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    Omnipotence?

    This might be a bit long, and I hope to not offend anyone with this but this is my personel opinion. I actually never considered any of the gods and goddessess to be omnipotent. I personally aknowledge all gods and goddessess and respect the good and wise ones but I believe that even the ones that are supposed to be classified as omnipotent aren't really, like the Hebrew God, or Jesus or Bramahn. They're powerful, but I don't think they are all powerful. Mostly because I think an all powerful being wouldn't require worshippers or offerings. A powerful being would but an all powerful being wouldn't do such things since they could create anything with a mere thought. Why would they invest so much time into that? Why would a god require armies to smite opposing people when the god can wipe them out instantly? Why would an all powerful being require such things and for what purpose? Compare and ant to a human. In comparison the human seems all powerful compared to the ant but is the human really omnipotent? No. I don't even think any of the gods and goddesses are responsible for creating the universe or even this planet. I think of them as powerful emmisaries sent to help guide the ignorant and help the unfortunate but that's just me.

    #2
    Re: Omnipotence?

    I think the idea of omnipotence comes from, at least now, so many millions even billions of people sharing the same general belief in a specific deity and they each claim they are in connection with this being from the minor to the miraculous, that it makes the deity seem omnipotent when it is just a widespread human belief and nothing more.

    I was thinking similarly that the gods are like messengers but not under the rule of any one higher being. They're kind of like a big brother or great aunt teaching you some interesting things about the seen and unseen worlds just because they want to and they're good at it. Being in connection with a deity serves no higher purpose than friendship or kinship of some kind in my experience. They're not here to transform our lives but help us define and interpret them and I think this has a lot to do with the omnipotence factor as well. So many different people in so many different places with so many different views, perceptions and practices all trying to get in contact, serve, communicate, work with, etc, the same higher power. For instance I have noticed Hecate, Freyja and Bridgid are fairly common Goddesses on this site and this site is open to the world, so that makes it seem like these goddesses are everywhere. Once again, I think it is just a mass collection of similar ideas and feelings- the collective unconscious I guess.

    I agree with your all powerful idea- why would an all powerful being need anything but themselves when they can create, live and destroy a universe with a blink of an eye, or a thought like you mentioned.

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      #3
      Re: Omnipotence?

      It really depends on your religion and what you believe in. So each answer will be different, depending and who you are asking.

      You also have to ask yourself, do you worship or pray to a god because they need it, or because you need it? Do we go out to get some sunlight because our bodies need it or because the sun needs it?
      [4:82]

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        #4
        Re: Omnipotence?

        I agree with some of what you said OP. But for me I do think many of the deities have access to information that ordinary people do not have. I also find it interesting that some people who have experienced Near death experiences have mentioned about hearing peoples thoughts. To me I think many of these Gods and Goddesses in various realms are able to hear what is going on and possibly see what is going on. I think its possible that other beings could do this too.

        An example could be the great and powerful Elephant headed Deity Ganesha. It is said that He is Lord of Dharma (Eternal Truths). He is the Protector of Dharma. The Remover of Obstacles. One thing I find very interesting about this friendly Deity is that it is said of Ganesha that He knows the inner most workings of Karma. Some people have experienced where a neighbor broke off a branch from a tree while trimming and Ganesha gave wisdom to a sage telling him that this breaking of the branch caused ripples across the Universe. So if Ganesha is aware of such things then there must be some kind of Omnipotence. But this is only my view. I also know of an incident where a Buddhist Monk (the famous Ajahn Chah) was meditating and suddenly in his meditation he started having visions of the Universe. His mind was traveling through out space seeing all sorts of celestial bodies etc... and workings of space. He was wise so he knew not to get lost with these visions so he simply was mindful of the miraculous visions and simply watched it without being attached (something I would for sure fail to do). My point is that these are ordinary humans that sometimes have these visions so what about the great Gods and Goddesses in our mystic traditions? Surely they must be able to have a wide field of knowledge and direct perception.


