Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

[Gleb]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

It's talking about people who are not fighting Muslims for their religion, nor driving them out of their homes. It is those people, who are peaceful towards Muslims that the verse is talking about.

Aaaah... Now I see. Thank you

[Siloh]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

Hey Dumuzi. Seems like the other Abrahamic "Ask A..." threads are experiencing some hiatuses, so maybe it would be helpful for me to gain a Muslim perspective on one of my questions concerning Jesus, to you, as I understand, a prophet.

So I've been attending a Baptist church for completely non-religious reasons, and you probably don't recall but I was raised Jewish. I am also attending bible study and Sunday school (I know, but really, totally unrelated to religious interest: I'm learning a new language that these meetings employ). Anyway, all their talk about Jesus and Jews got me looking into some stuff about Jesus, because a lot of what they say about Jews and Jesus are totally new to me. I mean there are things they say Jews do and they look to me for confirmation and I have no clue what they're going on about, so then I go home and look into it. It's bizarre, but going to church is somehow making me more Jewish in that it encourages me to study the religion I was raised in.

On to my confusion. So the Baptists are always talking about how Jesus showed himself to be the true son of God and the messiah, and they talk about all the stuff he did to convince the Jews that he was what he proclaimed. Well, I've poked into this a bit to see why exactly Jews refute Jesus as the messiah or son of God, and frankly I assumed that at least somewhere I would see Jewish scholars referencing him as a sort of prophet rather than moshiach, but this is not so.

Actually, the rejection of Jesus seems to go so far as to call him a false prophet, a false messiah, and all around someone who is the antithesis of these things, because he didn't fit the bill, so to speak, and performing these miracles while clearly not being the messiah (according to Jewish prophecy) simply shows him to be not just a liar but a really bad guy who has done serious damage to the Jewish people, who of course believe they are God's people.

Sooo... Given that Muslims share ancient common ground with the Jews, how did Muslims develop this belief that Jesus was in fact a prophet, and is it problematic for Muslims that Jesus proclaimed himself the messiah if Islam does not recognize him as such? How do you explain to Christians that Islam does not view Jesus as the son of God in the sense that they do but that you see him as an integral prophet in Islam? According to the Baptists here, Jesus was not ambiguous about announcing his identity as God, the son of God, and the messiah come to deliver them. Frankly my job as a Jew refuting Jesus as God on earth or anything resembling the voice of God seems a bit simpler than saying he was not the messiah but he was a prophet, given the assertions I hear made about Jesus fully laying claim to being the messiah.

Thanks in advance for any guidance on this topic. I am super appreciative.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

I've heard the distinction once or twice before but could you break down the whole Sunni/Shiite divide. From the outside it looks like it influences far too much of the Mid-East political landscape and I'm not entirely sure why.

[nbdy]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

Siloh, I would be interested to know where in the Christian Bible Jesus lays claim to being the messiah. I was shunned at age 16 for deciding, based upon deep study of scripture, that Jesus was the son of God only inasmuch as we are all children of God.

MO, I was told by an Islamic friend that the big rift occurred because some thought the leader must be a blood relative of the Prophet (Shia) and others thought that the leader should be elected by consensus of the faithful (Sunni). Most Muslims are Sunni.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

Sooo... Given that Muslims share ancient common ground with the Jews, how did Muslims develop this belief that Jesus was in fact a prophet, and is it problematic for Muslims that Jesus proclaimed himself the messiah if Islam does not recognize him as such? How do you explain to Christians that Islam does not view Jesus as the son of God in the sense that they do but that you see him as an integral prophet in Islam? According to the Baptists here, Jesus was not ambiguous about announcing his identity as God, the son of God, and the messiah come to deliver them. Frankly my job as a Jew refuting Jesus as God on earth or anything resembling the voice of God seems a bit simpler than saying he was not the messiah but he was a prophet, given the assertions I hear made about Jesus fully laying claim to being the messiah.

Thanks in advance for any guidance on this topic. I am super appreciative.

