Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Defining "Pagan"

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    The bad part is that Pagan and Paganism have come to be recognized by many as a religion vice simply an umbrella term. It seems to be part and parcel to the pick and choose creation of ones spiritual / religious beliefs that mark paganism today. In many ways it's like "Shamanism" is being seen as a religion / spiritual pathway as well vice it's normal belief of being a way of life that incorporates the spiritual / religious beliefs of the people and serves as an extra facet of understanding the divine and its influence.

    Even to the point of using the capital or lower case P to reflect P = religion / spiritual pathway while p = umbrella term. I'm sure you already knew that but sometimes I think it just needs to be repeated. Have to admit I have difficulty when people claim pagan = religion / spiritual vice a collective umbrella term but hey the times they are a changing as the song says.
    A lot of people say "hints" when they mean "hence"
    A lot of people say "for all intensive purposes" when they mean "for all intents and purposes."
    A lot of people say "can" when they mean "may."
    A lot of people say "barely" when they mean "recently."
    A lot of people misuse language.

    It doesn't make them right.
    "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

    Comment


      Re: Defining "Pagan"

      Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
      A lot of people say "hints" when they mean "hence"
      A lot of people say "for all intensive purposes" when they mean "for all intents and purposes."
      A lot of people say "can" when they mean "may."
      A lot of people say "barely" when they mean "recently."
      A lot of people misuse language.

      It doesn't make them right.
      I wouldn't dispute any of those though I tend to be more forgiving on a forum or chat board than say a formal paper or research presentation. Though if one looks to nearly any daily news paper or such grammar fails in many ways. Then auto corrections can change many a word from proper to something else. My own personal pet peeve is plane for plain and alter for altar. But I am also aware that when one lives in a glass house it's best not to throw stones, I know I make similar mistakes due to simple haste and lack of attention, ignorance or simply not caring at times.
      I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

      Comment


        Re: Defining "Pagan"

        Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
        A lot of people misuse language.
        Language also changes.

        Otherwise, "You are so gay" would just mean that you are really happy and "You are being retarded" would indicate that you have been held back from some task (circa 1480...in the 1700's it would have meant that you had been slowed down by something).
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

        Comment


          Re: Defining "Pagan"

          I am aware that there is not "The Pagan Religion" and am sorry if I did not make that clear. I have tried to explain that it is a diversity of beliefs that do have some common connections. Its diversity makes it more difficult to define but makes the definition no less important. In his book Triumph of the Moon Ronald Hutten gives a detailed history of the development of paganism up through the 1990s. He sites the Pagan Federations attempt to define a Pagan in 1989 as
          1. The acceptance of the inherent divinity of the natural world, an a rejection of any notion of the creation of that world by a power outside itself.
          2. The rejection of any concept of a divinely prescribed law for human behavior, and therefor the concepts of sin and salvation.
          3. The acceptance that divinity can be both female and male.
          There current website simplified this to define a Pagan as "A follower of a polytheistic or pantheistic nature-worshipping religion."
          Hutton proposed from his observations the five additional features - 1." It aims to draw out and enhance the divinity within human beings." 2. "It abolishes the traditional westerner distinction between religion and magic." 3. "It is a mystery religion, or set of mystery religions." 4. "Its essence lies in the creative performance of ritual." 5. "It is eclectic and protean." These are just some of his ideas upon his experience writing the book. Paganism continues to evolve and has grown since his book was written.

          Despite the difficulties to define the word Pagan, discussing what it is still has a purpose to increase understanding when you discuss what is in common as well as the differences between pagan beliefs.

          Comment


            Re: Defining "Pagan"

            Originally posted by magusjinx View Post
            I am a Jimist ... I believe in me ... I am responsible for what I do ... And if I don't like what I do I send myself to my room for a time out ...
            And after all these years I still am ... PAGAN is (for me) too hard to define because of the variety of so many different paths within ... It is like asking if someone is Christian ... What favor Christian do you refer to ... PAGAN is very broad ... Almost a catch-all for non-Abrahamic beliefs ... At least that is my take on it ...
            Last edited by magusphredde; 26 Sep 2015, 01:10. Reason: speeling
            I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


            Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

            The Chief nodded in agreement.

            The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

            The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

            Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."



            Comment


              Re: Defining "Pagan"

              Personally I take the technical definition.

