How many Deities are there?

[Tarn]

I've been on a pagan path for only three years, so I'm new at this.

My question is actually: are there really different Deities, separate entities or spirits? Or is there one Deity, and all the "Gods/Goddesses" are nothing more than different aspects of that one entity that were seen by different people?

Much like if five people look at the same panting and then tell you about it, you will get five different versions of what that panting looked like.

I find myself being able to believe either way. With The Morrigan and Hecate being from different cultures, yet so similar, that would support the "one Deity being seen by different people" theory. Yet there are Deities that have nothing in common outside of being Deities, which would support the "different Deities" theory.

What are your thoughts on this? Remember, I'm learning; so I'm interested in what everyone thinks.

Thanks in advance.

[Aniera]

Re: How many Deities are there?

I believe that its strictly up to the person you ask. For myself- I tend to learn more towards the one large diety that we break down to smaller facets of themselves so it creates a more personal feel. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure there are others who would differ.

So I agree more with the ask five people to look at a painting theory... I think I'm always evolving

[alternatingSelves]

Re: How many Deities are there?

this is something my opinion changes on a lot -_- I'm leaning towards believing that every time various religions have a similar sounding god, it's because they have applied different names and interpretations to the same god. that's why, for example, the god of judaism, christianity, and islam are very similar. or why there are so many similar roman and greek gods. that kind of thing. it's people sensing the power of a god and reading them differently

[Satu]

Re: How many Deities are there?

All of this is personal opinion, and of course other people will have their own views.

For me, it's . . . complicated. LOL.

I'm a hard polytheist, meaning that I believe most deities are separate entities who may derive from one deity, but are not the same as that deity. (Hope I made sense right there.) But I also believe there's a little bit of every deity in every other deity. For example, there's a little bit of Zeus in Bast, a little bit of Amun in Odin, a little bit of Brighid in Ra, etc.You see that when you engage deeply with one deity. In other words, you'll see the Amun in Odin if you're deeply engaged with Odin and working with him very closely.

What you find to be true for yourself will depend upon how you experience deity, and you won't necessarily experience it how you want. For example, I've kind of wanted to be a softer polytheist, where all deities are aspects of One, and then worship the One. But all my personal experiences point to hard polytheism.

That said, you're going to find a lot of overlap in the divine world because that's just how reality works. I mean, look to the human world. We overlap a lot. For example, there are millions of artists out there and, while we might refer to them as "artists in general", we never think of them as being aspects of one artist seen by everyone around the world. I don't see why it's necessarily any different with deities.

[Sean R. R.]

Re: How many Deities are there?

I believe the same God/Goddess can have various names through history and civilizations, but I believe that each separate deity is indeed an independent entity, not a part of an absolute.

[Alienist]

Re: How many Deities are there?

I think that all of them are seperate. You think if they were all the same deity, we would all do the same or at least similar rituals or have the same customs. Some panteons such as Sumerian and Babylonian are basically the same gods and goddesses except with different names, like with Greek and Roman gods and goddesses. I don't think the Heathen and Egyptian deities are the same. A lot of panteons are radically different from others. I don't even think God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same being or that Yahweh from the Old Testament is the same as Yahweh from the New Testament. A lot of them not only have different traditions rules and customs but also different personalities and backgrounds as well. Pantheons always seem to have a head deity, i.e. Odin, Zeus ect. or magic/science deitiy, i.e. Thoth, Hermes, or Fraternity goddess like Inanna, Aphrodite, Freyja but a lot of them are really seprate and I don't think they are all part of one deity.

[Kahlenda]

Re: How many Deities are there?

well for me personally, im a pantheist, which means i believe they all exist, and i believe they all exist as seperate entities. with a few exceptions. for example the christian/catholic/jewish/muslim god the all agree its the same god and just argue about how he should be worshipped or weather such and such a person was a son or a prophet. but i believe in the power of the human mind and that even if these beings did not exist in the beginning that out collective belief and will brought them into existance. of course then you can argue the whole other demension and outside of time concepts meanings they were always theres and effect leading to cause and to borrow words from doctor who it all becomes a big ball of wibbly wobbly time wimey stuff. so yeah my beliefs make peoples heads hurt.

