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    Food Arguments

    I'm having a lot of difficulty with this and I really need some advice.

    The problem is, my boyfriend and I like totally different things. We also have really different ideas related to food. First off, I love to cook, and sometimes, I love to cook complicated things. He sees this as a huge waste of time, and doesn't understand why I don't just make "simple food". Sometimes, I just like to have fancy dishes with lots of ingredients. I don't do this more than once a week (usually every 2), but when I do, I enjoy it. It takes a long time, but I fully enjoy every minute of cooking it. I tried to explain that this is a hobby, and that I don't need to sew my own clothes or garden either (hobbies he finds totally acceptable) and that many people see those things as a "waste of time" but he won't accept it. He insists that I could be doing "better" things with my time. This bothers me, because I'm not cooking like this because I don't know how to make simpler things or don't know how to manage my time. I do it because I feel like it and it makes me happy, much like my other hobbies make me happy.

    The second problem is expectations. We both have very different upbringings. He's northern German, and I'm Canadian/Southern German. Both sides of my background eat very, very different food from that found here (yes, Southern German food is quite different from Northern German food). There are some little things like salt use...I don't use a lot of salt in my cooking and prefer to flavor with spices and herbs. I think eating too much salt is truly unhealthy, and if I use things like canned tomatoes, there's a ton of salt in that anyway. I keep insisting that he should put salt on his food as he likes it at the table, but he likes it better "cooked in". On the other hand, I can BARELY eat the food he makes. Sometimes, it's so salty that I wake up in the middle of the night dehydrated, nauseous, and sweating, even if I try to drink a lot of water. He insists that my food is far less salty than restaurants, and it is a bit, but what he makes is far more. He's a smoker, and I wonder if he just can't taste it, and needs saltier food to make up for the loss of taste due to his smoking? Also, I know that one is easily accustomed to salt and using a lot can be a bit addictive. I'm not accustomed to so much of it though, and I just can't seem to do it, and I don't want to. There is also a lot of argument over what is "normal". For me, making potato pancakes and sausage isn't "easy" and that's not a simple meal for me to make. On the other hand, making a basic curry is a quick, easy meal that is "normal" for me. I'm trying to learn to cook more things he's used to, and he cooks sometimes as well (he tends to clean more and I tend to cook more). I keep trying to tell him that on the other hand, if we're going to live together, he has to get used to more "different" food.

    Lastly, I can be a bit of a fussy eater. A lot of this is due to my tons of food allergies. He had difficulty with my food allergies before, but he's starting to accept them. I think he's just not used to it and when I met him, he thought food allergies were a myth. He's seen me have a few mild reactions (and eventually, he'll probably see a serious one) and knows better now. I also have some sensitivities. I somehow bloat really easily, and I get a bit nauseous if I eat too much of certain foods. These are: salt, refined sugar, refined starch (especially wheat....I can eat more spelt and rye than wheat...I think it's the gluten overload). These are all things he eats a LOT of....far more than I find healthy or can handle. He doesn't understand why I don't want to cook like this. I eat more vegetables and meat and keep my portions of starches small. I use little sugar and little salt. Sometimes, I'll make a dessert and have sugar in that. I know I'm a bit picky sometimes, because I don't like overly salty foods, and I'm not the biggest fan of pork and potatoes. He claims he's "not picky at all", but somehow, every time I make something, he complains. It's not salty enough, it's not "normal", it's too mixed up (pumpkin soup, something every other German person I know loves, so it's not a question of "normal" here), it's too complicated, it's too spicy, it's got too many herbs, it's got something in it he doesn't like (brussel sprouts, asparagus, pumpkin, squash, sweet potato). We got in a HUGE fight over this on Tuesday, and I ended up crying and needing some time to myself. I'm just getting so tired of the constant criticism. I grew up with my dad criticizing EVERYTHING my mom made and it was really stressful for me and my brother, because it visibly upset my mom. Now, the same thing is happening to me and I just don't know how to deal with it. My mom said that if it continues, I should just flat out say that we should each cook our own food and not share, but I do like eating meals together. I just don't see how I'm going to end up being a perfect "normal" Northern German woman and only cook cabbage, pork, and potatoes every single day. Even his mom doesn't do that (he told me he complained at home too).

