addictions

[PsykhikosAnarchosNautikos]

Re: addictions

I struggle with drinking still. When I'm on my own, it's pretty easy not to (usually), but as soon as I am around it, I just need to drink. You might say, "Just hang out with people that are sober," well, none of my friends are sober- literally. We all have our toxic indulgence. Telling somebody to just quite, not to be rude, is a bad idea. That causes one to suppress an urge and when most people, especially addicts suppress an urge, the addiction festers beneath the skin until they binge. Some can go cold turkey, but that is very rare, especially for the dependent ones.

What I would suggest is to just slow down little by little. Your friend may never quite drinking all together (they might not really want to quite, but just to tone it down) but by slowly edging off the harder alcohol, or higher content alcohol, and keeping close attention to how many drinks they have had in an hour. What I did when I was trying hard not to get too drunk (and learn my tolerance) is check the time whenever I had a shot or opened a beer. I took a mental not of how many I had in the span of the party/drinking session and how I felt during and after the party/drinking session and how I felt the next day. If I drank and felt fine, drunk but not belligerent, and woke up feeling fine, than that is my tolerance. If I felt like crap, then I obviously over did it.

I hope this helps.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: addictions

Thanks for the responses all. It is a hard situation. Personally I have been able to quit my own addictions pretty easily when I put my mind to it, but for this person who is very close to me, she struggles and has a family history and comes from a Finnish lineage, so I think the addiction has a physiological component for her and she's gone back and forth but still struggles. She's tried AA but besides the religious stuff to AA she has low tolerance for trite answers.

I can't help but wonder what the underlying or mitigating factor is for your friend? Addiction is bad enough but with alcohol it seems there is almost always an underlying reason they drink and what they drink to forget or cope with. Until that is faced and resolved stopping is like walking through a revolving doorway that simply keeps pulling them back in.

What makes it even worse is the reason may have long been forgotten as time passes by but the damage still continues from it. In many ways it's like a combination of soul fragment retrieval and shadow totem workings.

[gwynwas]

Re: addictions

mitigated by stress of first college then work and anger (mostly anger at ppl at college and now work), but after many years and more and more dependence, it doesn't take much to trigger the need to drink . . . too addicted to just quit, too "smart" to just "work the program".

But like you say, it's been so long, the original reasons don't matter much anymore. I keep trying to support. My own personal deities are source of strength for me.

[Aeran]

Re: addictions

Excuse me? I didn't see you post a better option. It's alright to disagree with what's been said but it's an entirely different thing to insult everyone that has posted here so far. I suggest you stop this particular attitude, very quickly.

Wait, I'm the one who's insulting people? What about those belittling the serious issues of someone who came here asking for help and advice? If someone made a post asking for help with suicidal depression or an abusive partner, or anorexia, would you be fine with people saying 'yeah it's easy, just don't kill yourself and be happy instead,' 'it's ok, all you have to do is stop letting them abuse you' or 'lol just eat more and you won't be anorexic.' That's orders of magnitude more insulting than anything I said.

As for posting better options, firstly, posting nothing is a better option than insulting and belittling someone. Secondly, while I could offer all sorts of advice about dealing with an addiction in general, I held off since the request was specifically for advice as it relates to pagan spirituality, which I didn't feel qualified to offer as I only returned to my spiritual practice after I recovered from my own addiction.

But I will chime in with two points which occurred to me. Firstly, hold onto your spirituality, even if you're in a shitty place, or it feels like your practices have lost meaning or purpose in the face of the more dominating facets of your life. They help to provide meaning and purpose to the world around us, and for me, were essential to the way I restructured my life after I got sober. Secondly, have you considered working with a deity or archetype associated with substance use/addiction/altered states? Some kind of Dionysian invocation, or something along those lines, might help you gain a greater insight into your relationship with alcohol and how you can learn to better manage it.

[anunitu]

Re: addictions

I will not say quitting was easy,there was a demon of my own making I had to defeat. Meeting my ex wife gave me reason to defeat that demon. At one point I did not think I would see 30,and cared little if that happened. My life was saved by meeting my EX,She is the only reason that I survived past 30. Sometimes it is another person that helps you see clearly the path to safety.

[volcaniclastic]

Re: addictions

Wait, I'm the one who's insulting people? What about those belittling the serious issues of someone who came here asking for help and advice? If someone made a post asking for help with suicidal depression or an abusive partner, or anorexia, would you be fine with people saying 'yeah it's easy, just don't kill yourself and be happy instead,' 'it's ok, all you have to do is stop letting them abuse you' or 'lol just eat more and you won't be anorexic.' That's orders of magnitude more insulting than anything I said.

Ignoring your attitude since it's already been dealt with by another member of the staff, I just wanted to add some clarification about my original answer to the OP.

I come from a family of addicts. A rather long line, actually. And I have addictive tendencies myself. And I hate it. I loathe it.

Currently, I'm abstaining from alcohol because I was using it in prior months as a stress-reliever, to calm me down and numb my emotions, and I was doing it on a daily basis. I am not a drinker, to drink even one drink per day is highly abnormal for me, and I start to fall into an addictive cycle, where I need to have alcohol every day.

