A Witch's 10 Commandments

[Lunacie]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=LiadanWillows link=topic=728.msg19914#msg19914 date=1291516692]
I am not "apologetic" either. I feel no guilt for being a non-Christian. And I really do not get how this "apology" thing even relates to what was said....

All I am saying is from an author who wants to sell books and still get her message out as well as her use of the phrase "10 commandments" and the wording and order of them was rather clever. Nothing is set in stone, there are no "rules" for being a Pagan but for someone learning this is an interesting guide that draws you in with a concept you already understand.
[/quote]

In the post you quoted, thalassa said "from a Pagan apologetics perspective in a Christian world..."

I am not a Pagan apologetic and I don't think this is a Christian world. This is a somewhat outdated illustration of the division of religions in the world but while Christians comprise the largest group, they are not a majority by any means.

Pie Chart of Major Religions: http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

(I cannot figure out how to post images on this forum. bah.)

[LiadanWillows]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

you post images by typing [ i m g ] (url of the image) [ / i m g ] without the spaces
also if you click reply instead of quick reply, above the text box you will see pictures of youtube, mona lisa, hyperlink. if you click those it will insert the code for you and all you have to do is add the url.

I agree with you there. this is not a Christian world. I guess I just appreciated the similarities because I was a Christian at the time I bought the book who was not satisfied with Christianity.

[Lunacie]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

Hmm, well that's what I did and I didn't get an image.

And, again, those who are enjoying this mental exercise shouldn't be worried because I find it pointless. When I left the Church over 20 years ago and found the Wiccan path, I did my share of comparisons, and I realized that Pagan religions and Christianity have very little in common. It sounds like the author may be trying to make us look like 'Christians with a twist' so our families will accept us. We don't need to "Christianize" Wicca and other Pagan religions to make them more acceptable.

[Agamemnon]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

^ this

[thalassa]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

BTW...the title is [glow=red,2,300]A[/glow] Witch's 10 Commandments...

Not "10 Commandments for Witches" or "The 10 Wiccan Commandments" or "Witchcraft's 10 Commandments"

I sort of find the *ZOMG! she used the word commanment* to be a bit irrelevent in this context. Okay. So you don't like rules. Or you don't find *these* guidelines relevant to your practice. Or you do not find historically relevant pagan proverbial wisdom as compared to Christian doctrine to be useful. (waits for someone to complain because I used the word proverb) Not only did the author not say that these were rules for everyone, she even distinctly said they were not that. And for some people--they do live in a Christian world (since it seems we have further descended to the semantics argument, I am using definitions 7 and 10.), and would likely find the comparison not only useful for themselves, but helpful having a way to be able to easily relate the differences for concerned relatives and friends.

Also...while we are on the semantics issue, for anyone that might not know, apologetics isn't about apologizing.

[Caelia]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=LiadanWillows link=topic=728.msg19914#msg19914 date=1291516692]
I am not "apologetic" either. I feel no guilt for being a non-Christian. And I really do not get how this "apology" thing even relates to what was said....
[/quote]
That's not the type of apologetic she meant. She means she doesn't argue Pagan philosophy. ADD: looks like Thal beat me to it. Thanks, Thal, for the link.

All I am saying is from an author who wants to sell books and still get her message out as well as her use of the phrase "10 commandments" and the wording and order of them was rather clever. Nothing is set in stone, there are no "rules" for being a Pagan but for someone learning this is an interesting guide that draws you in with a concept you already understand.

I'm glad you feel that way. I hope you can explore it further and discuss in deeper detail how these apply to your spiritual path.

[KashakuTatsu]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

(tired long-winded slight rant)
"of course that would be impossible. What it's actually saying is that if you've considered a certain action and have decided that it's >>>>not likely to hurt anybody<<<<, then no further moral hand-wringing is necessary."

That was what I was referring to. Every action is likely to hurt someone somewhere. Perhaps it's my slight tilted morality, but I've seen this more than once. In an old organization I used to belong to we had a discussion on the idea of harm and how far it can encompass. It's been approached and makes sense that harm would include feelings; being upset by someone, getting offended, etc. Taking that into consideration, I've walked down the street and offended at least 10 people by what I look like or my reading material. Seemingly I'm not doing any active harm to someone, but my choice in clothing that I look good in seems to offend a lot of conservatives. So am I still not harming people even looking at the level of offended hurt feelings?

Some kid shows interest in something dangerously stupid and asks the right way to go about it. Most would just go "don't do it". I've been young, I know "don't do it" will result in "hey I'm going to do it anyways" so I list reasons why said kid shouldn't ___, followed by "if you're going to do it.... (insert info that can save kid's life)." Pretty much get jumped by all who got offended (insert hurt) by my choice to inform the kid who may not listen to a host of "no's". (have been ganged on in chats many times before because of this but still feel it's necessary to give that sort of info so not really inclined to cease it... person listens or not it's not my fault if they go to a party, ignore the 'don't get drunk' clause and end up raped cause I said "here's a list of how to avoid getting raped at parties&quot

On the grand scheme of harm, I'd have to say from personal experience emotional harm cuts deeper than physical. Offense may be the lesser of the emotional hurts, but they are still a hurt. And sometimes I feel offended by something that I leave that cause it makes me feel bad. That action hurt.

