Pagan views on hunting

[Jembru]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Oh, so you hunt on horseback with a pack of hound dogs? Interesting. Dunno why I assumed that was a British thing. Well, we banned fox hunting here so our aristocrosy only have pheasant to entertain themselves with. Oh and thanks for your gentlemanly chivelry btw. When I take over the world, I'll spare you. You can be my personal hunter to keep the giant spider population in check...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Who pissed in your cheerios this mornin' Cap'n?

We have to do the same thing with our elk herds down here. Is it a free for all or does the game warden set up the culls?

I've been sitting on burs.

I'm not sure how the local elk herd is handled - controlled permits, I bet - it's not out of control like the deer population.

For the deer, they've got huge open seasons of all kinds, and the deer are just about everywhere, still. The population has become so dense that we have a terrible problem with bovine TB being transmitted from cow to deer to cow. Some farmers have had to put done their whole barn (we have small dairy farms, not huge meat herds).

[Jembru]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

If we are talking about a population that has maxed out its carrying capacity, then hunting alone will do bugger all to control the population. Culling, often seen as the only solution as it is instant, and mimics the effects of disease, doesn't carry with it the same 'living in harmony' vibe that hunting does (in my opinion). It is wasteful and so, arguably, not an ideal solution if it can be avoided. It is however, far cheaper than sterilisation programs and less complex (careful monitoring of the exact percentage of sterilisations is needed to avoid a complete wipe out or a complete waste of effort). Neither method is perfect, but I lean more in favour of sterilisation. The animals are tsill at carrying capacity, so in competition, even though the number of viable animals is reduced, so there isn't the same baby boom affect you see after a cull. The effects will therefore last longer (especially if hunting is allowed to continue in areas where they have few or no non-human preditors). The system has it's flaws and has often failed because we can't predict nature as well as we like to think we can, but I'll always support it in favour of culling.

And for the record, I was refering to using birth control in the case of human beings, not actual sterilisation. Although after seeing a documentory by Louis Theroux (and the Nazis), I'm not entirely against removing the balls of certain folk...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

And for the record, I was refering to using birth control in the case of human beings, not actual sterilisation. Although after seeing a documentory by Louis Theroux (and the Nazis), I'm not entirely against removing the balls of certain folk...

LOL - and, for the record, I'm glad it was a misunderstanding - ya scared the poop out of me, Jembru, thinking that a reasonable person would suggest sterilization as a means of human population control was too much to handle nicely. My bad. As a person who has devoted considerable chucks of my life to understanding all the ways we inevitably do harm by trying to do good, some things are just going set me off.

My apologies.

[Jembru]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Yeah, I was really slow to realise how you'd taken my words. I was all.. 'but he's always shrugged me off before...' Then I realised my wording was vague and made me sound like a neonazi.. funny too, because although I joke about being an evil warlord, one of my biggest predjudices is against white supremacy (any form of supremacy in fact). I'm just overtired so operating at half my usual brain power. But yeah.. I'm not quite that evil yet. And honestly, looking at countries like Japan that have been overpopulated then hit by a very long recession, I think birth rate will fall and we will avoid the need for war. People are suffering in this recession (look at Greece!!), but it's by far the lesser evil. Clever Goddess made us poor to preserve our future. Nice! ^^

[thalassa]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

And for the record people who engage in "sport hunting" are not real hunters. There is no sport in killing something that was bred purely for dieing in an area built for hunters :/

You mean a canned hunt? Sport hunting (where I'm from) is just hunting that isn't to eat--usually for trophy or
competitive purposes.

As long as sport hunting is done with permits/tags and within the legal limits...I have no issue with that. I'd prefer it were done otherwise, but ecologically, its a good thing in populations that are * ridiculous* due to no natural predators. And most people that I know that hunt for sport do it for the love of hunting, since its pretty darn expensive of a hobby otherwise, and frown at canned hunts as not real hunting. Canned hunts--those are effed up.

[Jembru]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

You mean a canned hunt? Sport hunting (where I'm from) is just hunting that isn't to eat--usually for trophy or
competitive purposes.

As long as sport hunting is done with permits/tags and within the legal limits...I have no issue with that. I'd prefer it were done otherwise, but ecologically, its a good thing in populations that are * ridiculous* due to no natural predators. And most people that I know that hunt for sport do it for the love of hunting, since its pretty darn expensive of a hobby otherwise, and frown at canned hunts as not real hunting. Canned hunts--those are effed up.

Sadly, this makes up a good percentage of the 'hunting' that goes on in the UK. Of course there are people who hunt for food: mostly rabbit and wildfowl in that case (but it is often illegal to take wildfowl, because so much of our wildlife is protected due to low population). There is a small, but large enough to be concerning, amount of illegal badger baiting that goes on here, but much of our hunting is done by the aristocracy. Having a stuffed animal on your wall, is a status thing, but most of them died in these so called 'canned hunts' (new expression for me, thanks Thal!).

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Yeah, I suspect that a lot of folks over in Europe don't really understand How much of the US is made up of wild lands - either owned by the Feds, or the state, or in private hands. Despite Los Angeles, New York, Detroit and the rest, there are a whole heck of a lot of us here who live in rural areas where hunting is still a standard means of obtaining food. A family puts two deer in the freezer and they have a year's supply of good venison.

