Heathen Q&A

[lorraine02]

Re: Heathen Q&A

thanks guys , I get so much information on it.

[ConnollyCelt]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Hey guys, just wondering what other Heathens think of the lore, and what place it occupies in our faith. Doing my readings, I've moved from a pantheist to a polytheist, and consequently my opinions on the lore are in question. I used to think of it as symbolism that is good for a read, but symbolism that was in the end written by humans, and so subject to question. And that posed a problem. If it was only written by human believers, that means the gods are just what humans have given them, and it would mean the lore is pure myth, right? If the Gods did not influence the writing of the lore it's all as useful as Lord of the Rings in the fact that it's a great yarn, but it's not a religious text.

But if it is not symbolism, then doesn't that mean it has to be real? I see the Gods as like human beings, and I know they have their own lives and life experiences. But how do I know the lore show those experiences? I don't think it's real, but the more I think about it it seems weird looking at it as symbolic too, as it means all I have learned about my Gods is stuff other humans have thought up. And how does that make being a Heathen any better than, say, Christianity or Taoism?

I've gotten myself a little confused over it all, and I hope you get what I mean. I'm a Heathen and I love the lore. I just don't know where I stand on it. Studying the lore is a big part of our faith, and yet it is something I haven't even been able to make my mind up about yet.

Thanks guys, I hope you can help me

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Hey guys, just wondering what other Heathens think of the lore, and what place it occupies in our faith. Doing my readings, I've moved from a pantheist to a polytheist, and consequently my opinions on the lore are in question. I used to think of it as symbolism that is good for a read, but symbolism that was in the end written by humans, and so subject to question. And that posed a problem. If it was only written by human believers, that means the gods are just what humans have given them, and it would mean the lore is pure myth, right? If the Gods did not influence the writing of the lore it's all as useful as Lord of the Rings in the fact that it's a great yarn, but it's not a religious text.

But if it is not symbolism, then doesn't that mean it has to be real? I see the Gods as like human beings, and I know they have their own lives and life experiences. But how do I know the lore show those experiences? I don't think it's real, but the more I think about it it seems weird looking at it as symbolic too, as it means all I have learned about my Gods is stuff other humans have thought up. And how does that make being a Heathen any better than, say, Christianity or Taoism?

I've gotten myself a little confused over it all, and I hope you get what I mean. I'm a Heathen and I love the lore. I just don't know where I stand on it. Studying the lore is a big part of our faith, and yet it is something I haven't even been able to make my mind up about yet.

Thanks guys, I hope you can help me

Your confusion is because you have an eclectic approach to heathenry, if you centered on one pantheon it may become clearer.

[ConnollyCelt]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Your confusion is because you have an eclectic approach to heathenry, if you centered on one pantheon it may become clearer.

I do have one pantheon :=S:

I'm an eclectic because I'm not a Recon.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Then try and adopt a reconstructionist approach to Heathenry as I do and understand what that connection to your ancestors really is.

[Wednesday]

Re: Heathen Q&A

If the Gods did not influence the writing of the lore it's all as useful as Lord of the Rings in the fact that it's a great yarn, but it's not a religious text.

No, it's not a religious text like the bible is a religious text. It's a collection of folklore and mythology that was familiar to the authors but isn't sacred or holy word.

And that posed a problem. If it was only written by human believers, that means the gods are just what humans have given them, and it would mean the lore is pure myth, right?

It's an attempt to paint a portrait of how pre-christians viewed the world. For example, the creation myth shows that there isn't a Creator God. The Germanic people saw the world as an natural and organic evolution of matter, and that Gods (also organically evolving from this and not "supernatural"), helped shape the order of our natural world. That worldview goes a long way in helping us shape our ideas of deity and the nature of life, without it needing to be from the mouth of Odin or fact.

Using the collection of mythology and evidence from various academic schools ( archeology et al) we can form a bigger picture of what the religious landscape consited of. That the gods are just inventions of the storytellers is clearly inaccurate.

