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    Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

    Science is not religion. And EVOLUTION is not a religion either.

    *split from that other thread on like indoctrinating kids into religion or something like that*
    *edits are from me changing the title*
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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    #2
    Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
    Science is not religion. And EVOLUTION is not a religion either.
    This. Most definitely this!
    Allow me to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket. ~ Captain Jack Sparrow

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      #3
      Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
      Science is not religion. And EVOLUTION is not a religion either.
      Well, I don't remember all that much from my biology classes, so I try to remember correctly. The evolution theory is about the ape evolving to human right? ape>homo erectus>homo sapiens IIRC. Some late evidence has showed historians that the homo sapiens hunted down and ate the homo erectus. This is something that scienctists discovered lately looking at the bones, skulls, and a good example of how science and history continues to change by new discoveries. Almost everything in science is relative. It continually changes, and most people still call these discoveries proof. How can something be proof and facts if it continues to change over time? They said they had proof that drinking milk is good for your bones, but that has changed too. I think we really should consider science to be a belief. Especially when compared to the occult knowledge from thousands of years, that for example already knew that the earth was round instead of flat, for thousands of years (or more?).

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        #4
        Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

        Since I can't help but comment on this and no the original topic, should this be split into another thread - "Is science a religion"?

        Originally posted by -Emotions-
        Well, I don't remember all that much from my biology classes, so I try to remember correctly. The evolution theory is about the ape evolving to human right? ape>homo erectus>homo sapiens IIRC.
        Here's a good explanation of evolution: "Evolution is the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms through successive generations." What you have described is a proposed prediction that remains to be tested by finding further evidence. The prediction is either held up or changed depending on the evidence. That is essentially a good description of all of science.

        Some late evidence has showed historians that the homo sapiens hunted down and ate the homo erectus. This is something that scienctists discovered lately looking at the bones, skulls, and a good example of how science and history continues to change by new discoveries.
        This does not change the fact of evolution. This is how science is conducted. You predict, you test, you modify your understandings. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

        Almost everything in science is relative. It continually changes, and most people still call these discoveries proof. How can something be proof and facts if it continues to change over time? They said they had proof that drinking milk is good for your bones, but that has changed too. I think we really should consider science to be a belief.
        But science is backed up by evidence - you don't have to have faith. As the body of evidence grows for a particular scientific field, the predictions and our knowledge change. I don't see anything wrong with that. And it has nothing to do with faith.

        Especially when compared to the occult knowledge from thousands of years, that for example already knew that the earth was round instead of flat, for thousands of years (or more?).
        Evidence many thousands of years ago pointed toward a flat Earth (it looks flat from our perspective). But as evidence was gathered that it was in fact curved, science changed. I still don't see what's wrong with that, why it shouldn't be taught to children and how it can be compared to faith.
        The Pagan Porch - a Pagan Homesteading forum

        Sand Holler Farm Blog - aren't you just dying to know what I do all day?

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          #5
          Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

          Not to be catty, but Emotions, thinking before you type and researching FACTS, not just spewing your own disjointed opinion will probably get you further among people on this board.
          If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.
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            #6
            Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

            Originally posted by thalassa
            Science is not religion. And EVOLUTION is not a religion either.
            Also, for the record, atheism and acceptance of Darwin's theory should not be linked (as in "atheist/Darwinism&quot.

            Some atheists accept Darwin, some don't (although, granted, many do). Some people who accept Darwin are atheists, some aren't. One doesn't equate with the other, in either direction.

            Darwin himself was not an atheist.
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              #7
              Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

              Also...there really isn't any such thing as "Darwinism". Charles Darwin put forth a theory of evolution (one of many that existed at the time) based on the mechanism of natural selection. Some of Charles Darwin's ideas are just one part of evolutionary theory. Evolution is not a religious idea. It is not abstract, it is not based on subjective belief. Science in general, and evolution in particular are based upon data that is testable.

              Or, to use my handy dandy chart:

              (evolution is very firmly in the red zone)
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                #8
                Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                After seeing where the topic had gone, I went to a dictionary (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary) to see what it had to say about "religion." Of the four definitions it offered, only the fourth (the one least commonly used) might be applied to science - but it would be applied wrongly.

                That definition goes: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.

                Since BOTH "ardor" (which might apply) and "faith" (which doesn't apply) are required, Webster's definition can't be used to classify science in with religions. (It might work for atheism, though...).

                What I'd like to see would be a reasonable definition of "religion" which would cause "science" to be included as a member of the set "religion."

                A "reasonable definition" needs to be neither too narrow (i.e.: a religion is Christianity - which excludes too many other possibilities) nor too broad (i.e.: A religion is any set of beliefs - which would turn my belief that daily toothbrushing is good for me into a religion). It also can't make exception for "special cases" (i.e: religion a set of beliefs in a supreme being, except for science, which is a religion even though it doesn't, 'cause I say so - which is wrong for obvious reasons).

