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How do I tell the Difference?

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    #16
    Re: How do I tell the Difference?

    I really like the sword metaphor. its always easier to understand things with a good metaphor. i think why people converting from monotheistic faiths still think they need to do the whole good thing bad thing is because of the fear that is jammed down their throats. which is what i dislike so much. i don't believe in forcing people (manipulatively i may add) into following my beliefs/opinion about religion.
    at first it is very hard to break the "stigma"...

    Comment


      #17
      Re: How do I tell the Difference?

      One of the most useful adages I use on my own path is 'As above, so below.' It comes from something called the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus.

      I personally don't accept there is good and bad magic, only good and bad intentions. And this is much the same as in life. We may do an apparently good turn with a bad intention - in which case it's not really a good turn at all. And sometimes a bad turn may does us a favour in the long run, but the fact that it was originally done with a bad intention doesn't cancel out the ultimate effect.

      So - when you're deciding whether or not to do magic, my own advice is to cultivate common sense. Ask yourself whether this would be a good thing to do for (or to) another person, in everyday life. Just forget the magic, the candles, the incense and what have you. Concentrate on the task in hand. If it's intended as a good turn, and there is no underlying subtext, then fine, it can be classed as benign.

      Now of course, whether we should do magic without the express permission of the person we're trying to help is entirely a diferent matter (and one that has got me into a few arguments down the years ). Again, I would say you should use some common sense. Apply your everyday values and judgement.

      And never, ever, forget the laws of unintended consequences!
      www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


      Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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        #18
        Re: How do I tell the Difference?

        This is just me, so take it or leave it.

        I realized at some point that I had one thing about "god" that I knew to be absolute fact. A single spiritual certainty that was "beyond the shadow of a doubt" for me. For ME, that spiritual certainty is "God is love". Your spiritual certainty might be different, such as "God is Balance". Or "Humans are Gods". Perhaps it's that "There are many Gods"; I don't know. But I suspect that, underneath everything else, above and beyond all the trappings, there is SOMETHING that is an absolute spiritual certainty for you.

        This is your internal spiritual compass. It's the thing that you can trust above all else... it's your divine certainty.

        When someone tells me that something is true of "god" or the higher power or powers, it has to pass one test, and only one test. "Is it loving?"

        If someone says that god killed his own son because he hated (but wanted to love) everyone else... I ask myself, "Is that loving?" Now, personally, because I know that god is loving, I know It created me with the basic inherent intelligence to figure out if something is loving. PLUS, I know that It is BETTER than me. So if "lowly" me can figure out that this is absolutely not remotely loving... so can god.

        So to know what's "right and wrong", I suggest figuring out what your spiritual compass is. Whether it's "god is ultimately loving" or not doesn't matter. You have some inherent, deep-seated knowledge of the supreme being or beings. That absolute certainty is what has been given to you in this lifetime to help you sort your way through life. Trust that, whatever the ultimate being in the universe is (or how many), It or they have given you a certainty.

        It is the foundation for all of your knowledge and learning. I can reject anything I am taught about It that is not loving. Sometimes I'm not certain, sometimes people make it ambiguous or give arguments that can make me uncertain as to whether a specific thing is loving. So I ask and I focus and I think about it. I accept nothing that I can't immediately identify as loving.

        I may not know if an action is loving or not. But my certainty that GOD IS LOVE never, ever flags at all. It is the one thing I can count on. So if I can't figure out if it's loving or not (because tough love is sometimes an uncertain area), I don't accept it or reject it. I take it under advisement.

        But I don't ever have to wonder about the ultimate nature of the Great Intelligence. Ever.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: How do I tell the Difference?

          Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
          One of the most useful adages I use on my own path is 'As above, so below.' It comes from something called the Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus.

          I personally don't accept there is good and bad magic, only good and bad intentions. And this is much the same as in life. We may do an apparently good turn with a bad intention - in which case it's not really a good turn at all. And sometimes a bad turn may does us a favour in the long run, but the fact that it was originally done with a bad intention doesn't cancel out the ultimate effect.