But if it is not symbolism, then doesn't that mean it has to be real? I see the Gods as like human beings, and I know they have their own lives and life experiences.

That's arguable.

But how do I know the lore show those experiences? I don't think it's real, but the more I think about it it seems weird looking at it as symbolic too, as it means all I have learned about my Gods is stuff other humans have thought up. And how does that make being a Heathen any better than, say, Christianity or Taoism?

God is mysterious and unknowable, and the same wasn't true for heathenry. I don't know how heathenry could be defined as something someone just "thought up" when it's obvious to anyone that thunderstorms bring rain that helps crops to grow. It's not a big mystery that some shaman shared and the sheep followed. That heathens recognized the energy/personality/spirit of a storm and called this Thor isn't symbolic or metaphorical or mysterious. (Which is why I tend to argue the "gods are men" mindset).

Studying the lore is a big part of our faith, and yet it is something I haven't even been able to make my mind up about yet.

First of all, it isn't a "faith". Faith is something you have for things that are invisible, unknowable, and absent. The gods don't reside in some celestial hall, they're the personalities of the world around us. Do you have faith that there's an Earth or do you know that you live on it? Look at the creation tale...Ymir was killed and the earth is his flesh, the trees his hair, and the rivers his blood. What's there to have faith in? The trees, earth and rivers are all present.

Odin is divine fury, madness, poetry. These things exist without the need for faith in them. Love exists (Freyja), storms exist (Thor), justice exists (Tyr).

Second, The lore is only a big part of heathenry, and to reconstructionists, because it gives us a starting point for understanding the cultural connotations of heathenry. Someone can say that Thor isn't omnipresent and we can flip through the evidence and see that someone, somewhere, wrote that Thor leaves to the east and that gives us a foundation to further explore it. But if someone said that Thor rode a unicorn to the east, and there isn't any reference to that anywhere, than it isn't added to the overall material. It's fine for that one person to believe it-- maybe it has personal meaning-- but it doesn't have a broader cultural meaning.

[ConnollyCelt]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Thanks very much Wesnesday, you've been a great help. Much obliged.

[Yazichestvo]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Hey guys, just wondering what other Heathens think of the lore, and what place it occupies in our faith. Doing my readings, I've moved from a pantheist to a polytheist, and consequently my opinions on the lore are in question. I used to think of it as symbolism that is good for a read, but symbolism that was in the end written by humans, and so subject to question. And that posed a problem. If it was only written by human believers, that means the gods are just what humans have given them, and it would mean the lore is pure myth, right? If the Gods did not influence the writing of the lore it's all as useful as Lord of the Rings in the fact that it's a great yarn, but it's not a religious text.

But if it is not symbolism, then doesn't that mean it has to be real? I see the Gods as like human beings, and I know they have their own lives and life experiences. But how do I know the lore show those experiences? I don't think it's real, but the more I think about it it seems weird looking at it as symbolic too, as it means all I have learned about my Gods is stuff other humans have thought up. And how does that make being a Heathen any better than, say, Christianity or Taoism?

I've gotten myself a little confused over it all, and I hope you get what I mean. I'm a Heathen and I love the lore. I just don't know where I stand on it. Studying the lore is a big part of our faith, and yet it is something I haven't even been able to make my mind up about yet.

Thanks guys, I hope you can help me

As a Slavic Reconstructionist with early Heathen roots, I can understand where you are coming from. I will argue that mythology is true, but also that it comes from the perspective of humans. Not just humans, but ancient humans with limited understanding. I do believe very strongly in literal polytheism; it is the default religion of all cultures from the dawn of time, Even in Canaan, the cradle of monotheism, this is apparent. However, even if I believe that myths portray the truth, I don't assume that they portray the entire truth.

I believe that early humans had an imperfect understanding of the Gods and the universe, as any mortal must. Remember, the myths do not take place in our human world, but in other realms. So while they may be true they are not necessarily to be interpreted literally. Thor's hammer is not necessarily a physical hammer that you or I would recognize, and Yggdrasil is not necessarily a physical tree like we have here on Earth. These are just descriptions of something immortal in terms that mortals can relate to.

