here, with the child not being to blame, but ultimately, it's the life of the mother which is more important at the point of conception. If a mother can't deal with carrying the baby of something which harmed her, then...at least you're willing to make exceptions.

I'm sorry to get so snarky about this, by the way - I'm generally pretty apathetic towards almost every topic posted on this forum, but...I just don't understand pro-life, and I don't think I ever will. I know if I were to become impregnated, I am almost certain I would abort, but I feel as a general whole that the earth is overpopulated and we don't really need to be breeding anymore, anyhow. At least not nearly as much. But yeah. I made my issue, and I think I might back out of this now, before I start to share less than PC views on the world.

[Caelia]

Re: Ask a Pro Life Pagan

1. Statistically the profile of a woman most likely to have an abortion is an impoverished woman aged between 25-35 who already has children (yeah, I'm leaving out race here, but I'll get to that one later). With the issue of adoption being costly or the lack of agencies what other programs do you believe would help a woman if abortion or adoption isn't an option?

2. There have been more issues of trying to legislate spontaneous abortion. Since in most cases even doctors can't explain why a woman lost her child in those instances do you feel a legal investigation is warranted?

3. In my own research of trying to understand opposing viewpoints it seems that many people who are pro-life feel they are speaking for the unborn. Since a fetus is also lacking in cognitive capabilities how does this factor into your viewpoint, if at all? Why just the unborn?

4. In the case of where a fetus is endangering the life of a woman is abortion OK since the odds of the surviving without the mother are statistically against the fetus?

I know some of these are loaded, but I just don't have a better way to word it right now. I also have more questions but I don't want you to feel any more overwhelmed than you might already.