How many Deities are there?

[Optimistic discord]

Re: How many Deities are there?

I've been on a pagan path for only three years, so I'm new at this.

My question is actually: are there really different Deities, separate entities or spirits? Or is there one Deity, and all the "Gods/Goddesses" are nothing more than different aspects of that one entity that were seen by different people?

Much like if five people look at the same panting and then tell you about it, you will get five different versions of what that panting looked like.

I find myself being able to believe either way. With The Morrigan and Hecate being from different cultures, yet so similar, that would support the "one Deity being seen by different people" theory. Yet there are Deities that have nothing in common outside of being Deities, which would support the "different Deities" theory.

What are your thoughts on this? Remember, I'm learning; so I'm interested in what everyone thinks.

Thanks in advance.

Like a few others I am a polytheist, there are many gods/spirits that we can communicate with some are ancient others are not
Actually you can probably just insert a lot of what others have said here, I was hoping to be the first to bring up Egregores as I believe there are many entities which have been created as a result of our actions and thoughts, some of these beings are remarkably powerful, others not so much.

Some deities have been known by other names, that is obvious but I do not accept that they are all just a small handful or single deity running around with a lot of different hats.Equally I can quite happily accept that any deity can have quite different personality traits depending on who and where and when you are, without changing WHO they are.

I have noticed the "different hats" argument used a lot by monotheist followers trying to "be nice" and make allowances for us heathens, running around following "made up gods", I find it a little dishonest and patronising.

[Tarn]

Re: How many Deities are there?

Where deities exist depends on you. Some say they exist in the Farworld--however you want to define that--and come to visit humans in the mundane world. Others say that deities are immanent in most or even all things, from a flower to a lamp. From personal experience, the universe is a lot bigger than we humans can perceive.

As I believe now, I call it the "Underworld". This is mostly from the argument that when humans first became aware of the sun rising in one spot and setting in another. They saw it arc across the sky going from east to west, but never saw it return from west to east. They concluded, not yet knowing the world was round, that there was a world beneath them. And the sun would shine upon that world while this one was in darkness. Plus I am being drawn to, and am having to deal with and learn about Deities of the underworld.

There's an entire "undercurrent" around us, a sort of unseen plane that intersects with our own, if that makes sense.

Yes, that does. I would not have said it like that, but that is about how I see the plain, or realm that Deities (and maybe even us as spirits) exist. It can be felt, but not touched. It is there yet we don't really feel it as we would the wind, or the heat from the sun. Maybe, this is what I am referring to when I speak of the underworld. I don't know.

Experience, I think, is a big helper in this situation. You'll always have your doubts--a healthy skepticism is a good thing to cultivate in any religious practice--, but you'll get to a point where you can say, "based off what I've experienced, what I know for sure, and what I believe, I think _____."

It is in my nature to question everything. I am, without doubt, a skeptic. But I don't do it to question if something is wright or wrong as much as I do it to try and see it from different viewpoints. From my viewpoint, chocolate chip cookies should have nothing else added to them. But I will try them with different nuts, I will try them with raisins, and I will try them with different ingredients used; so I can see them from different view points. Sometimes the new viewpoint will cause me to change my own view point, sometimes it will not, and sometimes it will re-affirm what I already believe.

For example, I am questioning if there is one Deity, or if there are many Deities. So far, I have been given many different ways to look at both sides. And it is changing my belief in some ways while it is strengthening my belief in other ways.

And the best part is that even if I do not agree with something that I hear... at least I will have an understanding of that viewpoint.

If you believe deities are separate entities, it could make a BIG difference. If you don't, then it doesn't make much of a difference at all.

I'm a little confused on this. Assuming that there are many Deities, I understand how it could make a big difference. I do not see how it could make a difference if I believed there were many Deities and the fact was that there was only one. I look at it like I call upon Macha and Nemesis. Soon a kindly and helpful Goddess comes to me and gets me pointed in the right direction. Once that is done She smiles and says "By the way, my name is Mildred. The Celts call me Macha, the Greeks call me Nemesis, and many other people call me many other names". (Did that make any sense?)

This is my perspective as a hard polytheist: some gods don't want to share you. Some pantheons don't want to share you. So Nemesis could very well get pissed that you're over there hanging out with Macha when there are other perfectly capable deities within Her pantheon that could fulfill the same role for you. On the other hand, Macha might be confused as to why you're knocking on Her door in Her neighborhood when there's nothing wrong with yours.