        I do view that these is one underlying source of all things. I may call it Shiva/Shakti and other people call it other things. This microcosmic God/Goddess is what gives birth not only to Gods and Goddesses, but to everything else such as asteroids, comets, planets, humans and other animals.

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          #5
          Re: Omnipotence?

          I think dumuzi hit it on the head, do we worship deities because they want us to or because we want them to. i ill admit the Bible (not sure on the qua'ran?) basically tells you to worship god. so from your side of the argument thats true for yeh weh, but remember that bible was written by men, and men can make mistakes, or unable to understand a concept put it into a form they can understand and this then over the years changes. (think chinese whispers, but with books) i cirtainly know that i am not bound to worship any deity and yetthere are some that i do feel have omnipetence, this because (as had been mentioned above) we give this being that power.

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            #6
            Re: Omnipotence?

            Originally posted by Alienist View Post
            This might be a bit long, and I hope to not offend anyone with this but this is my personel opinion. I actually never considered any of the gods and goddessess to be omnipotent. I personally aknowledge all gods and goddessess and respect the good and wise ones but I believe that even the ones that are supposed to be classified as omnipotent aren't really, like the Hebrew God, or Jesus or Bramahn. They're powerful, but I don't think they are all powerful. Mostly because I think an all powerful being wouldn't require worshippers or offerings. A powerful being would but an all powerful being wouldn't do such things since they could create anything with a mere thought. Why would they invest so much time into that? Why would a god require armies to smite opposing people when the god can wipe them out instantly? Why would an all powerful being require such things and for what purpose? Compare and ant to a human. In comparison the human seems all powerful compared to the ant but is the human really omnipotent? No. I don't even think any of the gods and goddesses are responsible for creating the universe or even this planet. I think of them as powerful emmisaries sent to help guide the ignorant and help the unfortunate but that's just me.
            I pretty much agree with this line of thinking. I think of deities as higher tiers of beings (and have used the ant-to-person metaphor myself before too) and while I hold respect toward them, I do not consider them all-powerful. Just lots bigger than humans (some bigger than others).

            I do believe in a kind of "source" that pervades all things, from which all of existence emanates. I suppose in a way it could be said to be all-powerful, perhaps. But I've never seen it as any kind of personified thing or deity. I think monotheists and those referring to a god-of-the-gods, ultimate, all-powerful being are feebly trying to grasp at the concept none of us humans can ever fully put into words. My best attempt to describe it is as raw power that exists far beyond our ability to fully conceptualize it, does not adhere to any human concept (we can begin to describe the very hem of its coat so to speak, but never fully grasp the thing itself), and doesn't give a darn about what we do or don't do with our lives. I wouldn't really call that thing "God", exactly. I've referred to it as "Source" before, though.
            Last edited by RainbowDemonic; 08 Jun 2013, 14:50. Reason: Superfluous self-editing.

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              #7
              Re: Omnipotence?

              Alienist and Psy.. Really long name, I agree with both viewpoints there, summarized pretty well.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Omnipotence?

                Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                I pretty much agree with this line of thinking. I think of deities as higher tiers of beings (and have used the ant-to-person metaphor myself before too) and while I hold respect toward them, I do not consider them all-powerful. Just lots bigger than humans (some bigger than others).

                I do believe in a kind of "source" that pervades all things, from which all of existence emanates. I suppose in a way it could be said to be all-powerful, perhaps. But I've never seen it as any kind of personified thing or deity. I think monotheists and those referring to a god-of-the-gods, ultimate, all-powerful being are feebly trying to grasp at the concept none of us humans can ever fully put into words. My best attempt to describe it is as raw power that exists far beyond our ability to fully conceptualize it, does not adhere to any human concept (we can begin to describe the very hem of its coat so to speak, but never fully grasp the thing itself), and doesn't give a darn about what we do or don't do with our lives. I wouldn't really call that thing "God", exactly. I've referred to it as "Source" before, though.
                Well said. Truly the 'Divine', 'God', 'Goddess', 'Tao', etc is beyond all concepts. Calling it the Source is another great pointer. Our monotheism, polytheism, and panentheism I think are different teachings to try to grasp that which is beyond name and form. I call that source Shiva/Shakti or Woden.

