Vanatru Q&A

[Lokabrenna]

So, I'm under the impression that I'm the only Vanatruar here (at least, for the moment). Yes, despite the handle, I'm not a Lokean (though I have friends who are) and so, in the spirit of sharing information (and because I love answering questions about my tradition) I was wondering if anyone had any questions for me?

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

What is vanatru?

[Lokabrenna]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

What is vanatru?

In a nutshell, Vanatru is a neologism denoting someone who exclusively (or primary) worships the Norse deities who are collectively known as "the Vanir" (Freyja, Freyr, Njord, and sometimes Nerthus) as well as those who are Vanir by marriage or adoption, and even deities who are speculated to be Vanir.

I should also note that some Vanatruar consider themselves to be reconstructionists, others (including myself) do not. Whether there is anything to "reconstruct" is up for debate.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

Where do you get your information for Vanir?

[Lokabrenna]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

Where do you get your information for Vanir?

The same places your average Heathen gets their info from: the Eddas and sagas, UPG/PCPG, scholarship and academia, folk customs/folklore, archaeology. I personally place slightly more emphasis on UPG than lore, but there are plenty of lorehounds (Svartesol/Siggy is one of them) in the tradition as well.

[Dez]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

There's been some discussion around here before about the role of Nerthus. I know that some see her as a goddess, others as originally being the same as Njord(possibly one of those historic cases where a deity changed gender as time passed, similar to Guan Yin in Buddhism). Either way, few seem to recognize her unless they follow a more Vanic path. What is your take on that issue?

Also, do you consider other less-known Germanic gods like Frau Holda to fall under the Vanic side of the equation? If so, who else do you speculate to be Vanir(like you said above)?

[Lokabrenna]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

There's been some discussion around here before about the role of Nerthus. I know that some see her as a goddess, others as originally being the same as Njord(possibly one of those historic cases where a deity changed gender as time passed, similar to Guan Yin in Buddhism). Either way, few seem to recognize her unless they follow a more Vanic path. What is your take on that issue?

It varies, but the consensus is that even if they were the same deity, they diverged enough to be honoured as separate deities today. The same sort of thing happened to Freyja and Frigga, and most honour them as separate deities.

Also, do you consider other less-known Germanic gods like Frau Holda to fall under the Vanic side of the equation? If so, who else do you speculate to be Vanir(like you said above)?

Yes, the other deities listed in Visions of Vanaheim as possible Vanir, or at least strongly connected to the Vanir, are:

Byggvir and Beyla (Freyr's servants)
Dagr and Nott (Not Vanir themselves, but important to daily cycles)
Eir
Frodi
Gerda
Gullveig (some see her as a jotun, though)
Herne
Holda
Idunna
Nehelennia
Sif
Skadhi
Sunna and Mani (again, not Vanir, but important to the seasonal cycles)
Ullr
Wayland

Personally, I can see how some of them could be seen as "Vanic" even if they weren't originally part of the Vanir, but others I just don't know that much about to tell, not all Vanatruar honour all of them, obviously.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

I am trying my best but I am not aware of your sources listed where it states any individual is Vanir, as for your list it is made up of lesser known gods, minor servants and well whatever else. UPG is not a source that is credible, PCPG I do not know what that is.

Would you mind answering the question with your sources listed in Lore, Eddas, sagas, academia, scholorship, folk customs and archeology?

If that is possible it would lead to a better debate.

[Lokabrenna]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

I am trying my best but I am not aware of your sources listed where it states any individual is Vanir, as for your list it is made up of lesser known gods, minor servants and well whatever else. UPG is not a source that is credible, PCPG I do not know what that is.

Would you mind answering the question with your sources listed in Lore, Eddas, sagas, academia, scholorship, folk customs and archeology?

If that is possible it would lead to a better debate.

PCPG is "Peer Corroborated Personal Gnosis" (sometimes called SPG or "Shared Personal Gnosis") that is, UPG that several people have independently reported. For instance, that Freyja likes strawberries. I've only met a few people who report that Freyja doesn't like strawberries.

