Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

    I haven't been here in a hot minute and there's a reason for that. I'm a member of a yahoo group that has a member that recently decided to do an experiment and create a new church. There was quite a bit of interest and within a month, we had a basic list of Ten Principles that would from the basis of this new tradition.

    The two co-founders are coming from a Collyridian/Aristasian/Deanic/Filianic tradition and they decided that, since the tradition is geared towards Goddess-worship and towards females, they would simply take the same tradition and tack on the male principle as well for those that, while specifically honoring the Mother, also believed in the God.

    The group took the initial list of Ten Principles, at that time very slanted towards the Feminine Principle, and refashioned it into something more balanced to both parties. There would be a place for God-worshipers, a place for Goddess-worshipers, and a place for those called to worship both. A vote is taken on the Final Draft, it's unanimous, and there you go.

    A week later, one of the founders (who voted to ratify) decided that he didn't like the new Ten Principles because he wanted the church to be more Goddess-based. This caused a big row because they'd already been voted on and some of us thought that it wasn't fair that one person could undo a council vote and that it wasn't fair to hold one sex higher than the other.

    Needless to say, one of us got removed from the group. The other founder sent out a big, long email stating why this member had been removed and that it was necessary (translation: I felt my power-base was threatened, so I decided to flex).

    I decided to go ahead and leave the group.

    So, I helped found a new tradition, watched it schism, and ultimately left it, all within a month or so.

    So what did you do this month?
    There once was a man who said though,
    It seems that I know that I know,
    What I'd like to see,
    Is the I that knows me,
    When I know that I know that I know.

    #2
    Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

    Also, mods, feel free to move this to something more appropriate. I was going to segue into me contemplating my own personal theology but I think I may make a separate thread on it, since the title wouldn't be appropriate for forum searches.
    There once was a man who said though,
    It seems that I know that I know,
    What I'd like to see,
    Is the I that knows me,
    When I know that I know that I know.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

      I've seen this happen a few times when people are attempting to found covens. I was once involved in such a project, but I didn't leave because of theological differences. I left because the member who wished to assign herself as HPS, was clearly on an ego trip. Some of my ex coven members, showed an interest in being a part of it, but she denied them membership, against the wishes of her HP, because in her words, 'they've all been witches a lot longer than I have so would respect one another more than they respect me'. The HP passed this quote on to me, and although I did sympathise with her position, I packed up and left. In our coven, it typically took 6 years or more to reach the level of HPS and this lady had only been a 'book witch' for about a year and a half. So she probably would have struggled to be respected as some kind of elder. Then again, I puzzled over how or why ANYONE would respect this woman as a HPS.
      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

      Comment


        #4
        Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

        Sounds like you have had a very interesting time Gabriel! Im sorry it didn't work out, but maybe that was for the best And yes i totally agree on the balance between god and goddess issue going around that has materialised here. And i don't think that email was a good idea, it did sound like they were just reinforming the "flock"that THEY were "alpha" so don't get any ideas!
        And jembru that is very interesting. I have been a witch for about the same length of time as this "HPS" and in my group of about 5 people i take that HPS ROLL but i am in no way a HPS im not fooling myself im just in the leader position because the others believed i was the most confident and could perform rituals with more confidence. But we have decided if any body else comes to our group who is more skilled than me we will get to know them for a while then they will join me in ritual then i will step down if its a woman, if it is a man however he will merely join me in ritual so we have a balance. Just to make sure we are not giving that privelage to a complete stranger the getting to know them part is very importent to us. But yes if your "HPS" welcomed the newcomers into the group politely she should have excepted the fact they may be better than her and in doing so, if it was better for the group, step down from her position graciously. Its what i would have done anyway.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

          Well, MischievousWitch, within the context of ones coven, anyone CAN be HPS, if they are able (and I've known cases where the HPS was not the most knowledgeable, but had the best leading skills). My coven believed that degrees if initiation and rank were valid only within the context of ones coven. No one outside of our coven even knew who the HPS was, unless they happened to ask. She NEVER, introduced herself as a high priestess, and although I may have mentioned my degree here (although can't think of a time when I have), I wouldn't dream of claiming to be anything more than anyone else, based on my experience within that coven. Some groups are very laid back, some are very rigid, so no two HP/HPSs are going to be the same level.

          The issue then, was simply that we had fairly detailed criterior for each degree, and this lady didn't tick all the boxes of First, so it would be hard to take her seriously. She also lied about lineage (she didn't realise I was friends with the Gardnarian Wiccan she claimed had initiated her), told everyone she was the 'leader' of the moot I had started and been organiser of for many years (she offered to run the website for me and I foolishly agreed.. she put herself down as the leader and I just couldn't be bothered with the drama. I quit the moot and apparently it went downhill very rapidly and most members stopped attending).

          Ego trips are usually harmless and eventually smack the person in the face, but I do feel strongly that a bad High Priest/ess can be harmful to the development and even mental health of the coven's members, not to mention add to the already flakey reputation of Wicca.
          夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

            mm grown up make believe gone amiss. I say nap time for all!
            Satan is my spirit animal

            Comment


              #7
              Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

              I actually don't think that's the shortest time frame for a doctrinal schism Gabriel, if I remember correctly (though I don't recall the exact name--its long) there are two Christian denominations with the *exact* same name that are *not* the same denomination, but rather founded by the same two men that had a falling out about some part of their doctrine that caused their congregation to split about a week after it elected them leader or some such!
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                Re: I guess I'll just have to make my own (or, where has Gabriel been?)

                Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                I actually don't think that's the shortest time frame for a doctrinal schism Gabriel, if I remember correctly (though I don't recall the exact name--its long) there are two Christian denominations with the *exact* same name that are *not* the same denomination, but rather founded by the same two men that had a falling out about some part of their doctrine that caused their congregation to split about a week after it elected them leader or some such!
                Wow. I thought we were moving on along but that's even worse.

                It's unfortunate. The Ten Points that we agreed upon were really quite good.

                The first thought that had crossed my mind was, "Is this what the Council of Nicaea was like?" I almost guarantee it was.
                There once was a man who said though,
                It seems that I know that I know,
                What I'd like to see,
                Is the I that knows me,
                When I know that I know that I know.

                Comment

                Working...
                X