Wondering about spirituality

[Sparrowings]

I'm a new person to this forum, and I joined because I wanted to ask the pagan community some questions about their faith. I don't know really what faith I am, but druidism and paganism seems like it makes sense to me. The particular aspects of it that I like are the connection to nature, especially that the holidays are based on times in the year rather than celebrations of religious figures.

What I don't really like about it (and I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend any of you) is the spells. I just don't think spells work, no matter how strong your connection with nature or whatever deity you choose, I just don't believe that people have the power to alter their surroundings in that way. I started researching paganism in high school and was turned off by the pagan books making paganism sound like something kitchy and just as fake as Christianity, anyone could make up their own spells and write a book about it, it seemed. Plus there are unending videos on YouTube of teen-aged girls reciting spells that supposedly turn you into mermaids or whatnot.

What I'd like to know is how you tell the actual facts from the b.s? And is there a form of paganism that sidesteps the spells and just teaches you an appreciation of nature and a practice of ancient traditions?

[thalassa]

[quote author=Sparrowings link=topic=559.msg7887#msg7887 date=1288319120]
I'm a new person to this forum, and I joined because I wanted to ask the pagan community some questions about their faith. I don't know really what faith I am, but druidism and paganism seems like it makes sense to me. The particular aspects of it that I like are the connection to nature, especially that the holidays are based on times in the year rather than celebrations of religious figures.

What I don't really like about it (and I'm sorry, I don't mean to offend any of you) is the spells. I just don't think spells work, no matter how strong your connection with nature or whatever deity you choose, I just don't believe that people have the power to alter their surroundings in that way. I started researching paganism in high school and was turned off by the pagan books making paganism sound like something kitchy and just as fake as Christianity, anyone could make up their own spells and write a book about it, it seemed. Plus there are unending videos on YouTube of teen-aged girls reciting spells that supposedly turn you into mermaids or whatnot.

What I'd like to know is how you tell the actual facts from the b.s? And is there a form of paganism that sidesteps the spells and just teaches you an appreciation of nature and a practice of ancient traditions?
[/quote]

Well...you don't have to do spell work to be pagan...but...I think what you are considering spell work isn't a reality for many pagans--at least not that many that I know of...

There are just as many definitions for what a spell is or is not and when and why and how to do one as there are Pagans...and TBH, publishers print what makes them money. love spells and instant gratification sell...and neither is realistic. TBH, I don't think that your issue is any that most of us haven't, at some point or another, struggled with at some point in our journey.

At the end of the day, spells are just a formula for change...that change, in my practice, comes from within, with the help of imagery, lessons learned, inspiration, etc from without. I don't cast a spell to become a mermaid...but having practiced witchcraft at the shore where I lived for six years, I was more than familiar with the idea of using the symbolism of the mermaid as a catalyst for change, for using items from the shore as focal points for meditation and magic and for using the energy of the waves and the tides create (sort of like the feeling you get from an awe-inspiring experience) as the force for the change I want to create.

Even if you don't believe in the first part, spells can be quite effective with the second and third parts:

Spells don’t have one repeating process in their operation. There is a variation of paths that spells may take to manifest, rather than one designated procedure.

First of all, there’s the obvious element of energy that we just looked at. The energy that we send out is the physical element, a force that exists on a physical plane. When you’re casting a spell and focus on sending energy out into the world, that moving energy, which initially seems like the only way a spell could actually work given its description, is actually only one way the spell might manifest.

Second, there is a psychological element. Say for instance that you were casting a spell to do well on an exam for school. Say your spell involves following each line in the textbook chapter with the same pencil you’ll use on the test; in a way, then pencil is “learning” the information to help you recall it on the test. In a manner of speaking, you’re following that information with your eyes as well, reading, studying, which not only helps you on the mental level but also enters the information in your brain, even if only subconsciously.

In the same way, if you perform a spell to gain a promotion within the next year at work, you’ll find you have more confidence in your ability to succeed (which, I might add, will make you a more appealing employee and increase your chances at that promotion).

Thirdly, there is an emotional element. Spells that involve a personal event in your life are a perfect example; spells to help you move on after the passing of a loved one, spells that accept a new love into your life, and so on. We already do such things, even non-Witches, usually without noticing it. Rituals such as a wedding, a funeral, or a birthday have significance in their symbolism, just as you will use in spells. The concept of closure presents itself in a variety of ways, and using a spell to do so is not only a potentially beautiful way to bring about such a farewell, but a ritualistic act that holds more of an impact on our emotional lives.

from Rafe's article on spellcasting http://www.paganforum.com/index.php?topic=41.0

Either way though (because I'm just trying to offer you another POV, not because I'm trying to convince you you are wrong about spells, I happen to be turned off by the same attitude), you don't need to cast spells or do magic to be pagan....what might help is the Pagan 101 thread, at least in offering you some of the different ways you can *be* Pagan, it that is where your interest ultimately lies.