Exactly! If I'm going to believe that there are many Deities, then I don't see how I cannot believe that some of them may be a "jealous" Deity, and want you to come to only them for your needs. I have heard people tell how they are following a particular Deity and looking to no others. Then another Deity will show up and do something very specific, and then go away again. Kind of like a specialist, for lack of a better way to describe it. And I have heard of people talking about working with more than one Deity at the same time. I can see this as being two separate Deities, and I can see it being two different aspects of one Deity as well. Pros and cons, and support for both viewpoints.

Most people--but especially hard polytheists--will recommend you keep your pantheons separate. Don't call Zeus and Kali into the same circle, for example, or Amun-Ra and Odin. Don't call deities who hate each other's guts into the same circle....

Some of the best advice one could ever receive! That is one of the things that make accepting that there are many Deities a little difficult. Once one accepts that there is more than one, then one needs to consider that They (the Deities) may not all get along with each other. While I can see good advantage in having more than one Deity teaching a particular lesson (getting more than one view of the same subject), I find it hard to imagine the Deities as not being jealous. Remember I'm coming from Jehovah, a very jealous God.

Your thoughts have given me plenty to ponder. It will take some time to digest all if it, but it's like being at a festival of food. Take one's time and enjoy.

Thanks.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: How many Deities are there?

As I believe now, I call it the "Underworld". This is mostly from the argument that when humans first became aware of the sun rising in one spot and setting in another. They saw it arc across the sky going from east to west, but never saw it return from west to east. They concluded, not yet knowing the world was round, that there was a world beneath them. And the sun would shine upon that world while this one was in darkness. Plus I am being drawn to, and am having to deal with and learn about Deities of the underworld.
..

I would equate that more to the sense of life springs from the earth and death returns to the earth thus from death there is life and from life there is death. Giving rise to the chthonic gods / goddesses who oversaw fertility, fecundity, birth, death, etc and the things associated with them. The sense of an underworld broken down into many sections with the abode or domain of the dead often located beneath the earths surface but supported by the notion of the dead returning to the earth and life rising from the earth.

My personal beliefs are there are many gods / goddesses yet there are also many semi-divine or nearly divine entities that may try to pass themselves off as being divine. You might call them demons, daemons, daimons, nymphs, dryads, elementals, etc. They tend to be higher than humanity but lessor than the divine yet possess abilities or powers of their own to grant limited wishes or requests. Though most gain followers through manipulation of humanity and their ability to offer greatness while giving little actual proof. Then you have the constructs that have gained self awareness which one might call an egregore or a free roam / free will servitor. You might also add the psychological constructs who gain form and power through the creation of a supporting mythology and history such as suggested by Lovecraft and his tales or mythology of Cthulhu cosmology. Not typical egreogore's but still a form of construct.

[Rae'ya]

Re: How many Deities are there?

Egregores... Ah! Another fork in my path that looks like it could be a little rough. Actually, having Mt. Everest on my path could be a little rough... this could be difficult (he says with a grin). While I have heard of the concept of a Deity coming into existence through worship, I have not given it much consideration at this point as I am still dealing with Deities that have historical credit. My biggest question about this type of deity is: If I (meaning man) created the deity, would that not make me more powerful than the deity I created? And as such, would that not make that deity less able to help me with my needs?

Not at all. Humanity is very good at creating constructs and entities that are more 'powerful' than us. Almost everything that we create has a purpose, and that purpose is generally to fulfill a need that we are unable to fulfill on our own, or enhance a need beyond what we are capable of on our own. Thus cars and cranes and dissociative identity disorder.

If a single human mind can create a schism so powerful that our identity splinters into multiple parts in order to protect a single part; or think up a contraption that can lift incredibly heavy weights to incredible heights; then why can't the collective human mind create an entity that has more 'power' to influence the energetic vibrations of a weather pattern or the human heart?

Servitors can be consciously created to take sustenance from a particular energy source, and to grow and evolve over time into something more powerful than it was when created. Think what an egregore created by millions of people over thousands of years could do? Fed by the belief and worship of all those people... enhanced by the enormous amount of energy poured into it... given an identity, a name, a mythology... evolved over thousands of years until it exists in our stories and mythology books and highschool history classes. I think that could definitely be more 'powerful' than any given human being.

But then, 'power' is both subjective and relative.

[Optimistic discord]

Re: How many Deities are there?