    This isn't a problem all the time, and I wonder if it's stress-related. It'll happen for a few weeks and then he'll be more accepting for a while. When he does do it, it's BAD, and he'll even reference things I've made in the past that I hated. I find it really hurtful, and I've tried my best to communicate how hurtful it is. I've gotten a LOT of compliments on my cooking, and I don't think it's just friends being nice. I've been asked for recipes, had friends go back for thirds, etc. Now, suddenly, I feel like I can't do anything right, and I'm constantly being criticized. I don't know how to deal with it or communicate further how hurtful it is. I told him that he should feel free to express his feelings, but sometimes he has to gage better what's important and what isn't. Sometimes, he has to let the unimportant things like food go.

    Also, are a lot of men like this? I have very little experience with boyfriends, but judging from my dad, my brother, and a few past guys I've dated, they can be very picky and are also not at all aware of it. If this is the case, how do you girls deal with it?

    #2
    Re: Food Arguments

    I don't know that its men thatare picky in general, I think it's more of a people thing. If he just happens to be picky in general, like just picky-picky it will be hard to overcome the food thing, and it may always be that way. It may seem worse because you are both a bit on the picky side, my husband and I struggle with this alot. He also has a different food up-bringing and different ideas about what is polite regarding food. It is something you will have to decide if it is worth fighting over. If there is something you really want to eat, and you are cooking it, go ahead and cook it, if he doesn't like it have him order chinese. There are things I don't cook or eat anymore because I know he will not eat it, or that he will complain. He is the same he will not cook certain things anymore because I just won't eat it. The bit with the salt is difficult, because you are right salt is way addictive, if you are used to it you crave it, like sugar, and there is soooooo much of it on so much food, especially anything processed, it could blow his mind how much salt he probably doesn't even know he eats. I think salting after cooking is the better option for that case, (something the hubby and I still disagree on... so I really do feel you.) Try sea salt, it is a bit stronger tasting than table salt, see if the fancy salts do anything for him.
    Keep in mind some of it may be just what he is used to, and maybe yall need to find a happy medium, if both of you are making sacrifices, neigther should feel put upon. But don't let him belittle you because he is grumpy, when it happens don't let it go, point it out, and put an end to it now, or it could escalate and be even harder to deal with in the future.
    http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

    But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
    ~Jim Butcher

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      #3
      Re: Food Arguments

      Ummmm....I really don't know any guys personally that are like this. Even my alcoholic, perfectionist, emotionally abusive father knew better than to say something about whatever experimental concoction my mother played food chemistry with dinner. My grandpa told my dad said something obnoxious and my mom threw the plate of food at him and said something along the lines of "then you can start cooking for yourself, and while you're at it, clean up the mess you made me make". My grandma told him what an ass he was, and that you never insult your wife's cooking (or cleaning), period. If you don't like it, do it yourself. ...all the other guys I know are mostly Navy. After living and eating on a ship, you will eat anything as long as you can cover it up with hot sauce. And you'll like it. You might like some more or less than others, but you like it...because its all you have.

      Honestly, I'd tell him to shut up or make his own meals because I don't like his cooking either (I's a bitch like that)...you could say something nicer like "You know what...you don't like my cooking and I don't like yours. We obviously just have different nutritional expectations of our food and taste profiles to enjoy them with. So, we'll eat together at ________ time, but each make our own meals, at least once or twice a week. The rest of the time, we can fend for ourselves." I personally wouldn't be that nice---I'd just start making my own meals for me ahead of time and tell him to cook for himdamnself if he didn't like it. But that's just me.

      Living together is a compromise...but being overly critical and insulting is rude and disrespectful. You don't compromise with disrespect. At the same time, getting used to each other takes time...bumps like this will happen and take time to resolve.
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #4
        Re: Food Arguments

        oh, look! an apropos NPR article!!
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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          #5
          Re: Food Arguments

          Haha I posted a New York Times article based on the same book on Facebook. I hope he read it. It was 14 pages long and all in English, but it was very informative.