[Tarn]

Re: How many Deities are there?

That said, you're going to find a lot of overlap in the divine world because that's just how reality works. I mean, look to the human world. We overlap a lot. For example, there are millions of artists out there and, while we might refer to them as "artists in general", we never think of them as being aspects of one artist seen by everyone around the world. I don't see why it's necessarily any different with deities.

I was looking for a way to put it, and you did it perfectly.

Coming from a Christian tradition, I am trying to settle the "one god vs. many gods" issue. While I don't consider it impossible for there to be more than on Deity, it is a little difficult for me to comprehend. I seem to do best when I compare it to them (the Deities) existing in a "community" kind of like how humans do. I imagine that there is a realm, plain, or otherworld that they exist in the way we exist on earth. But then my concept of a God or Goddess is a really huge entity. And that brings up "where would they exist?" type of thoughts. I know, I'm over-thinking it.

But then, even in that light, I still have difficulty letting go of the idea that there can be more than one God, or Deity. As indicated by those who have said something to the effect of "it is a personal decision", there is evidence to support both sides of the debate.

Maybe I should ask if it really matters if there is one Deity, or more than one. Does it matter if I ask Nemesis to help me find balance in my life, and ask Macha to help me understand the aspects of nature; and the truth is that I'm asking different aspects of a single Deity?

My only concern about multiple Deities is in a case where I (or anyone) might call upon two Deities that don't get along. Kind of like inviting your girlfriend "A" and your girlfriend "B" to come over and enjoy a romantic evening with you on the same night. It could be awkward, you know. And instead of getting the desires help from both of them, you end up having to deal with a certain amount of wrath from the both of them. Make any sense?

[SaintElvis]

Re: How many Deities are there?

If the Universe sprouted forth multiple Galaxies, the Galaxies sprouted forth multiple Stars, the Stars sprouted forth multiple Planets, the Planets sprouted forth multiple Lifeforms - why would there not be a plethora of Devas?

[Alienist]

Re: How many Deities are there?

There are multiple deities for sure. I always thought it was strange that a person who belongs to a certain religion, a narrow minded person would think that their deity or deities exist and no other deitiy or deities exist, like if a person think that only Yahweh exists and all of the others don't exist which is impossible because considering religions that existed before Christianity or Judaism like Zoroastrianism Hinduism or the Egyptian pantehon, of course other deities exist. Yahweh is one of many deities. Because if all of the other deities didn't exist, why would they have made statues, traditions and temples to those deities? I think the Egyptian, Heathen, Greek and Hindu Pantheon as well as the monothesitic deities like Ahura Mazda or Yahweh exist.

In fact when people ask me, "Do you believe in God?" I almost always assume they are talking about the Jewish or Christian God, but nevertheless, I say "Which god? There's more than one." For all I know they could refer to Yahweh or Jesus or the god Waheguru in Sikhism.

[Satu]

Re: How many Deities are there?

Coming from a Christian tradition, I am trying to settle the "one god vs. many gods" issue. While I don't consider it impossible for there to be more than on Deity, it is a little difficult for me to comprehend. I seem to do best when I compare it to them (the Deities) existing in a "community" kind of like how humans do. I imagine that there is a realm, plain, or otherworld that they exist in the way we exist on earth. But then my concept of a God or Goddess is a really huge entity. And that brings up "where would they exist?" type of thoughts. I know, I'm over-thinking it.

It takes time to adjust to a polytheistic perspective. It's taken me two years just to begin to understand the implications of a polytheistic universe. When you come from a monotheistic or atheistic (or even agnostic) perspective, polytheism is incredibly disorienting.

Where deities exist depends on you. Some say they exist in the Farworld--however you want to define that--and come to visit humans in the mundane world. Others say that deities are immanent in most or even all things, from a flower to a lamp. From personal experience, the universe is a lot bigger than we humans can perceive. There's an entire "undercurrent" around us, a sort of unseen plane that intersects with our own, if that makes sense.

The best way, in my opinion, to come to terms with all of this and have it make some kind of sense is to reach out to the gods. Again, it takes time to really absorb and comprehend everything. So be patient with yourself and I think you'll find, as you're walking along your path, that things just start to click. Things that didn't make sense suddenly do.