As for your second point, I honestly can't name every source by name, because I use the lore more as a "jumping off point" than as the be all and end all of my practice. The lore doesn't make a good Bible, and I honestly have no interest in treating it like one. The list of deities I posted is Svartesol's, not mine, and to be honest, a lot of them are on there purely because of her UPG (which I don't necessarily agree with), and technically, this isn't a debate, it's Q&A, so if you want to debate the finer points of lore, I'd suggest starting a new thread.

Sorry to sound dismissive, but I honestly don't have the time or the desire to regurgitate a complete list of sources (chapter and verse, plz) with citations and footnotes, a bibliography, and an index.

[Dez]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

If that is possible it would lead to a better debate.

No debate.

Please remember that this is a Q&A thread, and this falls under a unique set of rules for the forum. Lokabrenna was kind enough to share information on her personal beliefs, as well as those of others who follow a similar path. As with ALL Q&A threads, those beliefs are not open to critique, condemnation, or debate.

If you wish to start a thread elsewhere, such as the debate section, Gunnarr, and see if anyone is interested, you are welcome to do so.

[Wednesday]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

Gunnar, the Aesir mostly denote the construct of politico-religious ruling powers of the Icelandic culture. You can assume anyone outside of the battle of Ragnarok isn't Aesir, and if they aren't present , and not Jotun, the only other divine group that they can fall in is Vanir ( that we know of so far). While not spelled out specifically, it's an educated guess that can find support in the materials. RMN wrote something on it if you'd like to read more.

Additionally, the distinction between the Vanir, Aesir, Jotun is an Icelandic construct that (as far as we know) wasn't present in other heathen regions. Since heathenry, at its heart, is a homegrown folk tradition (not pangermanic universal), there isn't anything contrary to reconstructionism in seeing the traits of the Vanir reflected in Nerthus, Hulda etc. Especially if that's the immediate influence you see present in your immediate life. Heathenry isn't a religion, its just "what we do." (We being anyone's family/tribe/kindred).

Hope this wasn't too OT from q&a.

[Ula]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

So, I'm under the impression that I'm the only Vanatruar here (at least, for the moment). Yes, despite the handle, I'm not a Lokean (though I have friends who are) and so, in the spirit of sharing information (and because I love answering questions about my tradition) I was wondering if anyone had any questions for me?

I consider myself one. Holda is my matron. I don't have issues with the Aesir gods I just find my interests are based more in that area.

[doctrellor]

Re: Vanatru Q&A

So, I'm under the impression that I'm the only Vanatruar here (at least, for the moment). Yes, despite the handle, I'm not a Lokean (though I have friends who are) and so, in the spirit of sharing information (and because I love answering questions about my tradition) I was wondering if anyone had any questions for me?

I'm also here -- I deal with Freya, and the sun (Sunna) & her brother the Moon (Mani). Being more Shamanic than most Heathens, I deal with loads of the vaettr, of varying size and power. There are some Vanatru around, we're just more quiet generally

- - - Updated - - -

I took the 'What type of Heathen are you" test -- sadly the thread was closed, so I figured on posting here -- and continue the discussion on Vanatru.

Working with the Vaettr/Disr -- I am out in the marshes and nature all the time, and being around this farming community -- the spirits, ancestors and Vanir come alive. With harvests, blots, the various spirits and ancestors -- every day is special, not just rituals or blots .. So I deal with very strong nature concepts, the seasons, weather, animal/family fertility/prosperity, the Sun, the Moon, the Earth, Day & Night, Crops, Harvests, Planting time, family gatherings -- all things an agricultural society deals with on a daily basis .. and so that comes out in who I deal with and who I worship as well.

You Scored as TraditionalistYou are a Traditionalist Heathen. More flexible than a Reconstructionist, you are likely to admit that innovation is sometimes necessary in your religion--yet you draw the line at political correctness, trendiness, or other changes made for their own sake.




Traditionalist


80%


Modernist


50%


Reconstructionist


45%


Eclectic


45%


Fake Heathen


15%


Non-Heathen


10%