                Ong Thung Thunoraya nama

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                  #9
                  Re: Omnipotence?

                  I like to call that creative force/thing/essence existence and abstraction, or empty beauty I guess (we are allowed to give it meaning where it has none or is beyond our comprehension).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Omnipotence?

                    Omni-impotence. Because even the gods suffer from erectile dysfunction.


















                    Yes. I'm a bad human being. Yes. I'm off-topic. Yes, I'm trolling. So there's that.
                    Last edited by volcaniclastic; 08 Jun 2013, 19:40. Reason: because, reasons


                    Mostly art.

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                      #11
                      Re: Omnipotence?

                      Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                      Mostly because I think an all powerful being wouldn't require worshippers or offerings. A powerful being would but an all powerful being wouldn't do such things since they could create anything with a mere thought. Why would they invest so much time into that? Why would a god require armies to smite opposing people when the god can wipe them out instantly? Why would an all powerful being require such things and for what purpose? Compare and ant to a human. In comparison the human seems all powerful compared to the ant but is the human really omnipotent? No. I don't even think any of the gods and goddesses are responsible for creating the universe or even this planet. I think of them as powerful emmisaries sent to help guide the ignorant and help the unfortunate but that's just me.
                      I agree with the others in that I do not believe that deities are "omnipotent" at all.

                      However, I do believe that deities are different to us in many ways and possess capabilities that we do not. We have established that prayer, etc. is more attributable to human need than divine need, but I do believe that (at least some) deities/entities benefit from the exchange of energy between humans and themselves - i.e., prayer, ritual, etc. "How" they many benefit is not as clear to me - but to question what motivates the actions of a non-human entity that is not of our world, not of our customs, not of our limited human perspective is pointless, IMHO. I cannot rationalize the actions or even supposed "feelings" or "desires" of a spiritual entity based upon what a "human being" would or would not do.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Omnipotence?

                        Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                        I pretty much agree with this line of thinking. I think of deities as higher tiers of beings (and have used the ant-to-person metaphor myself before too) and while I hold respect toward them, I do not consider them all-powerful. Just lots bigger than humans (some bigger than others).

                        I do believe in a kind of "source" that pervades all things, from which all of existence emanates. I suppose in a way it could be said to be all-powerful, perhaps. But I've never seen it as any kind of personified thing or deity. I think monotheists and those referring to a god-of-the-gods, ultimate, all-powerful being are feebly trying to grasp at the concept none of us humans can ever fully put into words. My best attempt to describe it is as raw power that exists far beyond our ability to fully conceptualize it, does not adhere to any human concept (we can begin to describe the very hem of its coat so to speak, but never fully grasp the thing itself), and doesn't give a darn about what we do or don't do with our lives. I wouldn't really call that thing "God", exactly. I've referred to it as "Source" before, though.
                        This.

                        I'm a hardcore polytheist, and I don't believe that any of the deities are omnipotent, or for that matter, omniscient. Most of those who are associated with omnipotence preside over monotheistic religions, and I wonder if that's a reflection of the human believers rather than the deity themselves. I think that polytheism precludes omnipotence to a certain extent. In believing in multiple deities who all have different spheres of power, we're accepting that they don't all have power over everything. Yet if we were to believe in only a single deity, and deny the existence of others, then that single deity must become all knowing and all powerful in order to fulfill our expectations. I think some deities have played to this... I think that YHVH has probably been quite happy with his 'omniscient' and 'omnipotent' labels and does whatever he can to encourage them, but that doesn't mean that he actually is those things.