All of those scenarios happen time and time again, the first is at least weekly. Am I out to harm people? No just living my life and some act like my very existence harms them. In that case by the act of breathing I'm bringing harm to them.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=728.msg19936#msg19936 date=1291524532]
BTW...the title is [glow=red,2,300]A[/glow] Witch's 10 Commandments...

Not "10 Commandments for Witches" or "The 10 Wiccan Commandments" or "Witchcraft's 10 Commandments"

I sort of find the *ZOMG! she used the word commanment* to be a bit irrelevent in this context. Okay. So you don't like rules.[/quote]

Very true. *Suitably chastened* Mea culpa.

I'm just getting stroppy in my old age. Any excuse to throw oranges....

[LiadanWillows]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=728.msg19936#msg19936 date=1291524532]
BTW...the title is [glow=red,2,300]A[/glow] Witch's 10 Commandments...

Not "10 Commandments for Witches" or "The 10 Wiccan Commandments" or "Witchcraft's 10 Commandments"

I sort of find the *ZOMG! she used the word commanment* to be a bit irrelevent in this context. Okay. So you don't like rules. Or you don't find *these* guidelines relevant to your practice. Or you do not find historically relevant pagan proverbial wisdom as compared to Christian doctrine to be useful. (waits for someone to complain because I used the word proverb) Not only did the author not say that these were rules for everyone, she even distinctly said they were not that. And for some people--they do live in a Christian world (since it seems we have further descended to the semantics argument, I am using definitions 7 and 10.), and would likely find the comparison not only useful for themselves, but helpful having a way to be able to easily relate the differences for concerned relatives and friends.

Also...while we are on the semantics issue, for anyone that might not know, apologetics isn't about apologizing.
[/quote]

Thanks for the link thal. I did not know that :-[

[thalassa]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=Tylluan Penry link=topic=728.msg19948#msg19948 date=1291535070]
Very true. *Suitably chastened* Mea culpa.

I'm just getting stroppy in my old age. Any excuse to throw oranges....
[/quote]

Lol, I just found it funny that everyone was harping on about it!!

I think there is something to be said for being conditioned to ignore the little words...that tend to put things into context!! ;D

[Lunacie]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

Oh dear, I meant to say that I don't feel any need to apologize for not following the Christian religion - or to defend the religion I do follow. My mind went faster than my fingers on the keyboard and I didn't finish the thought properly.

And my point was not to nit-pik about the word "commandments" so much as to say that I (personally) don't see any point in comparing the rules of one religion against the principles of another. Twenty-some years ago Pagans were still trying to "make nice", and "not rock the boat", and assure the Christians that we're not really that different from them. But I don't see it being so necessary a decade into the 21st century. I had thought we were past that sort of thing so I'm very disappointed to see an author trying to Christianize our Pagan spirituality.

I have not read the book myself, can't say I'm interested in doing so, and I may be off-base on what the author is actually doing. However, anyone who claims to be an "expert on Wicca" but admits she is self-taught is automatically suspect in my book. People can certainly become followers of the Wiccan religion without traditional training, but it's the only way to become an "expert."

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=Lunacie link=topic=728.msg19992#msg19992 date=1291557939]
However, anyone who claims to be an "expert on Wicca" but admits she is self-taught is automatically suspect in my book. People can certainly become followers of the Wiccan religion without traditional training, but it's the only way to become an "expert."
[/quote]

Provided of course, that the person doing the traditional training hasn't managed to slip in a few ideas of their own along the way. It shouldn't happen - but of course it does.

[Lunacie]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

Adding a few things to Wicca isn't a problem in my perspective, IF they're not contradictory.

Not getting the basics is a big problem, at least if you're going to call yourself an "expert."

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=Lunacie link=topic=728.msg20002#msg20002 date=1291560645]
Adding a few things to Wicca isn't a problem in my perspective, IF they're not contradictory.

Not getting the basics is a big problem, at least if you're going to call yourself an "expert."
[/quote]

But if you add a few things, - whether or not they're contradictory - it's no longer the traditional training, surely?

And yes, not getting the basics IS a big problem, in so many walks of life!

[cesara]

Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

[quote author=Lunacie link=topic=728.msg19992#msg19992 date=1291557939]
Oh dear, I meant to say that I don't feel any need to apologize for not following the Christian religion - or to defend the religion I do follow. [/quote]

Personally, I find [insert religion/spiritual path here] apologetics both enlightening and necessarily educational.

I don't think it's fair that some people flail their arms around screaming 'You don't know about my religion at all!' without offering some form of apologetics to aid that person in their understanding....

Lunacie, you are offering some great information here -- you are indeed, practicing apologetics.