          Neither of us eats a lot of processed foods, but even using canned tomatoes and buying bakery bread means a lot of added salt. I do use sea salt (I just like it better, and to me it IS stronger). He thinks that it's just American food that has so much salt in it, but if you look at the nutritional information on the cans (I always do because my allergies made it a habit), canned tomatoes or tomato paste will often add a third of your salt content for the day. He thinks I must be sodium deficient because it takes me a couple of months to get through a shaker of salt, but I worry he eats far too much (we went through one in less than a month, and he's not here every day). I don't want to nag him, and I'll eat his salty food and not complain about it, but I wish I could get him to see how bad it is for him. He also eats a TON of candy. Like, a TON. He'll eat more candy in a week than I will in 2 months. I did get him to be aware about high fructose corn syrup (he argued with me at first, but I notice that he's making an effort to buy things that don't have it), but refined sugars, or too much sugar in general, aren't great for you either. And it's a LOT of empty calories. I do what I do with myself and put them in a drawer (also because it's hard for me to not eat it if it's not out of sight, and I started to gain weight, and that's not a healthy kind of weight gain). It does make him eat a bit less, but he'll often take a bag with him when he goes out and eat like 300 g of candy (100g= about 300 calories). He thinks I'm neurotic, but I don't think I am. I'm not the only person in the world who thinks an overload of sodium, too much sugar, and too much of the wrong kinds of fats are a bad idea.

          - - - Updated - - -

          I also find that, like most people, he tends to throw my weight back at me when it comes to this stuff. Like, I'm skinny, so therefore I must not eat enough.

          Skinny is my body type. If you look at my dad's side of the family, they're all thin-boned and slim people. I guess "slight" is the way you'd describe us. Compared to my dad and brother, I'm totally curvy. Even my mom was very slim before she had kids (though less slight of frame), and said that she ate a lot of junk food during and after her pregnancies and that's how she got overweight. I've gained weight a few times in my life, and it wasn't a good change for me. It wasn't just that I was bigger than before; it was always accompanied by a total lack of energy, digestion problems, bad skin, etc. To me, these are not signals of good health. When I eat how I eat now, I'm full, have energy, get sick less often, am happier, etc. It's not about being slim...that's just a byproduct. When I weigh 105-110 lbs, I tend to be healthier and happier. I'm also short, so that weight puts me right at the bottom of an "average" BMI, but it's still "average", and when you account for my narrow bone structure, it's not that bad. I still have fat on my body.

          I hate it when people throw my weight at me like that. I don't eat the way I do to be skinny. I'm skinny because of my lifestyle (I exercise daily) and how I eat.

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            #6
            Re: Food Arguments

            The thing is you can't make health changes for him, he will rebel harder the more you insist on it. Having it affect you is bad, and explain that to him. But telling hime that he needs to change to be healthy just will not work especially if he thinks he is healthy. He has to want to change those eating habits for it to work.
            http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

            But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
            ~Jim Butcher

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              #7
              Re: Food Arguments

              Yeah, I do understand that. I don't really bother anymore, because it's like the smoking...he has to want to do it himself. But what gets me is when he tries to tell me that -I- should eat more salt, starch, and sugar, as if those are some sort of essential food groups that trump things like fruit and meat. I get that we need those things to live, but given the modern diet, it's rare that anyone is deficient in those. I eat a ton of fruit, so I'm good with sugar. I do put small amounts of salt in my food and there is a lot of salt in even basic foods these days, and don't even get me started on starches. If you eat bread or rice at all, you're pretty much good there. Candy is not a food group, and I don't consider it remotely necessary for my nutrition. I feel my food tastes fine with the amount of salt that I eat, and I don't suffer from a lot of heartburn and bloating.

