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    Odinism vs. Hinduism

    Any thoughts? For a lot of personal reasons I feel a bit torn about Hinduism. My main problem is that it's diametrically opposed to Heathenry, really. Odinism is very "pro-life" in that we believe in living life in the here and now, meat eating is okay, natural law is good, this world is basically good. Hinduism views this world as basically bad and seeks to return to some sort of state of "oneness with god." What a Hindu would call a yogi, an Odinist would call a thrall - someone who attempts to float through life while acting as little as possible ("act without attachment..." "do not act for the fruits of your actions..." etc.). To Hinduism, it's a good thing to act little, to have no personal goals, to "surrender to god" and basically just be like a tool for god. To an Odinist, that would be completely the opposite - we honor our gods, but we'd never "surrender" to them, nor do we care to give up our personal goals or ambition. The vegetarianism thing is a good example of the fundamental difference - Hindus think that meat eating is wrong because you're causing suffering, but (most) Odinists see it as just part of the natural order.

    Anyone have any thoughts? :/

    -Valhalla

    #2
    Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

    I'm not Heathen, but I'm not sure what you're asking. You're looking a very Western vs. Eastern concept and to me that's like comparing apples and grapes.
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    "...leave me curled up in my ball,
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    ill prepared, but willing,
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      #3
      Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

      I agree with the OP.

      The whole eastern religions mindset of Buddhism and Hinduism seems to me, to be a 'giving up' of life - way too passive and meek.

      A little like Christianity.

      'the meek shall inherit the Earth' - that is just lame IMO.

      Life is to be lived, nature is to be absorbed and evil needs to be fought - passive submission to a contrived ideal is just a cop out.

      'turn the other cheek' - no way!, my motto would be more like 'fight fire with fire'.

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        #4
        Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

        I don't know enough about Hinduism or Heathenry to be able to comment, but it is a very interesting subject and I'll be keeping a close eye on the thread. While researching my own deities, which are Celtic, I came across a few reconstructionists who borrow from Hinduism to fill in gaps, because they noticed parrallels between the Celtic religions and Hinduism. So Hinduism is a kind of 'frog DNA', in rebuilding our T.rex.

        I'm confused now, because the things I have borrowed from Hinduism into my own spirituality, are largely from the Kama Sutra, a recognised Hindu text, and this doesn't, to me at least, appear to match up with this idea of 'Hindus don't live in the here and now' at all. It is all about embracing the physical, enjoying the senses and appreciating beauty and art.

        One of my favourite parts, is where it mentions the '64' arts that are studied by women. These include (you might be surprised)...

        Writing,
        Drawing,
        Tattoing
        Adorning an idol with rice and flowers,

        (a bunch of girly stuff like make-up, perfume and arranging cushions, and then...)

        Magic and sorcery,
        The art of aquiring property belonging to someone else through means of incantations

        Gardening,
        Languages (yippee!)
        Disguises
        Gambling
        and...

        The art of war!!!

        The list is pretty cool and apparently mastery of these arts makes a woman more attractive. Also, it claims there is nothing more attractive to a female than a male who has also matered these arts!!

        The idea of being meek and rejecting the physical pleasures, is something I've always considered more of a Buddhist ideal. Although clearly it exists in Hinduism, I have trouble in accepting it is at the heart of the faith.
        Last edited by Jembru; 06 Dec 2012, 21:49.
        夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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          #5
          Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

          from what I know of the Kama Sutra, a man was meant to be taught the sensual pleasures early on in his adulthood, before committing to monogamy later on in life.

          A kind of 'getting it out of the system' so to speak.

          Seemingly, the pleasure aspect was more male oriented here.

          but it's the whole 'caste' system of Hinduism that puts me off - a person must know their place and all that.

          No, that just doesn't sit well with me.

          plus, Hindus are expected to be born into the faith, so a convert may not be accepted by many mainstream organisations.

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            #6
            Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

            Well kama means pleasure-seeking. There are four goals of life for Hinduism, Kama, pleasure seeking, desire fulfillment, Artha, amassing wealth, Dharma, fulfilling your natural duties to society, and Moksha, escaping from Samsara. In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna says that if you live a good, noble life, but don't seek moksha, you haven't wasted your life, but I can't stand that thought. To me, it wouldn't be good enough to be in a religion and settle for less than the highest goal, but I wonder if moksha should actually BE considered the highest goal.

            The whole concept, if you read the Bhagavad Gita, is to basically stop differentiating between good and bad - I will seek pleasure and try to avoid pain. I guess the idea is that, because seeking external pleasures can never really bring us ultimate fulfillment (which assumes such a thing exists at all), if we die still thinking along this paradigm of "seek the good, avoid the bad," we will be forced to be born again in order to continue doing so.