The area where I live was homesteaded less than two generations ago - then, hunting for survival was an absolute necessity, so for many people the act of harvesting a deer is still considered a right-of-passage indicating that one has developed adult skills.

[Dral]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Oh, so you hunt on horseback with a pack of hound dogs? Interesting. Dunno why I assumed that was a British thing. Well, we banned fox hunting here so our aristocrosy only have pheasant to entertain themselves with. Oh and thanks for your gentlemanly chivelry btw. When I take over the world, I'll spare you. You can be my personal hunter to keep the giant spider population in check...

Yup, 600 acres is a hell of a lot to walk and taking anything with an engine is a sure way to screw up the forests' mojo/ alert every prey animal in the forest that humans be around. Ergo Sum I ride horseback to where I'm hunting but I don't actually do the hunting on horseback, sent hounds for rabbits and gun dogs (retreivers) for squirrel + I just really really like working with dogs so they go with me no matter what I'm hunting.

WTF why would you ever hunt fox their endangered? Besides fox are a predator animal O: ? Aristocracy btw? Y'all still have nobility?

And your welcome I promise to do well.

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You mean a canned hunt? Sport hunting (where I'm from) is just hunting that isn't to eat--usually for trophy or
competitive purposes.

As long as sport hunting is done with permits/tags and within the legal limits...I have no issue with that. I'd prefer it were done otherwise, but ecologically, its a good thing in populations that are * ridiculous* due to no natural predators. And most people that I know that hunt for sport do it for the love of hunting, since its pretty darn expensive of a hobby otherwise, and frown at canned hunts as not real hunting. Canned hunts--those are effed up.

Canned are what I meant. The love of hunting is certainly a factor I just subscribe to the waste not philosophy in regards to kills.

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I've been sitting on burs.

I'm not sure how the local elk herd is handled - controlled permits, I bet - it's not out of control like the deer population.

For the deer, they've got huge open seasons of all kinds, and the deer are just about everywhere, still. The population has become so dense that we have a terrible problem with bovine TB being transmitted from cow to deer to cow. Some farmers have had to put done their whole barn (we have small dairy farms, not huge meat herds).

Three seasons ago they cut back on how many deer permits they issued, the population became so overpopulated that there was an outbreak of blue tongue disease, wiped out a third of the entire deer population in the whole state. Ever since there deer season has been huge, x3 the permits issued. I went from taking 2 a year to 6. There was a lot of talk about a cull during the disease outbreak.

[Jembru]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Yeah, class is still a big part of British life. I realise that working, middle and upper class exist everywhere (though I heard regardless of income, most Americans call themselves middle-class. Not sure how much truth was in that though). Here, the is quite a distinct divide.

It took a long time, because the country is generally run by the wealthier sect, who look after their own, but we eventually made fox hunting (in the sense of running them down with several horses and 30+ hounds), has been banned.

Foxes have now spread into most urban areas and although they upset a few chicken keepers, most folk seem to be thrilled at seeing a little more wildlife on our streets! We have a family living onn the wasteland behind my mum's place. I took JP to see them and at 21 years old, it was the first time he had ever seen a fox in the flesh!

Ah, I see what you meant with the horse and hound. I must admit I am deligted to have misunderstood. I was secretely a little sad to think fox hunting was popular in the states too.

[Dral]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

Yeah, class is still a big part of British life. I realise that working, middle and upper class exist everywhere (though I heard regardless of income, most Americans call themselves middle-class. Not sure how much truth was in that though). Here, the is quite a distinct divide.

It took a long time, because the country is generally run by the wealthier sect, who look after their own, but we eventually made fox hunting (in the sense of running them down with several horses and 30+ hounds), has been banned.

Foxes have now spread into most urban areas and although they upset a few chicken keepers, most folk seem to be thrilled at seeing a little more wildlife on our streets! We have a family living onn the wasteland behind my mum's place. I took JP to see them and at 21 years old, it was the first time he had ever seen a fox in the flesh!

Ah, I see what you meant with the horse and hound. I must admit I am deligted to have misunderstood. I was secretely a little sad to think fox hunting was popular in the states too.

Fox hunting will land you in jail in my part of the world lol. The only people that are allowed to kill them are people like me actually, farmers that is. But I've never been able to bring myself to hurt one so I just suck it up and loose a chicken or two every now and again. 21 lol that's crazy, there actually doing quite well here despite gun happy farmers. Most people around here worry more about the lions than the fox though

My American sensibilities would not allow me to live in such a place lolol, most Americans do call themselves middle class but there not, there's classes here just like anywhere else, it's hard to explain but the best way I can say it is that there are classes but they're fluid, the rich can easily become poor and the poor can easily become rich. Most millionares in America are self made and there's not a lot of special priviliges that come with being wealthy. But that's getting way off topic lolol. But I'm glad y'all got fox hunting banned that's insane.