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                #8
                Re: Food Arguments

                When I met my husband he was an extremely picky eater. His mother was the only cook in their home, and she only uses salt and paprika to season things. If his mom didn't like a food, no one got to even try it, even when they went to restaurants. She's still that way - if we all go to a new restaurant for a family get-together, and his mother doesn't see anything on the menu she thinks she'll like, we've all got to leave and find somewhere else to eat. In my childhood, my parents had a wide and varied diet, and I never turned anything down. I don't think I can honestly think of a food that either of my parents disliked. It wasn't about region or upbringing or health for them, it was mainly because they both lived through some lean times and any food was better than boot leather, period.

                My husband would only eat spaghetti, pizza and burgers when I met him. I introduced him to 'real' food slowly, like you'd introduce a baby to new foods. I'd order or make something for myself, let him order whatever he was eating or make his separate dinner, and let him try whatever was on my plate. If he didn't like it, fine, I got to eat an entire meal for a change. I wasn't in the mood to try and force him into more variety, or change his eating habits or fight with him. But for me, food isn't the enemy - food is nourishing for the soul as well as the body, and the kitchen should be a place of love and nurturing, not a battle-zone. Yes, I'm concerned for his health and well-being, but not to the point where I'm going to ruin my own dinner or appetite in the process.

                Feeding my husband (who cannot cook anything on his own and would literally starve w/out fast food if no one was around to cook for him) can be challenging. Especially now that he's gotten a garlic allergy, which has taken his favorite foods pretty much off the menu completely (pizza and spaghetti). We don't eat out any more, everything I make is from the home kitchen, and I don't even have the luxury of trying things like prepared tomato sauce because 'all natural flavorings' may include garlic or onions. Usually, if there's something I want to eat that he doesn't, I make it for myself alongside whatever I'm feeding him. I'm a fan of easy-to-make foods myself whereas he runs on marinara sauce which has turned into an all-day process for me. I also prefer my foods spicier & hotter, while he likes simpler flavors, so even if we're both eating steak, I'll make mine in a separate pan so I can lay on the heat.

                Sometimes, you have to give in a little to have a successful relationship. You may need to make separate meals when you eat, but neither one of you should have to put up with hyper-critical treatment. He may feel that you talking to him about his salt and sugar intake is hurtful (even though you feel you're doing it in his best interest) so he may feel he has the right to criticize your cooking. It might be worth it to try and find things to do together for awhile that don't involve food at all.
                The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                  #9
                  Re: Food Arguments

                  Yeah maybe it's a good idea. I'll see if this continues (he made me cry the other day and sometimes when that happens, he seems to change his behavior slowly). If it does, I'll nicely explain that maybe it's best if we each fend for ourselves, and if he wants to eat something I make, he's welcome to, but he can't complain about it and vice versa. I'll leave his salt and sugar stuff alone for the time being....I'll put it in the same category as his smoking. I hate it, and I'm concerned about it, but I can't get him to change by nagging so I'll just hope he decides to be healthy on his own someday.

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                    #10
                    Re: Food Arguments

                    The problem with arguing over food is that it gives me indigestion and then I don't enjoy it anyway. Just as when my children were small I insisted there was never any arguing during meal times. Before and after - yes. But not during.

                    For me, food is about joy and not just nutrition. Plus you usually get your own way better with a bit of give and take. That said, the criticism is a bit worrying because it's not really about food content, is it? It's about how you spend your time, how he thinks you should spend your time.

                    And that's a different matter entirely....
                    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                      #11
                      Re: Food Arguments

                      Yeah that criticism bothers me. We have a running argument that we're trying to work through that involves him wanting me to help him do things in the day, but not voicing it. I can't just get up and help him in the middle of the weekday. I told him that while I'm home, I work at home, and unless he wants me to be working all evening or weekend, he has to let me work if he's around in the day. I can help him for an hour or so, because working at home does give me a flexible schedule, but he has to let me know ahead of time so I can make the time without compromising my work. On my end, I know that I'm not the world's best person at cleaning, and that's something I have to work on.

