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**thalassa** · 03 May 2012, 16:20

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

I'm...seriously disturbed on so many levels.

1) I have to agree with the commenter on the article thingy that said its like Japanese blackface...which creeps me out
2) WTF parent lets their underage kid look like a pedophile's wet dream? I'm all for letting youth express themselves...but theres a freaking line!
3) The voice. I DON'T EVEN LET MY 5 YEAR OLD TALK LIKE THAT (and I'm talking tone of voice as well as the grammar)

**Simon Slade** · 03 May 2012, 16:40

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Most people are trying to look like something they're not. And anyone who wears make-up, works out for a body style, gets tattoos, or buys specific clothing can not deny that. This girls ideal look is a little strange, yes. But she can do whatever she wants. As long as it's not hurting me, I don't care. And as long as it's not intrinsically hurting her, I don't think her parents are in the wrong. It's her image.

**Medusa** · 03 May 2012, 20:21

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

I think her voice is similar to her mother's. I also watched an interview with her and her mom. I'm thinking Scandinavian or something like that? I get she likes her Japanese culture lessons. There's another girl called Minxy on youtube who is also in love with Japanese culture and passes on what she learns. But it's obvious there is something going on with this Angelic chic. Now is it dangerous? Well my mom wouldn't let me dress up like Madonna or wear heavy makeup when I was 14. I had boundaries with my sexuality until I could handle those on my own. Of course now there is the internet. So kids get away with alot more without parents knowing any of it. Except...her mother does know it. And I seriously hope she gives her daughter a talk about how men in the real world will take her lolita look and EXACTLY where that phrase comes from. It's cool to cosplay. Sure. But if you are going to do something that is so overtly sexual, how's about you wait till you are an adult?

**Ophidia** · 03 May 2012, 23:15

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

The 'Japanese blackface' look is 'ganguro', which is a subculture of Japanese fashion, kind of like the Harajuku girls. Some ganguro girls look like Jersey Shore wanna-bes, others take it to extremes. http://www.gojapango.com/fashion/ganguro.html I think it's a little silly, but it doesn't seem to be as overtly sexualized as the loli looks this VenusAngelic tries for.

I get a bit more of a visceral reaction to her because she looks a lot like my youngest niece at that age. My youngest niece dressed like a tomboy most of her childhood & has grown up to be a gogo dancer. This girl may settle down & become a corporate banker. You can't tell. I just hope her mom watches out for her personal safety.

**Jembru** · 04 May 2012, 00:42

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Her age is the only thing that bothers me. The rest is harmless. If she walked down the street dressed like that (gosh, I have.. but then, I am 29!), I don't think it would seem so provocative, but flaunting around in videos is just, as people have said, not really age appropriate. I even get a little uncomfortable when people post photos of their kids on forums for anyone to see. I wanted to share photos of the maypole dancing with PF, but I decided against it because the dancers were all children and it just felt wrong.

I have a German friend I met in Augsburg, who spent 6 months in Edinburgh while at Uni. He has become OBSESSED with Scotland. He goes to bars wearing his kilt, is learning to play the Scottish horn (is that the right name?) and even speaks English in his best Scottish accent along with all the slang he has picked up! I think he's adorable and I love that he is following his passion and expressing himself in a way that makes him feel good about himself. It's not WORLDS appart from what Venus is doing, but somehow seems less weird to people (but again, he is in his 20s and he KNOWS we're gonna try to look up his kilt!).

If she were older, I'd applaud Venus's courage. Although I worry that she seems to believe she is being 'Japanese' (her comments about being raise Japanese). Real life is NOTHING like anime. The whole point of it is escapism, it's how the Japanese wish they could speak and act. If anything, we in the West behave more like the characters in anime than the Japanese do. Gaijin seem to look at Harajuku fashion and think Japan is wild and one can dress how they like. Nope.. even THAT is done in an orderly fashion. It is somewhat expected that a student of a certain age, will experiment and follow these crazy trends, but come the final year of Uni, when the students start partaking in job interviews, the dye comes out and the suits go on and they start the rest of their adult life as one of the crowd. Those of you familiar with Japanese culture may have come across the popular saying 'Deru kui wa utareru' (the stake that sticks up will be hammered down), which is basically how Japanese culture works: don't stand out, don't draw attention to yourself, keep your head down and do what everyone else is doing.