          So - when you're deciding whether or not to do magic, my own advice is to cultivate common sense. Ask yourself whether this would be a good thing to do for (or to) another person, in everyday life. Just forget the magic, the candles, the incense and what have you. Concentrate on the task in hand. If it's intended as a good turn, and there is no underlying subtext, then fine, it can be classed as benign.

          Now of course, whether we should do magic without the express permission of the person we're trying to help is entirely a diferent matter (and one that has got me into a few arguments down the years ). Again, I would say you should use some common sense. Apply your everyday values and judgement.

          And never, ever, forget the laws of unintended consequences!
          This is also what I believe. What you put out is what you get back and I also tend to follow the three-fold law and harm no one. In my opinion, there is no bad magic or good per say but it is your intentions that dictate what happens. In the end as Tylluan said use common sense and listen to your heart it's usually pretty good at letting you know which way to go
          Last edited by chris1987; 03 May 2013, 07:07.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: How do I tell the Difference?

            Originally posted by chris1987 View Post
            This is also what I believe. What you put out is what you get back and I also tend to follow the three-fold law and harm no one. In my opinion, there is no bad magic or good per say but it is your intentions that dictate what happens. In the end as Tylluan said use common sense and listen to your heart it's usually pretty good at letting you know which way to go
            Thank you - with regard to the three fold law, I was brought up in a family of witches (and all they did was hex!) and their maxim was 'Wishes and curses are like old hens, they always come home to roost.'

            I have to hold my hand up and say that yes, I have been known to perform hexes, but this is very rare and usually when I am at my wits' end about bringing someone to some sort of justice. I've never been a great fan of 'harming none' not because I want to harm people, but because it is extremely difficult to put into practice. I think that's probably why I describe myself as a witch rather than a wiccan.
            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

            Comment


              #21
              Re: How do I tell the Difference?

              Even though I follow the harm none rule, I also take it with a grain of salt since I do think it's impossible to not harm anyone or anything ever. So I say to myself try not to harm any one intentionally. And I don't disagree with hexes at all when you are at your wits end and want to bring about some justice (I have been very tempted to at times and I won't say I will never hex anyone because eventually if I believe there is just cause for it I probably will)

              Comment


                #22
                Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                I don't generally hex. I don't have spectacular moral qualms with hexes under specific conditions (namely to smack down a determined agressor) but altering my defenses into their less polite aspect normally seems to be enough to handle that for me and I prefer to use modified defenses first.

                I do take issue with imprecise or casual hexing. If you're gonna throw hexes then you should have a d*** good idea of where they're going and good reason to inflict that harm. Smacking down an agressor is one thing. Just make sure to avoid smacking down the agressor's wife, two kids and dog when delivering the smack down. Sorcery provides precise options. Magical carpet bombing is bad form.
                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                  Magic carpet bombing indeed Mask...I think I might steal that line...
                  MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                  all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                  NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                  don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




                  sigpic

                  my new page here,let me know what you think.


                  nothing but the shadow of what was

                  witchvox
                  http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                    Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                    Thank you - with regard to the three fold law, I was brought up in a family of witches (and all they did was hex!) and their maxim was 'Wishes and curses are like old hens, they always come home to roost.'

                    I have to hold my hand up and say that yes, I have been known to perform hexes, but this is very rare and usually when I am at my wits' end about bringing someone to some sort of justice. I've never been a great fan of 'harming none' not because I want to harm people, but because it is extremely difficult to put into practice. I think that's probably why I describe myself as a witch rather than a wiccan.
                    i agree it is very difficult to never ever harm anything or anyone...if you take the example that was given to me for instance. lets say i want to do a spell to get a little bigger cash flow ..you don't know how you will end up getting that money...someone could die and i could inherit that money...or someone else could loose a hundred dollar bill and i could find it...but do i know if that was that persons last money to buy groceries for their family....this is honestly what confuses me the most!! with the best intention spell i can literally come up with something that could go wrong...

