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Thread: Defining "Pagan"

  1. #141
    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    Personally I take the technical definition.

    The technicalist would say a pagan is defined as anyone who doesn't follow an Abrahamic religion in Europe and the Near East. Yes its root basically means "rube" but, let's face it, it holds no currency with that definition. Virtually nobody uses that definition.

    If you want to wear the badge 'pagan', it cannot be the defining point of your beliefs, because 'pagan' was never used specifically. Anyone who didn't convert to Christianity was one and so if you want to use the term pagan from a spiritual perspective, it is, by default, defined by non-Christianity. You can use that to its advantage, if you want, but don't pretend it is anything else.

    Of course there will always be those who say it means whatever you want it to mean but frankly those people are sociopaths. The whole point of language is to communicate easily. By suggesting personal definitions are as valid as universally accepted ones, well... you may as well just go and speak a different language.

  2. #142
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    Quote Originally Posted by Briton View Post
    Of course there will always be those who say it means whatever you want it to mean but frankly those people are sociopaths.
    Briton, if you're going to make ridiculously pompous blanket statements about groups of people, you'd better have a pretty good argument to back it up. Which you don't.

    Either way, I suggest that in future you abide by forum rules and refrain from making directly derogatory comments about specific groups of people.

    For the time being I shall leave this topic open. But given that you've started off by denigrating one of the several VALID opinions regarding the definition of paganism, you're going to have to be very careful how you continue with this discussion.

  3. #143
    Bronze Member Munin-Hugin's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    Quote Originally Posted by Briton View Post
    By suggesting personal definitions are as valid as universally accepted ones, well... you may as well just go and speak a different language.
    There is a major flaw in the logic here. If you apply this very statement to the topic of religion (as it should be, especially based on the topic of the overall discussion), you are stating that a personal definition of religion is less valid than a generally accepted one. Now, considering how MANY folks on these here forums practice, this could very well be directed toward their faiths. When it comes to exceptionally broad terms that can garner 13 definitions when you ask 10 people, such as we are discussing here, a personal concept of the word is as valid as any other. The point is that when you say "pagan", while you may have your own twists, turns, and cul-de-sacs in your ideas, at least the generalities of it can be expressed.

  4. #144
    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    In the end, it call comes down to 2 things...

    1) Definitions change over time. Language evolves.
    2) Not all words can be defined univocally/monothetically. Both the concepts of Paganism and religion are words that require polythetic criteria.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
    ~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History

    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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  5. #145
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    I call myself a pagan,and really it does not matter how others define it,because when I define it to myself it seems ok. I could call myself something completely made up,and it would still have the meaning I give it for myself.
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

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  6. #146
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    I call myself a "penguin" because I tend to mispell wordz.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  7. #147
    Copper Member Briton's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    My apologies for being blunt. I wrote without self censoring. I won't try to justify or explain my opinion as the damage has been done and I doubt it would improve the situation. I don't want to make enemies, I just don't find it as easy to be considerate online as in face to face. Apologies again.

  8. #148
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    I call myself a "penguin" because I tend to mispell wordz.
    So,it is you Penguin,the batman's enemy....and I suppose the Joker is with you as well?
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

  9. #149
    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    The old school Joker from the Adam West farces, not the morbid new school joker.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

  10. #150
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Defining "Pagan"

    Good to keep up to date...and If you happen to run across Bat girl just tell her that Alfred says hello.(oh,and Cat woman as well(wink!))
    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




    http://www.paganforum.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=186&dateline=1330020104

    my new page here,let me know what you think.


    nothing but the shadow of what was

    witchvox
    http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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