I am fully aware that dressing as I do may be inspired by the fashions I experienced out there, but that at 29 years old, there is NOTHING authentically Japanese about dressing as I do! Indeed, it is thanks to being Western, that I feel free of judgement enough to do this. I also, never ever, either while living there, or returning for visits, saw a single Japanese girl behave like Venus. I am not saying they don't, and I admit that even adult Japanese women are super sweet (brings to mind what Dez said about Mormon females: always retaining that 'sweetness'), but I sure never saw anything like Venus.

**thalassa** · 04 May 2012, 01:54

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Originally posted by perzephone View Post

The 'Japanese blackface' look is 'ganguro', which is a subculture of Japanese fashion, kind of like the Harajuku girls.

I meant more like she's a caricature of a caricature...which is bothersome to me since she seems not to realize that. I have friends that are into anime, that have been stationed in Japan, that are from Japan (military brats), etc...and even the ones that are into this...aren't deluding themselves about it...if that makes sense?

**Jembru** · 04 May 2012, 05:11

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Originally posted by thalassa View Post

I meant more like she's a caricature of a caricature...which is bothersome to me since she seems not to realize that. I have friends that are into anime, that have been stationed in Japan, that are from Japan (military brats), etc...and even the ones that are into this...aren't deluding themselves about it...if that makes sense?

A much more conscise wording of what I was trying to say in my third paragraph above. I waffle so much when I am sleepy, but this is also my concern. It isn't hurting anyone so I find it more irritating than worrying though. She seems (and her mother too), to honesly think this is how Japanese people act. It's kind of the equivalent of a Japanese guy talking and dressing like Elmer Fudd and thinking that, because he sleeps on a bed and eats pancakes for breakfast, he is American!

**Ophidia** · 04 May 2012, 16:14

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Originally posted by thalassa View Post

I meant more like she's a caricature of a caricature...which is bothersome to me since she seems not to realize that. I have friends that are into anime, that have been stationed in Japan, that are from Japan (military brats), etc...and even the ones that are into this...aren't deluding themselves about it...if that makes sense?

Ah, yeah. The mindset's surprisingly common, though, at least here in the States. There's this sort of 'Japanophile' cultural wave going on. One of my friends actually makes decent money designing & selling cosplay costumes (and probably some 'furries' thrown in for good measure).

I've had to deal with a smidge of this with my husband (and some of his friends). He's been into anime & manga for quite a few years, before that it was all 'samurai code' and had built up this idealized version of Japan in his head. We've got Japanese acquaintances & they finally broke it all down for him - Japan has evolved considerably since the feudal ages, grown-ups don't get the same kind of privileges that kids do, and when the kids want to act out, they go a few towns over to play dress-up (if their parents will allow them to in the first place). People don't have sex in public. And while kids may dress up like their favorite anime characters, 'cosplay' isn't a valid lifestyle choice - it's an occasional weekend out with friends. My main concern w/my husband & his friends was their age - they were all in their mid-20s. If a kid wants to be culturally insensitive, they'll learn differently. If a grown person gets sucked into this kind of thing it can become a social nightmare - especially in a multi-cultural tourism spot like Las Vegas. People lose their jobs for unintentionally insulting the cultures of tourists.

**Corvus** · 04 May 2012, 16:53

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

I want to vomit... That can't possibly be her natural voice. Everything about this girl is fake. Fake voice, fake face, fake personality. Shes at the age where kids discover their self image and unfortunately this is what she wants to be...
Since her mother is doing crap the only hope is that she'll grow out of it or progress to something less nauseating. I'm all for expressing oneself but she looks like a doll and a blow up doll at that, what kind of people does she think watches her videos? I highly doubt it's the audience she thinks it is.
I'm willing to believe something has happened to her (be it abuse, isolation by parents or a simple lack of social skills) that has made her try to make herself into this thing that she's idealized because she thinks her life would be better.
All my opinion.

