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    Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

    Somatoparaphrenia is a type of monothematic delusion where one denies ownership of a limb or an entire side of one's body. Even if provided with undeniable proof that the limb belongs to and is attached to their own body, the patient produces elaborate confabulations about whose limb it really is, or how the limb ended up on their body.[1] In some cases, delusions become so elaborate that a limb may be treated and cared for as if it were a separate being.[1]
    Just finished watching a Nat Geo show on body dis morphia. Apparently it's Psych week on that channel! Layman's term: I want to cut off my limb because it doesn't feel as if it belongs to me or works with my body disorder. And it seems the only known cure..is actual amputation of the limb.

    Now the debate. This is obviously a mental illness. So do we do what we do in all other mental disorders and attempt to treat the patient in the real world? Or do we make an exception and let them amputate a limb? If so, should we also let bi polars commit suicide because they feel this is the best for them? Do we allow schizophrenic (omg I actually spelled it right without auto correct. This scurrs me!) people to dig under their skin for listening devices while we are at it?
    Just debate whatever I guess. It could go a number of reasons and create all sorts of slippery slopes.
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

    I dunno... With our modern mental health care system, there are a lot of crazy folks just wandering the street. A lot of severely mentally ill people are also severely broke, cannot be employed for any length of time (or won't seek employment), state/county run health facilities can't afford to treat people who are basically physically well but crazy - so it's not like a lot of them are getting any treatment whatsoever. Some mental disorders, by the nature of the illnesses, tend to make the people who have the disorders avoid health care and general interactions with people to begin with. Schizophrenics aren't likely to notice that they're crazy. Bipolar disease means that in the manic phase, you feel too good to go to a doctor or take medication & in the depressed phase you're too depressed to do anything (although I know there is wide variation in bipolar disease and am oversimplifying it a great deal).

    I myself find that, when faced with a decision of paying for my own more effective therapy vs. going to the one approved mental health care facility under my insurance, I go without treatment more often than I seek it.

    Because of the nature of somatoparaphrenia (involving a limb that the person doesn't accept as being their own) may lead someone to get medical care, they may actually receive treatment for the underlying mental disorder. However, a plastic surgeon or orthopedic doctor won't be able to provide the necessary mental health care so they may refer the patient to a psychiatric facility - at which point their advice may be dismissed by the patient. It seems like it could be a treatment-resistant illness, and could lead the sufferer to try and solve the problem on their own. Which would lead to a situation where the limb might have to be removed due to irreparable damage.
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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      #3
      Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

      Is this a mental illness or a physical abnormality in brain? There are people who feel their body is the wrong sex. We don't call that mental illness so I wonder if there limb isn't neurologically lined up right?

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        #4
        Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

        Originally posted by Ula View Post
        Is this a mental illness or a physical abnormality in brain? There are people who feel their body is the wrong sex. We don't call that mental illness so I wonder if there limb isn't neurologically lined up right?
        Good question. Well it is considered a psychological disorder along the lines of body integrity disorder.
        Satan is my spirit animal

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          #5
          Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

          I've always suspected my legs didn't belong to me. Now I am sure!

          Hmm, I honestly don't know. I think I would prefer to attempt to treat the psychosis rather than support them to go through with such a life altering procedure. But then that does drag up other issues like: (this one's for you Corbin), if a woman has a C or D cup, but wants larger boobs because she wants to look like those busty glamour models, should we not be treating her dismorphia instead?

          Mental health care is such a foggy area. I often don't agree with decissions authorities make on behalf of the people I support (I work in supported living for people with mental health diagnosis), but I have to follow guidelines I'm given, even when I personally feel the person is having their rights violated.
          夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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            #6
            Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

            I hate to be this person, but I wandered into that part of YouTube where they showed Jerry Springer clips. Pretending it could be real (yes, some of that requires a massive suspension of disbelief) it really muddles up the issue a bit more.



            I think if they're harming themselves in order to remove the limbs people should be treated for the injurious behavior FIRST. After that handle each case on an individual basis. The difference between the individual in the video undergoing a operation and the removal of their legs seems to be the intent of injuring oneself to get rid of it. The person didn't just put a saw to their legs. They injected feces, they would purposefully infect their legs in order to get them removed. The person didn't go to the same lengths to get the physical appearance of a woman.

            Now dubious talk shows aside, it seems the actual disorder in question comes from particular brain damage. The particular damage has to mostly to do (if I recall correctly) with sensory organs and is most likely to show up with strokes or physical trauma. I suspect if therapy focused more on treating the possible brain trauma and treating the disorder as a symptom of brain damage it may prove more effective.
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              #7
              Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

              I guess if someone truly wants to end their life, or disfigure their body in someway I don't think that we have a right to stop them. I used to self mutilate (cutting) and I remember my mom thinking it was awful, disgusting, immature, unnatural etc. But it felt right to me. I seemed to not be able to emotionally process pain and when it would manifest in a physical form it just felt... right. Plus with any injury comes the release of endorphins and it makes you feel good. I said to my mom, when you get stressed you smoke a cig or have a beer which damages your organs permanently. When I get stressed I cut my skin which might leave a physical scar but had no health effects whatsoever.

              If someone is going to hurt others such as the schizophrenic case, then obviously that should not be permitted... Though I can see the argument that it is our responsibility to "protect" these mentally ill people because they are not capable of protecting themselves... but if that person is going to live a tortured mental existence where their mind is a prison... I guess I just do not know...
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                #8
                Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                Ooh! How to treat a mental disorder!! [Steadfastly avoiding the brain-removal option.]