                        On the flip side of that I am somewhat of a panentheist and I do believe in the 'Source' that RainbowDemonic mentioned, and would attempt to describe it in much the same way. But even that isn't really omnipotent.

                        I also agree with Torey in that we can't hold deities (or any other species of corporeal or non-corporeal being) to human standards, which makes it difficult to define them within human terms such as 'omnipotent' or 'omniscient'. Our own little world is not the center of existence, and the deities are not limited to it's confines. Who's to say what the limits of their power are within their own realms in the Otherworlds. As expansive an understanding as any of us have, can we truly understand the nature of something that doesn't primarily live within our own realm? For that matter, can we truly understand the nature of anything that isn't human? Do any of us intimately understand the nature and workings of an ant, let alone a deity? We try, but I wonder how much our own nature limits our understanding.

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                          #13
                          Re: Omnipotence?

                          Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                          Compare and ant to a human. In comparison the human seems all powerful compared to the ant but is the human really omnipotent? No.
                          Heh, good point!

                          Well, I do not believe that the deities I connect to are almighty. I don't believe that they, by themselves, created this planet and certainly not the Universe. I can worship them and ask them for help, guidance, etc., but that's because I approach them.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Omnipotence?

                            I agree with a lot of view points here. I always thought there was some sort of source or force that creates life in this universe and that the gods and goddesses have a great understanding of this source. This void of creation that conitually expands the universe we live in I have thought for a long time that none of the gods and goddesses are omnipotent omniscient or even omnipresent. But they definitely know things we don't know, wield great power and connect to us spirtually from other realms. There are gods like The Hebrew God or Jesus or people like the Buddha have great wisdom and all of us no matter what religion we are, can learn something from them. Deities like Ganesha or Inanna or any gods and goddesses or enlighted ones can help all of spritually and help guide us.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Omnipotence?

                              Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                              This might be a bit long, and I hope to not offend anyone with this but this is my personel opinion. I actually never considered any of the gods and goddessess to be omnipotent. I personally aknowledge all gods and goddessess and respect the good and wise ones but I believe that even the ones that are supposed to be classified as omnipotent aren't really, like the Hebrew God, or Jesus or Bramahn. They're powerful, but I don't think they are all powerful. Mostly because I think an all powerful being wouldn't require worshippers or offerings. A powerful being would but an all powerful being wouldn't do such things since they could create anything with a mere thought. Why would they invest so much time into that? Why would a god require armies to smite opposing people when the god can wipe them out instantly? Why would an all powerful being require such things and for what purpose? Compare and ant to a human. In comparison the human seems all powerful compared to the ant but is the human really omnipotent? No. I don't even think any of the gods and goddesses are responsible for creating the universe or even this planet. I think of them as powerful emmisaries sent to help guide the ignorant and help the unfortunate but that's just me.

                              According to my beliefs there is an unnamed Allfather. Odin is given this title in Norse Germanic Paganism but in Frankish Germanic Paganism the Allfather seems to be unnamed. He is omnipotent but is not given sacrifice or any such thing. This deity is prayed to and nothing more in my particular belief system. I am not even certain that he ever intervenes. Odin is king of the gods, even father of the gods, but even Odin had a beginning. There is a source to all things, even the Allfather, and what that source is could be anyone's guess. I feel that the Greeks had it right in that all things came from a primordial and unconscious energy. Some parts of this energy formed into conscious entities and so came the gods. Perhaps the Allfather is the first conscious manifestation of this energy. From him perhaps came the other gods. This idea would fit almost every religious system that is open minded enough to question the traditional accounts. Some people may not be willing to acknowledge that all of the gods were created by an unnamed being. I for one have no problem with this. But a conscious entity that has always existed? No every consciousness has beginning. An infinite memory going back into time is too much to ask of someone to believe in with sheer faith. That is one of the problems I personally had with Christianity. Why limit the mind of your creation to where he cannot understand the creator's origins? Most religions at the very least have a vague account as to the beginning of the deities in the pantheon.

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