**Jembru** · 04 May 2012, 17:30

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

I changed my opinion on this girl when I saw her 'music video'. Thanks for the cool makeup tips Venus, but seriously, acting like that at your age is really not acceptable. Your style COULD have worked, but you blew it when you behaved so provocatively. Shame on you.

Originally posted by perzephone View Post

Ah, yeah. The mindset's surprisingly common, though, at least here in the States. There's this sort of 'Japanophile' cultural wave going on. One of my friends actually makes decent money designing & selling cosplay costumes (and probably some 'furries' thrown in for good measure).

I've had to deal with a smidge of this with my husband (and some of his friends). He's been into anime & manga for quite a few years, before that it was all 'samurai code' and had built up this idealized version of Japan in his head. We've got Japanese acquaintances & they finally broke it all down for him - Japan has evolved considerably since the feudal ages, grown-ups don't get the same kind of privileges that kids do, and when the kids want to act out, they go a few towns over to play dress-up (if their parents will allow them to in the first place). People don't have sex in public. And while kids may dress up like their favorite anime characters, 'cosplay' isn't a valid lifestyle choice - it's an occasional weekend out with friends. My main concern w/my husband & his friends was their age - they were all in their mid-20s. If a kid wants to be culturally insensitive, they'll learn differently. If a grown person gets sucked into this kind of thing it can become a social nightmare - especially in a multi-cultural tourism spot like Las Vegas. People lose their jobs for unintentionally insulting the cultures of tourists.

I've never even considered it as racism, but then there appears to be fewer British born Japanese than American born Japanese, so I only really have native Japanese folk to go off. A Japanese person growing up in a Western society may well feel very differently. None of my Japanese friends find the Western interest in their culture to be offensive, just very funny! A lot of my colleagues in Japan were anime fanatics (and mostly male, I was one of only 3 females in a 32 staff workforce), and the Japanese girls swarmed around them like moths to a flame.

I really know nothing of these subcultures in the West though. My German ex was working on a Yoshimitsu cosplay outfit, although he planned to sell it. I'd never heard of cosplay before I met him (yup, even when living in Japan, I was oblivious to all of this, besides what I saw in Yoyogi park). Like I say, my dress is inspired by some of the fashions I saw out there, but it is very toned down (usually) and most people describe my style as 'continental' for some reason. Apparently I look more french than Japanese! But that's quite a compliment really.

My boyfriend likes anime, and is gradually educating me in its ways, but is way too much of an 'English gent' to get carried away with such nonesense as cosplay.

I have been accused of being a weeabo (i don't even know what this word actually implies), based soley on the fact that I love the language, but I am just a linguistics fanatic who refuses to settle for 'a smattering' of a language, and you simply can't master a language unless you throw yourself in it up to the neck. I DO collect Sanrio stuff and I DO wear cat years though and have done for.. gosh, years.. even before I learnt it was an anime thing. I just saw them in Clares (or a shop of that type), and thought it was a great idea. I also wore cat collars as bracelets in High School, when I couldn't even point to Japan on a map never mind tell you what manga was. (Hides her black and white 'alice in wonderland' dress behind her back...). There really is no lable that could describe what I am besides 'kiddult'.

**Ophidia** · 04 May 2012, 18:42

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Originally posted by Jembru View Post

I've never even considered it as racism, but then there appears to be fewer British born Japanese than American born Japanese, so I only really have native Japanese folk to go off. A Japanese person growing up in a Western society may well feel very differently. None of my Japanese friends find the Western interest in their culture to be offensive, just very funny! A lot of my colleagues in Japan were anime fanatics (and mostly male, I was one of only 3 females in a 32 staff workforce), and the Japanese girls swarmed around them like moths to a flame.