But then, even in that light, I still have difficulty letting go of the idea that there can be more than one God, or Deity. As indicated by those who have said something to the effect of "it is a personal decision", there is evidence to support both sides of the debate.

Experience, I think, is a big helper in this situation. You'll always have your doubts--a healthy skepticism is a good thing to cultivate in any religious practice--, but you'll get to a point where you can say, "based off what I've experienced, what I know for sure, and what I believe, I think _____."

Time will help, too. Again, when you come from the more restrictive theisms, polytheism is tough to wrap your head around.

Maybe I should ask if it really matters if there is one Deity, or more than one. Does it matter if I ask Nemesis to help me find balance in my life, and ask Macha to help me understand the aspects of nature; and the truth is that I'm asking different aspects of a single Deity?

If you believe deities are separate entities, it could make a BIG difference. If you don't, then it doesn't make much of a difference at all.

This is my perspective as a hard polytheist: some gods don't want to share you. Some pantheons don't want to share you. So Nemesis could very well get pissed that you're over there hanging out with Macha when there are other perfectly capable deities within Her pantheon that could fulfill the same role for you. On the other hand, Macha might be confused as to why you're knocking on Her door in Her neighborhood when there's nothing wrong with yours.

Then again, the gods might not care. If we're talking about beings with their own personality and existence, there's generally no one right answer to almost ANYTHING.

My only concern about multiple Deities is in a case where I (or anyone) might call upon two Deities that don't get along. Kind of like inviting your girlfriend "A" and your girlfriend "B" to come over and enjoy a romantic evening with you on the same night. It could be awkward, you know. And instead of getting the desires help from both of them, you end up having to deal with a certain amount of wrath from the both of them. Make any sense?

Yet another challenge of living and working within a polytheistic framework. If you believe that deities are separate entities with their own likes, dislikes, personalities, etc., then you'll want to read up on anybody you plan on inviting into a circle/rite/whatever. If you believe that deities are simply psychological forms, then this becomes less of a problem. So here's another context where understanding deity from your perspective could be important.

Most people--but especially hard polytheists--will recommend you keep your pantheons separate. Don't call Zeus and Kali into the same circle, for example, or Amun-Ra and Odin. Don't call deities who hate each other's guts into the same circle. Understand who you're dealing with, and make sure to give the appropriate offerings in return for any assistance. But again, if you don't view deities as beings in their own right, this is less of a problem. If Zeus just represents virility and Kali simply represents the all-devouring nature of time, then what's the big deal about calling Them into the same circle, or rite?

[alternatingSelves]

Re: How many Deities are there?

I think monotheists believe that other religions were wrong, or worshipped false gods. to be fair, most religions contain a lot of people who believe they're right and everyone else is wrong

edit: this was meant as a reply to the post before last

[Rae'ya]

Re: How many Deities are there?

My question is actually: are there really different Deities, separate entities or spirits? Or is there one Deity, and all the "Gods/Goddesses" are nothing more than different aspects of that one entity that were seen by different people?

I'm a hard polytheist and an animist... I believe that each and every deity is a distinct and individual entity that exists in the Otherworlds. I believe that they existed in the Otherworlds before humans became aware of them, and will continue to exist there long after we stop being aware of them.

However, I believe there are a few deities who came about as egregores... who were essentially created by people's belief and who exist now as an independent entity. These few exceptions I think were originally one aspect of an existing entity which was split off and worshiped exclusively to the point that it became a separate deity of sorts. I personally believe that pretty much the entire Roman pantheon falls in here, and entities like the Judeo-Christian Devil. I wonder if these entities will lose their individuality when people stop worshiping them, or if they will continue on like a well constructed servitor does. Egregores can evolve and learn, so either is possible, I suppose.

On top of that I do actually believe in Archetypes, to an extent. I think that Archetypes are specifically the human interface that helps us to connect with deities. The interface applies to different cultures and pantheons, because of the way that the human mind and collective unconscious has evolved... hence we end up with certain deities who fill similar roles within different cultures. Some people believe that makes them the same deity with a different name. Some believe they're different deities who just happen to do the same 'job'. That's me... I think that doing the same job does not make them the same entity. I think it's likely that the Archetype interface developed as a way for us to categorise and sort emerging entities, and that as we became aware of new entities that qualified as 'deity' they were sorted into the Archetypes in order to help us relate to them as a global species rather than an individual tribe or community.