            So their idea is to basically just not care. Don't identify with yourself (discard the concept of "I am me"). Perform all the duties you must - if you're a soldier, fight, if you're a builder, build etc. Also eat, maintain your body, but other than that, don't seek pleasure, and don't try to avoid pain. This way, you will be "freed" from Samsara (the cycle of birth and death).

            In the northern religion, acting like this would most likely be seen as a form of cowardice - trying to run from life. One Odinist philosopher termed such people "thralls" and declared that their souls are sent to the lowest part of Hel, where their souls are pretty much recycled, since the gods created this world for us to live in, and those who fail to live life are worthless in the eyes of Wotan.

            But maybe both concepts are true. Maybe moksha and being sent to the dark realms are the same thing. Maybe the northers and the Hindus simply want two different things. They cannot stand living, they cannot stand struggle and fighting for life and happiness, so they detach themselves from this life to get out of it. For them, this is moksha - liberation. For the Odinist, the goal of life is to become powerful, strong, and attain the heavenly realms upon death. He sees the attainment of moksha as the seeking of the lowest realms of Hel, and strives for the opposite. So maybe they are not contradictory faiths at all, one just strives for something different.

            Damn, I am liking this theory. Under this paradigm, so much is making sense to me that did not make sense before.

            -Valhalla

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              #7
              Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

              Originally posted by Jembru View Post
              While researching my own deities, which are Celtic, I came across a few reconstructionists who borrow from Hinduism to fill in gaps, because they noticed parrallels between the Celtic religions and Hinduism. So Hinduism is a kind of 'frog DNA', in rebuilding our T.rex.
              That's because both cultures stem from the proto-Indo-Europeans. There are quite a few reconstructionists these days looking at all the Indo-European cultures to try to find common practices, to see if there are gaps that can be filled in that way. It's pretty interesting stuff, IMO. The Germanic cultures have the same roots. You can see a lot of the same repeating ideas, symbols, and beings when you compare their mythologies.


              I also agree with you as far as Hinduism goes. We have to remember, this is a huuuge religion, with tons of different schools of thought and teachings on all sorts of subjects. I don't think it's fair to say that they dislike life, or give up on it, or to think of them all as meek pacifists. I mean, one of their more important holy texts, the Bhagavad Gita, takes place in the middle of a war, and Krishna tells Arjuna that he needs to do his duty as a warrior and fight. The Bhagavad Gita also goes into detail of many different ways to worship and live life - which yes, includes the give up all your things and go meditate all day on a mountain sort of thing, but that is just one of many. I mean for sure there are going to be differences in the religions, big ones at times, but they do have things in common as well. I guess in the end, even if they are very different, does it really matter?
              Hearth and Hedge

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                #8
                Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

                Originally posted by Gardenia View Post
                That's because both cultures stem from the proto-Indo-Europeans. There are quite a few reconstructionists these days looking at all the Indo-European cultures to try to find common practices, to see if there are gaps that can be filled in that way. It's pretty interesting stuff, IMO. The Germanic cultures have the same roots. You can see a lot of the same repeating ideas, symbols, and beings when you compare their mythologies.


                I also agree with you as far as Hinduism goes. We have to remember, this is a huuuge religion, with tons of different schools of thought and teachings on all sorts of subjects. I don't think it's fair to say that they dislike life, or give up on it, or to think of them all as meek pacifists. I mean, one of their more important holy texts, the Bhagavad Gita, takes place in the middle of a war, and Krishna tells Arjuna that he needs to do his duty as a warrior and fight. The Bhagavad Gita also goes into detail of many different ways to worship and live life - which yes, includes the give up all your things and go meditate all day on a mountain sort of thing, but that is just one of many. I mean for sure there are going to be differences in the religions, big ones at times, but they do have things in common as well. I guess in the end, even if they are very different, does it really matter?
                Thanks for explaining this. It makes so much more sense now. I was just copying what the others were doing without really understanding why. That said, I do not and won't ever consider myself a reconstructionist, but it's nice to have a working belief system and a set of ideals to live by. I'm trying to construct these things in a way I imagine my gods will appreciate, by trying to worship them as they once were.
                夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

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                  #9
                  Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

                  See, everyone always tries to cite the fact that the Gita took place on a battlefield as proof that it's not otherworldly. To me, all that proves is the Gita is a big self-contradiction. If the Pandavas (I believe Arjuna was a Pandava; I may be wrong) really followed the "do not act for the fruit" and especially "do not seek the good and avoid the bad" advice, they would let themselves be conquered. What does it matter? Defending yourself from invasion is seeking the good of sovereignty and avoiding the bad of foreign tyranny. But even Krishna says that you have to maintain your body and fulfill your Dharma (in this context, basically your duty to society). But why? Why fulfill any duty at all? Why would society even exist? Why maintain your body, for that matter? That is seeking the good of survival and avoiding the bad of death.