              The technicalist would say a pagan is defined as anyone who doesn't follow an Abrahamic religion in Europe and the Near East. Yes its root basically means "rube" but, let's face it, it holds no currency with that definition. Virtually nobody uses that definition.

              If you want to wear the badge 'pagan', it cannot be the defining point of your beliefs, because 'pagan' was never used specifically. Anyone who didn't convert to Christianity was one and so if you want to use the term pagan from a spiritual perspective, it is, by default, defined by non-Christianity. You can use that to its advantage, if you want, but don't pretend it is anything else.

              Of course there will always be those who say it means whatever you want it to mean but frankly those people are sociopaths. The whole point of language is to communicate easily. By suggesting personal definitions are as valid as universally accepted ones, well... you may as well just go and speak a different language.
              I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
              Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
              But that day you know I left my money
              And I thought of you only
              All that copper glowing fine

              Comment


                Re: Defining "Pagan"

                Originally posted by Briton View Post
                Of course there will always be those who say it means whatever you want it to mean but frankly those people are sociopaths.
                Briton, if you're going to make ridiculously pompous blanket statements about groups of people, you'd better have a pretty good argument to back it up. Which you don't.

                Either way, I suggest that in future you abide by forum rules and refrain from making directly derogatory comments about specific groups of people.

                For the time being I shall leave this topic open. But given that you've started off by denigrating one of the several VALID opinions regarding the definition of paganism, you're going to have to be very careful how you continue with this discussion.

                Comment


                  Re: Defining "Pagan"

                  Originally posted by Briton View Post
                  By suggesting personal definitions are as valid as universally accepted ones, well... you may as well just go and speak a different language.
                  There is a major flaw in the logic here. If you apply this very statement to the topic of religion (as it should be, especially based on the topic of the overall discussion), you are stating that a personal definition of religion is less valid than a generally accepted one. Now, considering how MANY folks on these here forums practice, this could very well be directed toward their faiths. When it comes to exceptionally broad terms that can garner 13 definitions when you ask 10 people, such as we are discussing here, a personal concept of the word is as valid as any other. The point is that when you say "pagan", while you may have your own twists, turns, and cul-de-sacs in your ideas, at least the generalities of it can be expressed.

                  Comment


                    Re: Defining "Pagan"

                    In the end, it call comes down to 2 things...

                    1) Definitions change over time. Language evolves.
                    2) Not all words can be defined univocally/monothetically. Both the concepts of Paganism and religion are words that require polythetic criteria.
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      Re: Defining "Pagan"

                      I call myself a pagan,and really it does not matter how others define it,because when I define it to myself it seems ok. I could call myself something completely made up,and it would still have the meaning I give it for myself.
                      MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                      all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                      NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                      don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                      sigpic

                      my new page here,let me know what you think.


                      nothing but the shadow of what was

                      witchvox
                      http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                      Comment


                        Re: Defining "Pagan"

                        I call myself a "penguin" because I tend to mispell wordz.
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                        Comment


                          Re: Defining "Pagan"

                          My apologies for being blunt. I wrote without self censoring. I won't try to justify or explain my opinion as the damage has been done and I doubt it would improve the situation. I don't want to make enemies, I just don't find it as easy to be considerate online as in face to face. Apologies again.
                          I'm not one to ever pray for mercy
                          Or to wish on pennies in the fountain or the shrine
                          But that day you know I left my money
                          And I thought of you only
                          All that copper glowing fine

                          Comment


                            Re: Defining "Pagan"

                            Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                            I call myself a "penguin" because I tend to mispell wordz.
                            So,it is you Penguin,the batman's enemy....and I suppose the Joker is with you as well?
                            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                            sigpic

                            my new page here,let me know what you think.


                            nothing but the shadow of what was

                            witchvox
                            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                            Comment


                              Re: Defining "Pagan"

                              The old school Joker from the Adam West farces, not the morbid new school joker.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                              Comment


                                Re: Defining "Pagan"

                                Good to keep up to date...and If you happen to run across Bat girl just tell her that Alfred says hello.(oh,and Cat woman as well(wink!))
                                MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                                all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                                NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                                don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                                sigpic

                                my new page here,let me know what you think.


                                nothing but the shadow of what was

                                witchvox
                                http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X