[Kærlighed]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

I use one of my dogs to track game, then dispatch of it myself. As for fox hunting, I hated it due to the waste as the animal was rarely eaten. That said, I understand why people did it, it's fun! Now, I participate in mock hunts. A quad bike is ridden over dedicated mock-hunt land owned by one of the huntsmen, dragging a bundle of hay or cloth soaked in animal urine, often the soiled bedding of the horse we 'hunt' on. The hunt-dogs are trained to aim for that. They sent the urine and we follow on horseback with no animals being killed for it. At the end we have a chat, treat the animals then go home without a big party. Two weeks later, another huntsman's land, another mock-hunt. The land we use to hold these mock-hunts is owned by us so we ruin our own land, not the countryside and the welfare of the animals always comes first.

Old hunts often used one breed of dog to hunt, and only the best horse. We use what we have. Honestly, we must look a site, a vast mix of breeds, with a friends Spaniel and my German Shepard often leading the pack and me on my Thoroughbred / Lippy cross, keeping an eye on a little'un on a Dartmoor pony.

So anyway, hunting is quite good fun but I hate the hunts of old, with public land being ruined, animals being killed in waste and only the elite allowed to be involved. We do it for fun, only on private land and without anything being killed or hurt. You don't even need to be a goof rider to take part. Local stable hands, if they want to, can be taught and join in without charge (we pay. If they are keen enough, it shows. Money should not be part of it if they really really love it.)

And Jembru - Yes. Before you ask, yes I am upper class! My birth and upbringing were very blue-collar but my partner was born into excessive wealth. However, we don't like the fancy do's and if he wasn't born into the money, we would live a lower-middle life, with our jobs being paramedic and low-league state-school teacher.

[Dral]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

I use one of my dogs to track game, then dispatch of it myself. As for fox hunting, I hated it due to the waste as the animal was rarely eaten. That said, I understand why people did it, it's fun! Now, I participate in mock hunts. A quad bike is ridden over dedicated mock-hunt land owned by one of the huntsmen, dragging a bundle of hay or cloth soaked in animal urine, often the soiled bedding of the horse we 'hunt' on. The hunt-dogs are trained to aim for that. They sent the urine and we follow on horseback with no animals being killed for it. At the end we have a chat, treat the animals then go home without a big party. Two weeks later, another huntsman's land, another mock-hunt. The land we use to hold these mock-hunts is owned by us so we ruin our own land, not the countryside and the welfare of the animals always comes first.

Old hunts often used one breed of dog to hunt, and only the best horse. We use what we have. Honestly, we must look a site, a vast mix of breeds, with a friends Spaniel and my German Shepard often leading the pack and me on my Thoroughbred / Lippy cross, keeping an eye on a little'un on a Dartmoor pony.

So anyway, hunting is quite good fun but I hate the hunts of old, with public land being ruined, animals being killed in waste and only the elite allowed to be involved. We do it for fun, only on private land and without anything being killed or hurt. You don't even need to be a goof rider to take part. Local stable hands, if they want to, can be taught and join in without charge (we pay. If they are keen enough, it shows. Money should not be part of it if they really really love it.)



And Jembru - Yes. Before you ask, yes I am upper class! My birth and upbringing were very blue-collar but my partner was born into excessive wealth. However, we don't like the fancy do's and if he wasn't born into the money, we would live a lower-middle life, with our jobs being paramedic and low-league state-school teacher.

A scent rag? We do something very similar with training our scent hounds. You basically just described how we train rabbit dogs Personally I've been riding since I was walking but I wouldn't feel comfortable riding after game. I guess it would take getting used to but then again there's just something about stalking prey on foot.

[Kærlighed]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

A scent rag? We do something very similar with training our scent hounds. You basically just described how we train rabbit dogs Personally I've been riding since I was walking but I wouldn't feel comfortable riding after game. I guess it would take getting used to but then again there's just something about stalking prey on foot.

I must admit, I do prefer hunting on foot and I never ride to hunt if I'm on my own. With the mock-hunts, it's the social factor I enjoy, plus there's just something about jumping a fallen tree then then turning, in absolute perfect sync with the person next to you without having any idea which way you are going to to turn till a microsecond before you landed and being totally in control of the horse yet having no idea which way you're going to go.

As for riding after actual game, nah. I'll just scare it away and lose the fun part, the creeping through the undergrowth mumbling to yourself and pretending you are in a Bond film!!

[cesara]

Re: Pagan views on hunting

I'm in Canada. A lot of us hunt. Government restricts certain species and we all enter the 'limited entry' draws each year and sometimes we get a draw, sometimes we don't. Certain species/genders are 'open', so we can hunt those without draws throughout the hunting season.

My family has hunted mule deer, white-tail deer, elk, moose and black bear. We eat all the meat. Earlier on we would hire a butcher, but, over the years we've learned to do the butchering ourselves. Sometime we use the deer hair to tie flies.

My favorite is the deer. Bear wasn't so great so we don't hunt it anymore. It's a good feeling to know that you stocked your freezer with meat by your own hand -- knowing it hasn't been pumped up with steroids and antibiotics. We know where and how they lived -- we know what they've eaten.

For us, hunting affords us a few different benefits including healthy food, a healthy respect for nature by taking only what we need, and a deeper connection to nature and our food sources.