Here, it's one thing to work at a place like Hot Topic, or a place that caters to emokids or teens who go to raves, or a comic book shop... and another to work at a major hotel/casino/resort. I know it's stereotyping in the other direction - the casinos/hotels out here aren't big on freely expressing yourself, which is why we all wear uniforms & aren't allowed to have non-natural hair colors or facial piercings or visible tattoos. It doesn't matter how skilled you are, or how personable you are, if you look even a tiny bit non-conservative, you won't get hired by the majority of companies out here.

We've got one lead clerk who has gotten into trouble for being 'too familiar' with Asian guests. They aren't kids or teenagers checking in, or even young partying adults, they are business people here to hopefully spend a decent amount of money. You have to treat business guests a certain way, and asking them a string of questions about Sailor Moon & Pokemon is not it. The only saving grace for said lead clerk & his job has been the Americans with Disabilities Act - he's got issues.

A weeaboo (or Wapanese - 'wanna-be Japanese') is someone who desperately wants to be Japanese, to the point of denigrating their own culture in favor of their idealized version of Japan (like aforementioned lead clerk - he hates being black, and American). My husband wasn't quite a weeaboo (being quite proud of being Hungarian and only wanting to visit Japan). As far as I know, weeaboo is something that originated on 4chan, and unless you've been a frequenter of 4chan & various 4chan-inspired sites, you probably won't recognize it or care about it. If anyone calls you a weeaboo, just rest peacefully secure in the knowledge that you may or may not be a weeaboo, but they hang out on 4chan...

**Jembru** · 05 May 2012, 00:32

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

But why 'weeaboo'? I still don't get it.

It was 5 or 6 years ago now, but I saw a request for a translation for something in youtube comments. I replied with the translation and then a day or two later got a PM saying 'Go to hell you wapanese wannabe weeaboo' from a random stranger. All I had done was translate (poorly at that) a few song lyrics.

I dunno, perhapse I belong with them after all. I DO like a lot of things that are Japanese besides just the language and people; ikebana, origami erm..Tekken, well three things at least! I like their food because it's healthy and simple to make, I like their clothes because they suit my shape (read that 'height' if you must ^^) and erm.. I do sleep on a futon: an authentic Japanese one at that, BUT I have my excuses ready for that too.. It is because I move a lot and currently have a TINY bedroom, so a futon is more convenient. Western futons have metal or wooden bases which make them really uncomfortable and unsuitable for long-term use. Having slept on the standard issue NOVA futon in Japan, I just knew they were comfortable so went with what I knew.

Still, I can't claim I haven't wished I belonged to another culture. In fact, I had serious 'German-envy' when I lived over there and wished I had been born and raised in Germany. The grass is always greener, I know, but everything just seemed better there somehow. On the other hand, Japan is beautiful and the language fascinating, but school on Saturdays? Juku/cram school in the evening? Morning Musume? Summer humidity.. and eugh, MUKADE (massive centipedes that hate me and want me to die). I think I can deal with having not been born and raised there!

Who knows. Maybe there is a liitle weeaboo in me after all. ^^

**thalassa** · 05 May 2012, 03:55

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Nah, Jembru, you're just an American at heart

As the original country of global immigration, we just claim the coolest parts of cultures and customs around the world. Bento boxes, sushi, hibachi restaurants and origami from Japan, pizza and pasta from Italy, Mexican food and those poncho hoodie things from Mexico, sarongs from the South Pacific...you get the idea.

So if you unabashedly think that other cultures have some cool shit, and there's nothing wrong with having cool shit too, in your own cultural context...then you're an American.

**Ophidia** · 05 May 2012, 09:01

Re: VenusAngelic: Harmless or Bad Parenting?

Originally posted by Jembru View Post

But why 'weeaboo'?

It was the gradual devolution of the phrase 'Wannabe Japanese'... that morphed into 'Wapanese', which, through twists and turns of lolspeak & textspeak, was transmogrified into 'weeaboo'. Kind of like how 'twee' came out of 'sweet'.

Etymologists a few hundred years from now will be reading old chat-room transcripts & shaking their heads.

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