                I can't single just this one disorder out. Obviously, treatment for one disorder isn't appropriate for another, so that's a major hurdle. Then there's the issue of what, exactly, constitutes a mental disorder, to begin with. (Is there not a polar opposite like 'mental order'?) It's a bit like defining "normal", within the law of averages, and there not actually being anyone in that specific range. Treatments, for the entire range of mental disorders, all stem from finding out what works. From there, the tree branches off.

                I can't assume that a simple choice of amputation, or not, is all there is, for possible treatments. I have this nagging understanding that what may work for one person might not work for the next person. And something like an amputation can't exactly be undone. Having got that far, I think somatoparaphrenia treatments would have to begin with the mind and what can be accomplished, there, first. As a 'mental disorder', the disorder , or disease if you will, is of the mind. It stands to reason, then, that's where the treatment should focus on.


                HOWEVER, we live in a society that mainly focuses on symptoms. We, as a whole, tend to search for things to hide the symptoms. Be it medication, behavior, diet, or whatever else may aid in masking whatever symptom. We want to treat the symptoms more than the problems, in many cases. What we run into, in that, is a marketing decision, basically. We can pay for a way to hide it, we just have to buy the right thing.

                • Grandma's senile? Rent her some space in our human warehouse, Codgers' Home, until she finally dies.
                • Don't want your arm anymore? Come on down to 'Hacksaw Jim's', where we have a discount section for upper limbs.
                • Hearing voices? Try our new and improved earplug/headphone combo - you can set it to ignore everyone else, and just hang with your "friends", OR turn up the volume and drown out those noisy bastards, with just a flick of the switch!
                Last edited by ChainLightning; 02 Aug 2012, 11:04.




                "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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                  #9
                  Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                  Wow....just, wow. I have never seen this before. I would speculate that anyone who does this is most certainly deep within the throes of a mental disorder.

                  Chain, you are absolutely right. Our symptoms are treated instead of the actual cause, today. I promise I won't go into a rant on the reason being the monetization and commoditization of everything in our society and how it all boils down to profi....oops, yeah...I won't go there.
                  Allow me to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket. ~ Captain Jack Sparrow

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                    #10
                    Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                    Meh. If people are allowed to chop off their toes so the can buy prettier shoes, then people should be allowed to get their arms or legs or wangs or whatever chopped off if that's what they want.

                    Who are we to deny them?

                    It's their body afterall. As long as they are an adult making an informed decision, then I'm fine with it. If, however, they regret their decision they have only themselves to blame.
                    Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                      #11
                      Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                      Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                      Meh. If people are allowed to chop off their toes so the can buy prettier shoes, then people should be allowed to get their arms or legs or wangs or whatever chopped off if that's what they want.

                      Who are we to deny them?

                      It's their body afterall. As long as they are an adult making an informed decision, then I'm fine with it. If, however, they regret their decision they have only themselves to blame.
                      I really do like the simplicity, in that. It's a great principle. I'd even go with that ideal, if it had some major caveats.

                      But, as someone with a mental disorder, I can say this: helping a patient become healthy is far better than just letting them, irrevocably, go off the deep end. In that respect, alone, letting people do what they want with their body is simply disregarding the disease, the value of a people and, in fact, disregarding the patient.

                      Which leaves me with a quandary. I didn't WANT help, I wanted to die. I went through all the motions to accomplish that but got help before the deed was done. I abhorred the idea of being locked up as a "high risk" as much as I abhorred the pain of just living. Today, I am quite glad to have had someone intervene. Someone to stop me from doing what I wanted. I'm happy to report that I AM getting treatment and that I AM alive. But that sort of contradicts letting people do what they want.


                      Sorry. Rambling, here. No point to make, just sharing my catch-22 take on it.




                      "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                      "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                      "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                      "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                        I don't see how it's different from say doing this to yourself:
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                        I take HUGE offense to altruism, when you start doing things "for the greater good" you start going well off the deep end.

                        Sure it's all well and good to help people, but when you start denying people basic autonomy then it becomes something else entirely. Next thing you know it's nineteen eighty-four all up in here.

                        Where is the line drawn? At what point does my right to autonomy become less important than YOUR morality?
                        Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                          #13
                          Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                          Huh...jumping into this late, but as someone who is currently undergoing corset training, and is saving for the next smaller corset, I'd like to point out that any sort of body modification that is done slowly and carefully is usually safe. That can't be said for lopping off limbs or toes.
                          Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                            #14
                            Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                            There's a difference between using a corset, and having a waist the size of a jar of mayo...
                            Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                              #15
                              Re: Somatoparaphrenia(I wanna cut off my limb disorder!)

                              Thinking...

                              Holy shit. I just had the idea run through my brain that a body mod is body mod, regardless of the degree? And immediately thought of weight loss and diets. I'm not talking about losing a couple pounds but losing dozens. Or, even more chilling, the obsession with being so thin that even a healthy weight is "unacceptably FAT" and heavy. As in, instead of a healthy 115 pounds, this girl weighs less than 80 and still thinks she's fat.


                              Hmm. Consistency fail, on my part, I think. Medical intervention should be an "option", perhaps. I mean, my apathy runs into overtime, quite often, with many of these people, and whatever they want to do with their bodies, that's true. But on the other hand, a mental illness is no excuse to just disregard a section of the population with a wave of 'whatever they wanna do is cool'.

                              I have a practical application. My sociopathic tendencies, and perception that the human race is no more than a parasite or a cancer on this planet, would have me working on a cure. One by one, if necessary. Hell, even the LAW says that's not cool. So there is some set of standards that others are limited to, and not just a sense of anarchy in compassion, kind of thing.


                              Have I mentioned, lately, that I'm inconsistent as hell?




                              "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                              "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                              "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                              "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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