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Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

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    Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

    Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

    This is stemming from my experiences over the last few months. Ive lived in the midlands where there was loads of folk traditions that neopagans would enjoy but no neopagan moots, when I moved back up towards the east coast I started getting back into moots. I hadnt noticed before so maybe Im more sensitive to it at the mo but a lot of man bashing goes on. Men dont want to be fathers, men arent commiitted to relationships, the patriarchy oppresses women all that stuff goes on while Im sitting there looking on. Im no vegitable I fight my corner but I get "oh youre the exception then"... is it that strong a tendancy in neopaganism or is it just the company Im in here?

    Looking back we have had theories of neolithic goddess cults and matrifocal societies that vanished because christianity destroyed paganism and put a patriarchy in place. While theories like that arent central to neopaganism that goddess monotheism comes up regularly, maybe in new age more then neopaganism... but to me, with the wieght of it baring down on me as I type I feel like its all pervasive. Im questioning whether in becoming a neopagan I positioned myself to be second class because of my gender?

    #2
    Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

    I've noticed that too, although my experience is admittedly rather limited. I think it's a bigger problem in Wicca in particular (where there are entire sects devoted to feminism) than in other neopagan paths. This is one of the big reasons why I kind of avoid it. What radical feminists seem to fail to understand is that making sweeping generalizations about men is just as unfair as making them about women... it's still sexist. Discrimination is not necessarily a one-way street. A matriarchy is not an equal society. An equal society is an equal society.

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      #3
      Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

      It depends on the community and the tradition. I've seen it both ways.
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
      sigpic

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        #4
        Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

        I can see what you mean. I know Pagan women who are positively full of angst towards men. I don't personally see it that way, and I agree that it's very sexist.

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          #5
          Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

          Originally posted by thalassa View Post
          It depends on the community and the tradition. I've seen it both ways.
          That's been my experience as well.
          Hearth and Hedge

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            #6
            Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

            As a solitary, I don't get to see much of this sort of thing on my path (unless you count the times when I am very very cross with Mr Penry.) However, I do see both extremes in everyday life especially since where I live is an area that is male-orientated, but where the Welsh 'Mam' rules everything.

            I think the way forward must be to judge people (if, indeed we have to judge) as individuals, regardless of gender...
            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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              #7
              Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

              You guys need Satanism. Both sexes are bad ass mofos.

              Tru story.
              Satan is my spirit animal

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                #8
                Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                Quite possibly within Wicca and some versions of Celtic Neopaganism; those guys have always struck me as being somewhat pussy-whipped.:lookingdown:

                One of the many reasons I prefer Germanic/Norse Paganism. Odin and Thor are the ultimate Alpha Males, and we keep our women where they belong - pregnant and in the kitchen!












                (I keed!)

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                  #9
                  Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                  I tend to go with the idea that feminine and masculine features exist within everyone and I connect with the God and Goddess equally because of the values they represent more than their hypothetical sexes. But then I'm not quite the picture of masculinity. :P
                  I think the goddess-centric feminine temple stuff is more new age. Most pagans I've talked to don't feel that way but I think it varies by experience.

                  selume proferre

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                    #10
                    Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                    Originally posted by DrStrange View Post
                    One of the many reasons I prefer Germanic/Norse Paganism. Odin and Thor are the ultimate Alpha Males, and we keep our women where they belong - pregnant and in the kitchen!
                    I know you're joking, but this is basically the attitude I see from some pagan men. (Not just in the Germanic/Norse traditions, either, just to be clear.)
                    Hearth and Hedge

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                      #11
                      Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                      Originally posted by Gardenia View Post
                      I know you're joking, but this is basically the attitude I see from some pagan men. (Not just in the Germanic/Norse traditions, either, just to be clear.)
                      I agree. My thing with this thread is that while I know that some Pagan women can be pretty full of angst, I just think it's ridiculous that the men feel that it's so offensive or unfair that they don't have an equal place within some Pagan traditions as women do... In a lot of societies today, women have nowhere near the equality that men do.
                      The only way to have equality is to have equality... I don't know if I'm making any sense, I'm just sort of rambling. Haha.

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                        #12
                        Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                        I think it's really silly that people keep saying things like "sexist" and "unfair".

                        Sorry, but since when was the world not male-dominated? One facet of life not totally immersed in wiener-worshipping and people lose their minds. I think it's quite fair, however fairness and equal speaking time for the goddess and the god is so impossible to comprehend to some that by comparison it's 100% ladycentric. Sad.

                        And btw, you can't be sexist towards men. Sexism=prejudice+opression. You can't oppress men based on them being men. No matter what, men will still be the dominant sex, they will still have male privilege and enjoy the perks of not being born female in a man's world.

                        Some small groups of paganism and neopaganism are strictlychick-centered. I would say the vast majority are not.

                        Boo hoo, sad privileged boy tears.
                        Please disregard typos in above post. I browse the web on a Nook and i suck at typing on touch screens.

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                          #13
                          Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                          Goddess spirituality (Starhawk, Z. Budapest, etc.) may have come from Wicca but the two are different paths entirely. Traditional Wiccan (think Gardner, Sanders, Valiente, the Farrars, etc.) was always duotheistic. The Wheel of the Year has been celebrated in Wiccan circles since the beginnings of the tradition with Gardner as a very god-focal storyline. Also, Wicca always gets this wrap of being so female-dominated and yet if you listed the most influential writers and practitioners in Wicca since the beginning it would be more men than women: Gardner, Sanders, Cunningham, Buckland, Penzcak. These seem more quoted than Budapest or Janet Farrar or Maxine Sanders (Alex's wife). Even Starhawk seems less influential than she once was.

                          I don't think contemporary Paganism is too feminist, Dianic Wicca aside. I think that traditional religions of the West have been so androcentric that a Wiccan devotion to the goddess, high priestesses, etc. may seem as a shock to some.

                          Also, reconstructionist paths may fight against the feminist New Age aspect of contemporary Paganism but many recons have to fight against the blatant misogyny that existed in their paths, such as Nordic Paganism or Religio Romana, all of which sprang from societies with far less equality amongst the sexes than we have now. The view can be skewed in both ways, and both sides can over-correct sometimes.

                          Sure, some people like Budapest may take it too far but all in all I really don't think it's a huge problem. I think it is a manufactured problem brought up by the fact that sexism is always going to be around and some people don't like the idea of a religion that has such a feminine input (like Wicca). Since Wicca had such a huge influence on the growing contemporary Pagan movement, a lot of the female-oriented practices of Wicca were adopted or filtered into new movements as they grew in the larger Pagan umbrella.

                          I mean, do you really feel like a second-class citizen in Paganism? Outside of Wicca, it seems to me that men are celebrated quite a lot. I have a female Asatru friend who complains that her path is sometimes too geared to the masculine. I see you aren't a Wiccan so I'm kind of surprised that you've experienced this.

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                            #14
                            Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                            Originally posted by Just_Wondering View Post
                            And btw, you can't be sexist towards men. Sexism=prejudice+opression. .
                            Lemme fix that for you..

                            WHITE MEN you mean.
                            Satan is my spirit animal

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                              #15
                              Re: Within neopaganism does feminism exist at the expense of male neopagans?

                              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                              Lemme fix that for you..

                              WHITE MEN you mean.
                              Great point. I might add heterosexual to that as well.

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