Egregores... Ah! Another fork in my path that looks like it could be a little rough. Actually, having Mt. Everest on my path could be a little rough... this could be difficult (he says with a grin). While I have heard of the concept of a Deity coming into existence through worship, I have not given it much consideration at this point as I am still dealing with Deities that have historical credit. My biggest question about this type of deity is: If I (meaning man) created the deity, would that not make me more powerful than the deity I created? And as such, would that not make that deity less able to help me with my needs?

It is a logical fallacy that we cannot create something better/stronger than ourselves.
Our "being" is made up of several traits, some of them are their own entities capable of independent action and can out live us when we die and go on to become truly great.
Ultimately there is little that differentiates an egregore from any other spirit, some of the aesir and jotunn are very much just ideals made manifest.

Regardless if there is one, or more than one Deity, I can definitely say that I believe that some of the deities/names that exist are simply a different name given to the same deity. Much the way that different cultures have different words to say "Hello", or different languages have different words, or names, for a chair. Given that a Goddess or God being what they are, would have to be able to make Themselves know in any part of the world, and that each culture would have no idea what another culture had named this Deity, there must be a few cases of the same Deity being called different names in different cultures. That aside, I do see that Deities, like humans, can be completely different yet do the exact same thing, or things. For example, you and I are different, yet we both are typing on a keyboard and conversing to each other. We are different, yet we are dong the same thing. I agree, doing the same job does not make them the same deity. There are millions of cab drivers, but each driver is an individual.

Despite their power I dont attribute a great "reach" to many spirits out there.Otherwise I would expect a lot more conflict between spirits over territory and followers (sure a number of faiths have histories of ancient wars between gods, but they are usually limited to only several "tribes" of god). There is a habit for deities to assume disguise as mortals when "going abroad", possibly to avoid just such a conflict.

I am mistrustful of the motives of a lot of our ancestors when it comes to linking deities who are "similar" more often or not I believe it is done to weaken/destroy worship of one of those deities in favor of the other, and in some cases creating an egregore that better suits those peoples desires, thus abandoning both original deities.

[Sonku]

Re: How many Deities are there?

Different beliefs and culture is the only problem we have but every where you go you will find deities doing the same thing though different names and ways of believing in it.
There is only one God who is above all gods at least that is one thing you always find in common.

[wildcat]

Re: How many Deities are there?

I am a hard polytheist, and believe the gods are distinct, and not facets of one ultimate god. The Sun God and Earth Goddess are two different forces of nature. Every force in the universe, has it's own unique characteristics and domains of control. They interact with each other frequently, to produce reactions and products that form the mechanisms that occur in the universe, and more intimately down here on earth. When people refer to the soft polytheistic stance, of all gods being facets of the one god. I use different terminology when ti comes to that, to illustrate my beliefs better. What they refer to as the "one god" with all the facets, I simply refer to as The Universe. All forces of nature/the gods are confined within the ultimate universe. But since I define gods by their physical aspects and forces, I call the nature gods as gods, and the all-encompassing as The Universe as a whole. I'm still a hard polytheist however, since I don't consider The Universe as one big god, so I don't fall into the category of believing all gods are facets of one god.

I don't have a good answer for the pantheons, since I don't follow one. But I view the gods in the pantheons as distinct, and not just different representations of the same god. Since although you'll find similarities between two gods from different pantheons, there are also distinct differences between them as well, which to me would represent that it is a different deity. I think there can be multiple deities that express the same domain. Meaning, a sun god in one pantheon, and a sun god in another pantheon are not the same simply because they rule in the same domain, they might still have vastly different personalities and characteristics than the other. So the other question "how many deities are there?" I'd answer "many beyond count". Gods can be impersonal, personal, specific to certain aspects of life, and many gods that might be nameless living amongst our natural world. To be safe, I wouldn't approach two deities from different pantheons as though they were the same, I'd go the safer route and assume they are different entities, I wouldn't want to offend a personalized god by assuming they are the same as the other but just a different name! For example, I'm sure even identical twins would hate being seen as the same person, they appear the same, but they are distinct in character. I'd think it the same for gods that appear similar as well.

[Auseklis]

Re: How many Deities are there?

Within the path my family follows and I was raised, there are over 2000 deities and we learn about their stories via Dainas (songs/poetry). To be honest, I know a fair amount of knowledge about a handful of them and lesser knowledge on the others, as do most Dievturi pagans. I tend to focus just on the one I was drawn too who is called Auseklis. I admire people who spend most of their waking hours learning about deities around the world as it must be fascinating reading.