                  So to me, it just looks like a big contradiction.

                  -Valhalla

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                    #10
                    Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

                    Originally posted by Gardenia View Post
                    That's because both cultures stem from the proto-Indo-Europeans. There are quite a few reconstructionists these days looking at all the Indo-European cultures to try to find common practices, to see if there are gaps that can be filled in that way. It's pretty interesting stuff, IMO. The Germanic cultures have the same roots. You can see a lot of the same repeating ideas, symbols, and beings when you compare their mythologies.


                    I also agree with you as far as Hinduism goes. We have to remember, this is a huuuge religion, with tons of different schools of thought and teachings on all sorts of subjects. I don't think it's fair to say that they dislike life, or give up on it, or to think of them all as meek pacifists. I mean, one of their more important holy texts, the Bhagavad Gita, takes place in the middle of a war, and Krishna tells Arjuna that he needs to do his duty as a warrior and fight. The Bhagavad Gita also goes into detail of many different ways to worship and live life - which yes, includes the give up all your things and go meditate all day on a mountain sort of thing, but that is just one of many. I mean for sure there are going to be differences in the religions, big ones at times, but they do have things in common as well. I guess in the end, even if they are very different, does it really matter?
                    You brought up a good point that I'd forgotten. The influence of those ideas does ring throughout lots of Europe.

                    That said, isn't there also a warrior class in the caste system of India (I'm assuming since we're discussing Hinduism we are discussing India)? Didn't they have the idea of being accomplished in weaponry as well as know when to use them based on the vedas?
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                    "...leave me curled up in my ball,
                    surrounded by plush, downy things,
                    ill prepared, but willing,
                    to descend."

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                      #11
                      Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

                      Valhalla,


                      A few months ago I worked nights for a week with a Hindu, we spent hours pouring over our beliefs. One thing that struck me more than anything else was the Hinduism is for the people born into it, ie it is not a universal religion, like Shinto. It is an ancient religion that is still strong today despite a world that borders on nihilism in many western countries. I have no desire to be Hindi but I respect it's values.


                      The Odinism you are talking about is not an ancient religion. It is a an amalgamation of Wicca and Christianity with heathen gods and goddesses superimposed into it's structure. It is a shallow albeit well-intentioned belief structure. Even the term 'Odinism' is questionable, the ancient heathen peoples followed cultic practices not a universal religion. The super-macho pseudo-viking religion you are referring to has very little history. The NNV were thought up in the 1960's, Valhalla is just one possible afterlife, read HRED's Road to Hel. This whole 'never surrendering to a god' BS is typical of the problems modern heathens face when trying to discern what is relevant and what is not. If you treat the holy ones with such poor regard then you are hardly a religious man at all. In fact the Odinism you are referring to is more nihilistic than it is religious.


                      If you want my advice, which you probably don't (!), stop researching other religions and look further into your own. You have a modern grasp on heathenry not an ancient one. Read books by scholars on our ancient past and not modern Odinist philosophers.


                      Paul

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                        #12
                        "The idea is to be whispering, and not to gain the attention from the flock, but to get attention from the individuals. That's why I relate it to whispering. It's not something you can put on a big scale; you can't get sheep to attend to it. You need to have people who can stand for themselves. It is important to have a lot of space for yourself to be able to grow strong branches, which can stand in the most extreme surroundings."

                        Gaahl

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                          #13
                          Re: Odinism vs. Hinduism

                          I like what Paul had to say. One part in particular stood out-- work on one religion at a time. You seem to be stirring yourself up needlessly by taking two things that are so different and trying to make them agree.

                          I will add (and Paul may not agree with me), you might want to take a step back and not take either quite so literally. Sacred texts like those you've been referencing from Hindu( much less the secular poetry, written down generations after Christianity began to take over Scandinavia, that is usually the only record we have of Norse stories) is imperfect. It is one, maybe two sources that survived the ages. It does not represent the full of human experience, or even simply the whole of belief from the era it represents. Now add time to that--thousands of years of Indian history, The viking era through bronze age and corded ware culture beliefs.

                          To take it too seriously, too literally, is to see a snapshot and think you've just witnessed the entire lifespan of the person it was taken of. Look for truth, look for lessons, try to see the world through different eyes. Don't wear yourself out trying to make two different cultures, with different world views and needs, agree. Different points from both will probably stick out to you. Things that don't help you at this point in your personal journey(or even seem silly or counter-intuitive) may make sense and be treasured at some other point in your life.
                          Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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