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    #1

    Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

    For me this is starting to look a lot like a freaking political end pass. I think the whole thing is a game by the Chinese and Russians to discredit the U.S. because for quite a while we have been saying the Chinese have been hacking us. Now with the leaks,the U.S. public trusts the Gov even less. And now the Chinese can point at us and say we hacked them. Kinda a public relations coup about all the hacking everyone does to each other. I am wondering what the true end game is.

    Page Not Found: 404 Not Found - CBS News
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57590610/hong-kong-edward-snowden-has-left-for-third-country/



    You may discuss,and give opinions as to what is really going on.
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    #2
    Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

    AFAIC Snowden is a traitor, and likely a spy. TBH, if you didn't know that the government in the US was checking out phone records, you haven't been paying attention to the news ever, but particularly in the past 12 years. If you didn't think that the government (and this is any government, not just ours...and if you really believe that there aren't people in your government doing this, then I have a bridge to sell you) doesn't check out-of-country emails for key words, and email addresses connected to criminals or terrorists, then you are hopelessly naive. And I say this as a person that categorically rejects conspiracy theories. Snowden did this for money, period...because if he actually believed any of the BS some liberals (and I'm pretty damn liberal on most issues) have been eating up with a spoon, he would have stayed in the US and taken it like a fucking upright citizen. Either that, or he would have gone to a country other than China an Russia (like Croatia or Bhutan).

    Oh, and I don't think Bradley Manning is a hero either.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #3
      Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

      To Thalassa,

      Did you come to those conclusions by chance through Fox news corp?

      I am just curious.

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        #4
        Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

        Originally posted by Archimedes View Post
        To Thalassa,

        Did you come to those conclusions by chance through Fox news corp?

        I am just curious.
        You haven't been around here very long, I can tell. So I'll be nice. I only watch Faux News to see what the Connies have to say. Although, everyone in a while, even they get lucky.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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          #5
          Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

          The government already knows what I think. Duh.

          *waves
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            #6
            Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

            I'm on the other side of the fence. But then I'm in the UK. We need whistleblowers in all walks of life. Because it seems to me that some people in government, both here and elsewhere, seem to think they can get away with anything. And they shouldn't think that because actually, they're suppose to work for us - the people.

            Recently, I think it was our foreign secretary, that snake-in-the-excrement William Hague who stated that the innocent have nothing to fear from surveillance. Bollocks. Quis custodiet ipsos custodiens? (Who watches the watchers themselves?)

            And although that may not make me popular, I'm just stating my opinion.
            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


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              #7
              Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

              I'm starting to become ashamed of the US to be honest, with them spying on other countries. If I won the lottery, I'd probably honestly move out of here or something. They don't own the world, and yet maybe a third of the US population thinks they do.

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                #8
                Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                I'm on the other side of the fence. But then I'm in the UK. We need whistleblowers in all walks of life. Because it seems to me that some people in government, both here and elsewhere, seem to think they can get away with anything. And they shouldn't think that because actually, they're suppose to work for us - the people.

                Recently, I think it was our foreign secretary, that snake-in-the-excrement William Hague who stated that the innocent have nothing to fear from surveillance. Bollocks. Quis custodiet ipsos custodiens? (Who watches the watchers themselves?)

                And although that may not make me popular, I'm just stating my opinion.
                I was going to say something but Tylluan already covered it all. Thanks
                And bonus points for the quote in Latin, I wouldn't have thought of that one.
                Warning: The above post may contain traces of sarcasm.

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                  #9
                  Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                  As we have an election coming up in September, both the Green party and the Left party have declared that if they form up the next government, they will give asylum to Snowden.


                  Apparently a lot of this is due to the fact that the US spied on Germany (why I have no idea), and a lot of people who aren't CDU supporters are really pissed about it.

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                    #10
                    Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                    Countries tend to be innately amoral 95% of the time on the international stage. I'll condemn the US for spying on other countries sometime after people demonstrate to me that every other country with foreign interests and any actual ability doesn't spy just as happily. That evidence better be compelling by the way since China and Russia have been caught at it within my lifetime. Pretty sure the UK is also happy to spy when they don't just borrow intel from us.

                    I do take issue with the US eroding protections for its own citizens but since the majority of both parties gleefully signed onto the Patriot Act and I've watched Presidents from both parties continue eroding said protections, I tend to think hyppocrite a lot when people that support either side with any particular vigor start telling me about how evil whatever party is over it.
                    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

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                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

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                      #11
                      Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                      Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                      As we have an election coming up in September, both the Green party and the Left party have declared that if they form up the next government, they will give asylum to Snowden.


                      Apparently a lot of this is due to the fact that the US spied on Germany (why I have no idea), and a lot of people who aren't CDU supporters are really pissed about it.
                      The US spies on everyone, since we're top dog...
                      Friend and foe alike... I don't like that... But we do
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                        #12
                        Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                        Pretty sure the UK is also happy to spy when they don't just borrow intel from us.
                        Absolutely! They do. There's been a huge fuss about the way they have spied on just about everyone, and have apparently used US intel to help them circumvent UK law.

                        But I am not waiting for other countries to be shown up with their ears to the listening devices before I complain. I complain now, long loud and shrill because it's wrong. It creates a haunted, shifty society, a world where people no longer feel safe speaking their mind. But if we cannot speak our minds freely, then what good are we as human beings?

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                          #13
                          Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                          By the way...I never said what I thought about surveillance, just what I thought about Snowden.

                          Two wrongs don't make a right, and the means don't justify the ends, and all that platitude business.
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                            #14
                            Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                            By the way...I never said what I thought about surveillance, just what I thought about Snowden.

                            Two wrongs don't make a right, and the means don't justify the ends, and all that platitude business.
                            Mr Penry and I argued on this very topic for hours last night...
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                              #15
                              Re: Snowden,Leaks,secret spying and China and russia

                              Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                              Countries tend to be innately amoral 95% of the time on the international stage. I'll condemn the US for spying on other countries sometime after people demonstrate to me that every other country with foreign interests and any actual ability doesn't spy just as happily. That evidence better be compelling by the way since China and Russia have been caught at it within my lifetime. Pretty sure the UK is also happy to spy when they don't just borrow intel from us.

                              I do take issue with the US eroding protections for its own citizens but since the majority of both parties gleefully signed onto the Patriot Act and I've watched Presidents from both parties continue eroding said protections, I tend to think hyppocrite a lot when people that support either side with any particular vigor start telling me about how evil whatever party is over it.
                              I think if any other country was outed for doing so, they'd get just as much flack. I know for sure that Germany and the U.K. would, especially here in Europe. ESPECIALLY Germany. The rest of the world would jump at the Nazi and Stasi (east german secret police) thing, especially since the Stasi were known for spying on everyone all the time.

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