What I think our ancestors did know, however, was what worked and what didn't. Just as they knew how to ferment alcohol without understanding yeast or alcoholic fermentation, and just as they learned to make steel without understanding how, they knew what worked. It is the practice itself that I have faith in; honoring the Gods and ancestors brings about a positive outcome. Who and where they are is a mystery that myths only attempt to put within reach of our understanding.

[Shadow Wolf]

Re: Heathen Q&A

This thread hasn't been posted to in a while, but I don't want to take up a whole new thread for a simple question like this.

Note: I'm fairly new to Heathenry, so forgive me if I ask some stupid questions on here.

I know that most Heathens don't consider the myths about the Gods to be literally true, but what about the stories about heroes like Sigurd? Are they generally thought of in the same way as the legends about the Gods, or are they different somehow?

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Heathen Q&A

What's the difference between heathen and the Celtic faith (or say, a German faith)?

[Corvus]

Re: Heathen Q&A

What's the difference between heathen and the Celtic faith (or say, a German faith)?

Heathen usually refers to Scandinavia, Celtic is the British Isles area, Germanic is central Europe, if I understand correctly. There's probably some diffusion between them but that's to be expected with them being relatively close to one another.

[Optimistic discord]

Re: Heathen Q&A

This thread hasn't been posted to in a while, but I don't want to take up a whole new thread for a simple question like this.

Note: I'm fairly new to Heathenry, so forgive me if I ask some stupid questions on here.

I know that most Heathens don't consider the myths about the Gods to be literally true, but what about the stories about heroes like Sigurd? Are they generally thought of in the same way as the legends about the Gods, or are they different somehow?

One of the joys of being brought up in a landscape filled with our ancestors and their remains is that its easy to accept that a lot of the stories probably contain some element of truth, if they have become grander things over the generations then that is all the better.
A good number of heroic stories are concerning really mundane acts at their heart(cattle theft, kidnapping, border wars, insults) all quite believable.

What's the difference between heathen and the Celtic faith (or say, a German faith)?

Heathen is just someone who does not follow the Judaic god, more recently its been co-opted by some of us to use as a term to cover germanic/norse beliefs.

Celtic faiths cover a wide range of beliefs loosely based on those of western europe pre-roman conquest.

I'm to tired right now to explain it any better without sounding patronizing or possibly offending some one, I am sure someone else can do so

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Heathen usually refers to Scandinavia, Celtic is the British Isles area, Germanic is central Europe, if I understand correctly. There's probably some diffusion between them but that's to be expected with them being relatively close to one another.

Ohhhh... Ok! Thank you for clearing that up, the more you know!

[Rick]

Re: Heathen Q&A

This thread hasn't been posted to in a while, but I don't want to take up a whole new thread for a simple question like this.

Note: I'm fairly new to Heathenry, so forgive me if I ask some stupid questions on here.

I know that most Heathens don't consider the myths about the Gods to be literally true, but what about the stories about heroes like Sigurd? Are they generally thought of in the same way as the legends about the Gods, or are they different somehow?

What, exactly, is it that leads you to believe that "most" Heathens don't believe the Eddaic stories to be true?

As to the Heroes, they are probably enhanced versions of historical events, at least in many cases. Some, like Hrolf Kraki's Saga, take heroes from different historical periods and locations and blend them together. The same is true of the Sig heroes (Sigmund, Sigfried, Sigurd, not necessarily in that order), where they become the hero reincarnated. Other sagas, such as Orkneyinga Saga and Sagas of Icelanders are likely relatively historically accurate.

What's the difference between heathen and the Celtic faith (or say, a German faith)?

Heathen is generally applied to someone who follows the Teutonic gods, although I've known a few Druids that refer to themselves in that way.

[Shadow Wolf]

Re: Heathen Q&A

What, exactly, is it that leads you to believe that "most" Heathens don't believe the Eddaic stories to be true?

Well most Heathens I've talked to have told me that the majority don't believe the myths to be literally true. Sorry if that's not correct.