                Until I can see such a definition, I'll consider the claim that science is a religion to be, ipso facto, unfounded.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #9
                  Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                  Science is a process of thought and ideas based on critical thinking, research and methodology. Religion is a process of thought and ideas based on faith and/or doctrine.
                  I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive. They can influence each other and one can be religious and be hip to modern science (of course many on here are).

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                    #10
                    Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                    Originally posted by B. de Corbin
                    What I'd like to see would be a reasonable definition of "religion" which would cause "science" to be included as a member of the set "religion."

                    <snip>

                    Until I can see such a definition, I'll consider the claim that science is a religion to be, ipso facto, unfounded.
                    Excellent reasoning here! While language does evolve and change continuously, you can't just make up your own definitions, or special cases. Science, by definition, is not religion.
                    The Pagan Porch - a Pagan Homesteading forum

                    Sand Holler Farm Blog - aren't you just dying to know what I do all day?

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                      #11
                      Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                      ya know a lot of what we "know" from science is THEORY, which means not proven but its our good guess. People have FAITH that they are true. though nobody can prove it. If its proven its a scientific fact. I from personal preference wouldn't call science a religion but it is definitely a belief. and never a fact as a whole.

                      even the big bang theory is disproven by science itself.

                      niether matter nor energy can be created nor destroyed, it can only change forms.
                      what started the big bang? where did the matter come from?

                      I believe that the only way to have a true understanding of anything is to realize that both religion and science must coexist.
                      "Sometimes bad things happen, and theres nothing you can do about it, so why worry?" ~ Timon

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                        #12
                        Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                        [quote author=Dufonce link=topic=632.msg9271#msg9271 date=1288727645]
                        ya know a lot of what we "know" from science is THEORY, which means not proven but its our good guess. People have FAITH that they are true. though nobody can prove it. If its proven its a scientific fact. I from personal preference wouldn't call science a religion but it is definitely a belief. and never a fact as a whole.

                        even the big bang theory is disproven by science itself.

                        niether matter nor energy can be created nor destroyed, it can only change forms.
                        what started the big bang? where did the matter come from?

                        I believe that the only way to have a true understanding of anything is to realize that both religion and science must coexist.
                        [/quote]

                        While I definitely subscribe to the premise that religion and science should really coexist (my religion doesn't inhibit science, at all, nor does science inhibit my religion), the idea that science is no more than a belief is a misnomer.

                        I know the argument. I know it very well. But the end result is that science deals with non-ethereal... religion is almost nothing but. You need exactly zero faith in science to believe evidence and facts. You need complete faith to believe in [your chosen] religion. They are not, never have been, and never will be the same thing. The words are not, by any stretch, interchangeable.

                        But they're also not mutually exclusive.




                        "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                        "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                        "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                        "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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                          #13
                          Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                          [quote author=Dufonce link=topic=632.msg9271#msg9271 date=1288727645]
                          ya know a lot of what we "know" from science is THEORY, which means not proven but its our good guess. People have FAITH that they are true.
                          [/quote]

                          Faith: something that is believed especially with strong convictions (websters).

                          If people had true FAITH in scientific theories, then they would never change because, by definition, the scientists would firmly believe it to be true and would never challenge the theory. Instead, people use theories as working models until a new theory supersedes the old one. Scientific theories are different than the colloquially use of the word theory. And theories are meant to be tested. Ideas that are arrived upon through faith are not meant to be tested.
                          The Pagan Porch - a Pagan Homesteading forum

                          Sand Holler Farm Blog - aren't you just dying to know what I do all day?

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                            #14
                            Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                            While I can see the connection between science and religion, it is important to understand that they are different topics.

                            Using the science of mathematics we can say that two apples plus two apples equals four apples. And using religion we can say that if you have four apples then it's good to give one or some of them to the poor who can't afford food.

                            It is also possible to use one of them to practice the other. You can use the scientific way of thinking in choosing what religion to follow and to determine what is true and what is false.

                            You can also practice your religion when doing science, in terms of ethics. For example, most scientists choose not to do certain experiments on humans because it would be too harmful.

                            [4:82]

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                              #15
                              Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

                              ^^ All very good points! I love the apples-to-giving-away-apples comparison. It's not even comparing two types of fruit.

                              Here's an interesting way to look at religion and science:

                              "The non-overlapping magisteria (NOMA) principle therefore divides the magisterium of science to cover "the empirical realm: what the Universe is made of (fact) and why does it work in this way (theory). The magisterium of religion extends over questions of ultimate meaning and moral value. These two magisteria do not overlap, nor do they encompass all inquiry." (gould)
                              The Pagan Porch - a Pagan Homesteading forum

                              Sand Holler Farm Blog - aren't you just dying to know what I do all day?

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