So I stopped. Cold turkey. And it's the same for everything else, too. Addicted to the internet? I quit. Addicted to Facebook? I got rid of it over a year ago and haven't ever gone back. For a brief period of time in my teens I was addicted to pot. I HAD to have it. I haven't had any in several years.

It's called will power. And I know that I am by no means an alcoholic, or a druggie, or truly addicted to anything, because before that happens, I make myself stop. And it sucks. I go through withdrawal and get grumpy, and all the stuff that a true proper addict goes through (to some degree).

So maybe my response sounded flippant, but it's honest-to-god how I would deal with it.

[wisp]

Re: addictions

There are always rituals you can do, stones you can ask your friend to carry, etc..but those won't work if she doesn't want to quit, as was stated before. A redirection of energy..not replacing one substance with another but a..distraction made up of varying activities might be an option. Like..one time when she feels like drinking, go for a run. The next time, try calling someone. Doing things that are healthy, social and distracting can help trigger some positive urges where negative ones existed. But, the core is her wanting to change, and honestly, addiction is a tough nut and often requires professional help (AA isn't the only way to get help, maybe try exploring other options in that strain?)

[Maria de Luna]

Re: addictions

Wait, I'm the one who's insulting people? What about those belittling the serious issues of someone who came here asking for help and advice? If someone made a post asking for help with suicidal depression or an abusive partner, or anorexia, would you be fine with people saying 'yeah it's easy, just don't kill yourself and be happy instead,' 'it's ok, all you have to do is stop letting them abuse you' or 'lol just eat more and you won't be anorexic.' That's orders of magnitude more insulting than anything I said.

Obviously no one here is a liscensed therapist, or social worker, and anyone who was would say, seek help... Because thats the best anyone can do. It is not an insult to give someone advice that may have worked for them. Just keep in mind that people may actually have a little bit of experience, maybe not a whole ton, but a suggestion that can work is better than ignoring it in favor of bashing the suggestion.

Quitting is not easy a all, when I had an issue, it was related to pressure from those around me and an addictive personality, I tend to grasp something hard and not let go. I made the decision to try and replace a glass of liquor or beer with water, and while it wasn't perfect and did not always prevent me from making a decision to drink, it helped to buffer me against drinking too much. It gave me the ability to quit slowly, but it helped to give me the ability to quit. It watered down what I had and helped me to develop the willpower to eventually over come it. I still drink sometimes, but I never drink to the extent I used to and I always intersperse some water to help fill me up and dilute the alcohol, I have not passed out, blacked out, had a hangover, or made an ass out of myself in years, and I like it that way. So its worth trying, though I imagine mindset and the sheer will to really want to do it are important as well. If you don't really want to quit, your friend probably will not.

[nbdy]

Re: addictions

One thing I know, sweet things help reduce the physical craving. The psychological addiction is a different beast, but having a variety of candies to pop instead of pouring a glass is sort of like a nicotine patch for a smoker who is quitting. There are natural alternatives to the commercial corn-syrup stuff -- honey candies, natural fruit gummis, etc. Or naturally sweet juices -- mixing grape juice with a little seltzer water is close to a spritzer. The psychological addiction is not the same for every person, some seek a depressant in alcohol and some seek a stimulant, figuring out which is the first step in arranging a lifestyle that can fill the need without alcohol. You are a good friend to help; many people just look away or walk away. Always keep in mind, though, that ultimately it has to be something that she is doing. Support her, love her, pray for her, but you cannot do it for her.

[thalassa]

Re: addictions

That suggests that you weren't actually addicted then

Not really... My father was an alcoholic--12 pack a night, sometimes more, emotionally and occasionally abusive alcoholic. He drank for over 40 years, since he was a teen.

And one day he "saw the light" so to speak...and quit.

Cold turkey.

Not everyone has the ability to do it, but it doesn't mean they aren't addicted just because they can quit cold turkey.

[Dez]

Re: addictions

I don't have much experience with alcoholism, but when it comes to other addictive behaviors....

Yeah, ultimately it's up to the person in question. OP can't force their friend. But they can be there for her. That's a rough line to walk: how to be there for your friend without enabling what they continue to do to hurt themselves. I don't like the AA style, either, but I think that seeing if she'd be willing to get a good medical doctor on board, one that she feels she can trust(and be honest with), might be a good start. A long-term, ongoing addictive behavior tends to have a lot of shame mixed in. It makes it difficult because it muddies the water and can lead to a lot of illogical choices even when not participating in the behavior.

OP, if you don't mind me asking, are you asking for pagan help on her behalf, or as backup support she's not aware of? Because it seems to me that there should be a lot that could be done in terms of candle magic, etc, that would be meant to send support and love her way, to help her feel strong enough to get out of the pattern she's trapped in. To e courage her to make that choice.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: addictions

I've always been very interested in how some people can quit things cold turkey and some can't. My father used to smoke cigarettes, and one day when I was 5 or 6, he simply quit. Never lit up again. Back in the 80's I was married to a major partier and I could indulge on the occasional weekend and then get back to reality when it was time to - he could not. I wonder if it's a genetic/brain chemistry factor of some kind....it'd be great to be able to bottle it.