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                      Originally posted by Lilium of the Valley View Post
                      i agree it is very difficult to never ever harm anything or anyone...if you take the example that was given to me for instance. lets say i want to do a spell to get a little bigger cash flow ..you don't know how you will end up getting that money...someone could die and i could inherit that money...or someone else could loose a hundred dollar bill and i could find it...but do i know if that was that persons last money to buy groceries for their family....this is honestly what confuses me the most!! with the best intention spell i can literally come up with something that could go wrong...
                      this is where balance comes into it all, its about balancing these's energies, becauses "nothing comes from nothing", like we discussed on that other thread a healing spell technically cause;s me harm, because the "bad energy has to go somewhere" or "the good energy has to be paid for" the uuniverse is all about balance

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      i try to balance the energy to cause the least amount of harm

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                        im starting to get the drift...could certain wording help? for instance adding a line like "To do no harm, nor return to me" for example...*curious*

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                          cirtain wording can help to direct the magick, and stop "magic carpet bombing"(i love that phrase by the way) but ,and this is my view you may come to see it differently, nothing can be made from nothing, some form of payment must be made. weather by you or by someone else, wether that payment is physical, emotional or spiritual, but like i said that is my thought and feelings someone else will have different idea's and you should go with what feels right to you, i know when you start out its kinda of daunting, and you can feel the need to have some one there to tell you the rights and the wrongs, but the thing is, and i think this is something people will agree with me on, we can only choose our own actions and how we choose to use the gifts we possess. and only we can decide if what we choose to do is the right thing or the wrong thing.

                          having a simple set of rules to follow is easy we know the score, but making our own rules and sticking to them thats hard, because we can feel the temptation to change those rules to suite our situation, and that can be a scary concept, faith comes in in knowing your doing the right thing and sticking to what YOU know to be the right thing no matter what the eventuality.


                          Someone on here(if your reading this please speak up cos is was a good piece of advice) made the point, that one of the main things you need to consider while practising magic is that you should be able to accept responsibilty for the concequences of your actions, weather they be good or bad, if you can do that you can justify doing the magic.
                          Last edited by Kahlenda; 03 May 2013, 11:21.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                            Originally posted by Lilium of the Valley View Post
                            im starting to get the drift...could certain wording help? for instance adding a line like "To do no harm, nor return to me" for example...*curious*
                            I think wording helps a lot. I say something similar in all my spells just to be careful, so far I only do helpful, healing, fairy or earth magic type spells but I always make sure to say "May it harm none and no harm come to me" just to be on the safe side

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                              Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post

                              I do take issue with imprecise or casual hexing. If you're gonna throw hexes then you should have a d*** good idea of where they're going and good reason to inflict that harm. Smacking down an agressor is one thing. Just make sure to avoid smacking down the agressor's wife, two kids and dog when delivering the smack down. Sorcery provides precise options. Magical carpet bombing is bad form.
                              Absolutely. And it's surprising how much magical carpet bombing goes on (love the phrase BTW). It's a bit like a psychic scattergun - showers the spell everywhere.

                              Worst is when people tell me 'I did this spell once, can't remember what I did, or when or where but now I need to undo it...'
                              (And this isn't just with hexes but with other types of magic too.)

                              Give me strength.....
                              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: How do I tell the Difference?

                                I don't object to control clauses (ie may it harm none...) provided that they aren't used to avoid thinking about what you intend to do or as "get out of responsibility free"* cards. Forethought is basic due diligence and the universe doesn't do get out of responsibility free cards. There is no real replacement for taking a few minutes to look at

                                1) what you plan to do
                                2) how you plan to do it
                                3) what are some of the potential side effects of your intended actions

                                * This is an issue I have with some people who use mirror defenses. They think all end results are the responsibility of the agressor. That is BS. The end results may be justified but the agressor didn't choose for you to switch your defense from armor into automated turrets that shoot incoming hostiles. Your choice justified though it may be is still your choice and so is the responsibility for it.
                                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                                Comment

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