[Sitnamorcen]

[quote author=Sparrowings link=topic=559.msg7887#msg7887 date=1288319120]
What I'd like to know is how you tell the actual facts from the b.s? [/quote]

In my experience, it's always going to be yourself that decides what part feels like it's BS and what part feels like it could be something.

Plus, I think I can speak for everyone on this forum when I say that if you're looking for facts, YouTube isn't the best place to start be.
And what thal said, most spell books are made for profit and include rediculous spells for instant love or wealth or whatever.

[Sparrowings]

Spells don’t have one repeating process in their operation. There is a variation of paths that spells may take to manifest, rather than one designated procedure.

First of all, there’s the obvious element of energy that we just looked at. The energy that we send out is the physical element, a force that exists on a physical plane. When you’re casting a spell and focus on sending energy out into the world, that moving energy, which initially seems like the only way a spell could actually work given its description, is actually only one way the spell might manifest.

Second, there is a psychological element. Say for instance that you were casting a spell to do well on an exam for school. Say your spell involves following each line in the textbook chapter with the same pencil you’ll use on the test; in a way, then pencil is “learning” the information to help you recall it on the test. In a manner of speaking, you’re following that information with your eyes as well, reading, studying, which not only helps you on the mental level but also enters the information in your brain, even if only subconsciously.

In the same way, if you perform a spell to gain a promotion within the next year at work, you’ll find you have more confidence in your ability to succeed (which, I might add, will make you a more appealing employee and increase your chances at that promotion).

Thirdly, there is an emotional element. Spells that involve a personal event in your life are a perfect example; spells to help you move on after the passing of a loved one, spells that accept a new love into your life, and so on. We already do such things, even non-Witches, usually without noticing it. Rituals such as a wedding, a funeral, or a birthday have significance in their symbolism, just as you will use in spells. The concept of closure presents itself in a variety of ways, and using a spell to do so is not only a potentially beautiful way to bring about such a farewell, but a ritualistic act that holds more of an impact on our emotional lives.

from Rafe's article on spellcasting http://www.paganforum.com/index.php?topic=41.0

That's a good way of putting it! I'll have to think about that.

[Tylluan Penry]

Speaking as a witch who does practice magic, it's certainly isn't imperative that you practice magic in order to be a pagan. The great thing about paganism is that there is so much choice. And magic is really just a very small part of it.

For me, magic serves many purposes, including blessings and protection (I can honestly say that I have never tried to turn myself or anyone else into a mermaid! ) and weirdly, the better I got at it, the less I needed to do it. But it's quite possible to follow a pagan path without ever uttering a single spell.

Having said that, if you follow any path that is nature based, you will almost certainly become more aware of the magic of nature herself.

With regard to sifting out the BS - my advice is to read widely, wisely and well. Not just books on your chosen path but also on folklore, history, art, plants, animals etc. The more widely read you are, the less likely you will be to be taken in by 'pseudo' stuff.

And good luck!

[Sparrowings]

Thanks, that's good advice too! Can any of you reccomend some good books to start with? I was going to start reading the holiday series from llewellyn publishing, since I have an interest in anicent traditions and the holidays.

[Tylluan Penry]

If you're interested in holiday etc., my personal favourite would be Ronald Hutton's The Stations of The Sun - especially if you can borrow it from a local library. Although UK based, it's a very useful starting point. Try looking at some reviews of it on Amazon... that will often give you a good idea whether you would like it or not!

[Madness]

[quote author=Sparrowings link=topic=559.msg8107#msg8107 date=1288375263]
Can any of you reccomend some good books to start with? I was going to start reading the holiday series from llewellyn publishing, since I have an interest in anicent traditions and the holidays.
[/quote]

I have all the Llewellyn holiday books. They are fun, light, silly reads. I do love them. But if you are truly interested in ancient traditions and holidays, skip these books! Some of the claims they make a laughable - the sort of stuff you find on Snopes (like candy canes actually being a J and representing Jesus and his blood). But they have cute ideas for holidays.

For real ancient traditions, you'll first have to pick which one(s) you are interested in. Then I suggest reading history books or non-Wiccan pagan books that are specifically based on that culture.