                      I think he sees me being at home all day, and thinks I can do this and that, and then gets frustrated when I'm writing on the computer (my job) or doing one of my hobbies like cooking afterwards. I do need to make more time for cleaning, and that's a big thing I need to work at. However, I've NEVER been able to fit in cleaning spontaneously, not even as a child. I also can't handle the concept of cleaning the house...it needs to be broken down into tasks. I'm easily distracted, so unless I have a time and a task, I can't really deal with it. I've been trying to communicate this better.

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                        #12
                        Re: Food Arguments

                        Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                        It does make him eat a bit less, but he'll often take a bag with him when he goes out and eat like 300 g of candy (100g= about 300 calories). He thinks I'm neurotic, but I don't think I am. I'm not the only person in the world who thinks an overload of sodium, too much sugar, and too much of the wrong kinds of fats are a bad idea.
                        Okay...depending on how often he does this, 300 cal here and there in an otherwise fit and active person of average size is not a big deal. Nutritionists generally recommend 10% of your calorie intake, on average, can (and should) be from "discretionary calories". I'm assuming here a bit that he is otherwise fit and active...but, unless this is a daily thing...its not a big deal. And, as a guy, depending on age, height, etc...he get more calories than you do to maintain whatever weight he is at. Especially if you only weigh about 105-110. Your nutritional needs and his are not likely the same.

                        Let him do his own thing, and you do yours for a while, until you settle in. But freaking be honest. If you think his food is too salty and you don't like it, tell him. Obviously he feels that it is appropriate to tell you. Just don't nag, because that will make him worse.

                        To be honest, it sort of sounds like you are being a bit neurotic about this (in your most recent post)--not because I think you are actually being neurotic, but because it seems like you feel you are needing to be overly defensive about your own food choices and yourself. I'm guessing some of this is from the overly critical criticism factor (which is totally unacceptable and should be dealt with), but is there any chance that any of it is from other stuff/past history that has nothing to do with him? I'm really not trying to be obnoxious here...so bear with me...but most people have an unhealthy relationship with food, whether it be willfully ignoring the fact that they are eating too much of the bad things or obsessing over eating too much of the good things. I understand that you need to watch what you eat because of your allergies...but not everyone else does, and it sounds like you guys are on totally different ends of the spectrum here. And if that is the case, then you BOTH need to work on your selves before you can find some common ground.

                        Assuming that is even the goal here. But if it is the goal, then you need compromise and compromise means honesty...not just eating whatever it is that he makes to keep the peace and him doing the same. If its not, you both need to come to an agreement where you leave your diet to yourself and his to him and make your own meals...and don't nag each other about it.
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #13
                          Re: Food Arguments

                          I guess I should specify...100 g = 300 cal. If you eat an entire 300 g bag, that's 900 calories.

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                            #14
                            Re: Food Arguments

                            Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                            However, I've NEVER been able to fit in cleaning spontaneously, not even as a child. I also can't handle the concept of cleaning the house...it needs to be broken down into tasks. I'm easily distracted, so unless I have a time and a task, I can't really deal with it. I've been trying to communicate this better.
                            What about making a schedule and posting it?

                            Like...certain rooms get cleaned on certain days (take turns), and certain daily tasks get done daily (taking turns)? For us, with kids...ugh. Once you let something go, your whole freaking house is shot.

                            We set am alarm clock for cleaning on the days one of us are home...at 11 and 2:30, the alarm goes off for him to do an hour of cleaning off the list of stuff that needs to be done for the day, and then in the evening when both of us are home, we split the daily chores (and make the kids help).
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                              #15
                              Re: Food Arguments

                              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                              What about making a schedule and posting it?

                              Like...certain rooms get cleaned on certain days (take turns), and certain daily tasks get done daily (taking turns)? For us, with kids...ugh. Once you let something go, your whole freaking house is shot.

                              We set am alarm clock for cleaning on the days one of us are home...at 11 and 2:30, the alarm goes off for him to do an hour of cleaning off the list of stuff that needs to be done for the day, and then in the evening when both of us are home, we split the daily chores (and make the kids help).
                              yeah that's actually what I suggested. He doesn't think we should have to organize it, but he's willing to give it a try.

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