I'm also a panentheist, so I believe that overarching all of this is an energy that is quite separate to the deities. That's what I call The Divine. It's the pervasive, immanent life energy that is indwelling in everything... human and deity included. It's what the pantheists consider to be 'The All' or 'The Universe' or whatever. I think that some people can tap directly into The Divine, and that the Archetypes serve as an interface for that also.

So why would a deity who is a distinct individual respond to a person who thinks that they are just another facet of Sacrificial Corn King? That's where the Divine Answering Machine comes into play. Or that's where a person may be tapping directly into The Divine using the Archetype interface. Basically, I don't think that soft polytheists and syncretists are getting any less of a divine experience, it's just different to mine.

[Louisvillian]

Re: How many Deities are there?

My question is actually: are there really different Deities, separate entities or spirits?

I believe so, as I am a mostly a hard polytheist. My experiences, and several of the experiences I have read about from others, seem to point towards the idea that the many god-forms are indeed separate entities. Though I'm also kinda animist, kinda panentheist, kinda soft polytheist about certain aspects of the divine. Frankly, Rae'ya elucidated it in more detail than I can right now, as I am very tired and need sleep.

But don't take my word for it. Find out for yourself.

With The Morrigan and Hecate being from different cultures, yet so similar, that would support the "one Deity being seen by different people" theory.

You have to consider the cultural elements at play, though. The ancient Celts and the ancient Greeks were both Indo-European groups. And their gods were not worshipped in a vacuum. The people directed some of their cultural expectations, archetypes, and ideas upon the beings they worshipped. Think about how most Indo-European cultures have had a lightning-and-thunder type of sky-god, even though these deities may have differed considerably in their behaviour or attitudes. The culture had that niche.

[Tarn]

Re: How many Deities are there?

However, I believe there are a few deities who came about as egregores... who were essentially created by people's belief and who exist now as an independent entity. These few exceptions I think were originally one aspect of an existing entity which was split off and worshiped exclusively to the point that it became a separate deity of sorts. I personally believe that pretty much the entire Roman pantheon falls in here, and entities like the Judeo-Christian Devil. I wonder if these entities will lose their individuality when people stop worshiping them, or if they will continue on like a well constructed servitor does. Egregores can evolve and learn, so either is possible, I suppose.

Egregores... Ah! Another fork in my path that looks like it could be a little rough. Actually, having Mt. Everest on my path could be a little rough... this could be difficult (he says with a grin). While I have heard of the concept of a Deity coming into existence through worship, I have not given it much consideration at this point as I am still dealing with Deities that have historical credit. My biggest question about this type of deity is: If I (meaning man) created the deity, would that not make me more powerful than the deity I created? And as such, would that not make that deity less able to help me with my needs?

... Some people believe that makes them the same deity with a different name. Some believe they're different deities who just happen to do the same 'job' ...

Regardless if there is one, or more than one Deity, I can definitely say that I believe that some of the deities/names that exist are simply a different name given to the same deity. Much the way that different cultures have different words to say "Hello", or different languages have different words, or names, for a chair. Given that a Goddess or God being what they are, would have to be able to make Themselves know in any part of the world, and that each culture would have no idea what another culture had named this Deity, there must be a few cases of the same Deity being called different names in different cultures. That aside, I do see that Deities, like humans, can be completely different yet do the exact same thing, or things. For example, you and I are different, yet we both are typing on a keyboard and conversing to each other. We are different, yet we are dong the same thing. I agree, doing the same job does not make them the same deity. There are millions of cab drivers, but each driver is an individual.

I agree with your explanation of the Devine Answering Machine. It is one that I had not considered before. Thank you for the insight. I looked at it more like the Deity would respond mostly because the Deity would be understanding of the mis-concept, and would be willing to help anyway. Kind of like when someone says "Paul, could you give me a hand?" to me; although my name is not Paul, I agree to help them and let them know my real name as I help.

You have given me much to consider. I thank you for throwing a couple of hurdles in my path (although you could have held on to Mt. Everest for a while).