Really interesting questions, Siloh!

First of all some ground rules. The main source for what a Muslim believes is the Qur'an. And the Qur'an does give us some information about Jesus Christ, peace be upon him. For example one part says the following about him:

[And mention] when the angels said, "O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary - distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near [to Allah ]. He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous." She said, "My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?" [The angel] said, "Such is Allah ; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it is. And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel [3:45-48]

So as you can see, we believe Jesus, peace be upon him, to be a messenger and prophet of god, and we don't have a problem with titles like Messiah or the fact he did many miracles that are mentioned in a lot of places in the Qur'an. The only problem we have is to make Jesus a part of a trinity, which makes up god.

And to get back to ground rules. Muslims believe in the Torah and the Gospel, as mentioned above for example. The problem is that we believe in the Torah which was revealed to Moses, peace be upon him, and the Gospel revealed to Jesus, peace be upon him. We do NOT believe what we have today is the same book that was given to these prophets. A lot of Christian historians will agree with that. You see, we have the Gospel according to Mark, according to Luke etc. But there is no Gospel according to Jesus.

So with all of that said, we don't really automatically take things that are written in the Bible to be the exact verbatim word of god. Which should answer your question about how we explain our different beliefs about Jesus, peace be upon him.

Another VERY important point that I'd like to mention. If you take the words of Jesus, peace be upon him, himself in the gospels. He never makes the claim to be god, nor does he mention a trinity anywhere! In fact, there is no mention of a trinity anywhere in the bible by all the prophets of god. And in some places, he even directly makes sure people don't confuse him with god!

Matthew 19:16-17
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

John 20:17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is my opinion that there is great ambiguity when it comes to Jesus, peace be upon him, in Christianity. There is a lot of doubt when people actually read what he allegedly said about himself. I'd like to end this reply with the following thought. There is a very important verse in the Bible, which I think explains everything going on here. It shows you that the difference between Christianity and Islam when it comes to Jesus, peace be upon him, is simply that Christianity is a religion about Jesus, while Islam is the religion of Jesus. For he submitted to god and prayed to god just like Muslims do (his mother even dresses like Muslim women )

Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Notice how he pushes away those that do things in HIS name? Some today even call their religion after Christ. But it is those the do the will of the Father that enter heaven. Which is why we choose to submit (being Muslim in Arabic) to god, and god alone.

O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs. [4:171]

Hope that answers your question

[Heka]

D, your replies are always awesome. Come back and teach us.

[Odahviing]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

D, your replies are always awesome. Come back and teach us.

^What he said.^

I think the entirety of the internet just got a little less stupid thanks to that.

[Heka]

^What he said.^

I think the entirety of the internet just got a little less stupid thanks to that.

She*

/10fyis

[anunitu]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

Damn Heka,ya done gone and had the "Sex Change"???

[Heka]

Damn Heka,ya done gone and had the "Sex Change"???

The politically correct term is 'gender reassignment surgery'. Just because I was born in a mans body, doesn't mean I was ever male...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

^What he said.^

I think the entirety of the internet just got a little less stupid thanks to that.

That would require open minded reading. Don't hold your breath.

[Odahviing]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

She*

/10fyis

Oh, sorry. Writing too fast.

[Heka]

Oh, sorry. Writing too fast.

Tis all good. I like that I can flit between the sexes...

[Siloh]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

Thank you. That does answer the questions I put to you. However, it seems I have even more questions for the Baptists.

I try not to ask them many questions, though. The more my mouth is open in their vicinity, the more I think I'll draw unnecessary attention to myself.

One more question, a really odd one... Do Muslims believe there are djinn in our midst today?

[linz]

Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

Hi.. I have just joined and have read some of the posts but not all.... Just to say i think we should all be more tolerant of all religions/ people. Me and my daughter, then aged 17 visited Egypt and the men treated us both with upmost respect. I have to say however it was the start of Ramadan and we both covered our bodies and wore headscarves out of respect for the culture/ religion of the place we were visiting.