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    Runes

    The Elder Futhark has become very common in pagan circles. However, I've found that very few people hold to the traditional methods of creating runes. For example, wood and bone have been replaced by beans and seeds. Not only have the materials changed but so too has the tradition of blooding runes. A lot of Neo-Pagans think blood is taboo because it causes pain etc so they just ignore it. Others are just completely ignorant of the tradition and its origins in the Eddas. Another thing I've seen is the belief that the runes can't be used to harm someone. Anyone who knows anything about Germanic paganism knows that's a lie. Nidstangs and other curse poles are proof to the contrary. So what do you all think?

    #2
    Re: Runes

    I use accent beads because a) they are easy to work on with my dremel b) they are easily accessible, where fruit tree wood and boon is not for me and c) they appeal to my inner magpie.

    If a set is for my use alone, I DO blood them, mixing the blood in with the paint.

    Myself, I'm not a reconstructionist. I'm a modern constructionist. Using what works in a modern setting is my thing. But it's MY thing, not necessarily anyone else's and I'm okay with that.
    "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Runes

      Not everyone has researched the origin of the Runes thoroughly to know everything all at once, and not everyone upon learning the stories will choose to adhere to them. People will follow their own ways, it's an impossibility to try to control the thoughts and behaviors of other people.

      I know several people who began using the runes before they knew where they came from because they were drawn to them; it wasn't until several years down the line when they started to actually research the stories and start to progress their understanding. Everything is a process.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Runes

        A perusal of three different translations (Bellows, Thorpe and Chisholm... my Hollander and Larrington are packed away somewhere) of the pertinent stanza of the Havamal shows one referral to blood (note: the most recent translation), one uses the word tint, and one seems to ignore it entirely (as an aside, all three are available at www.heathengods.com as free legal downloads). I've also seen this interpreted as 'stain' and as 'redden.' Apparently, there is little consensus among the scholars. I seem to recall a demo-type video by the late Sveinbjorn of the Icelandic Asatruarfelig (sp?) where he used saliva on runes (from the stained school, it would seem).

        As to materials, we have a few examples of wood, horn, bone, walrus ivory, sword blades and hilts, and helmets carved with runes, but obviously that simply means we don't have examples of any other materials not recorded in a Saga, or archaeologically unearthed. We can't say absolutely that shells, beans, seeds, beads, etc were NOT used. Other than an inference by Tacitus (who doesn't say what was carved on slips of wood from a fruit-bearing tree), there is no evidence of rune-casting (as we understand the term today) for divination. The Sagas do cite bird's flight patterns, cloud patterns (or maybe weather patterns), and stallion fights as divination tools.

        All that said, our Ancestors were resourceful and adaptive. In my opinion, if polymer clay had been available to them, someone would have carved runes in it.

        I have made rune sets in many types of wood, in bone, horn, shell, polymer clay and the glass pebbles that are used in fish bowls. In a pinch, I've made a set cut from pasteboard squares. They all worked equally well. I stained my own birch runes, but would never stain runes made for someone else (well... unless I nick myself... ).
        I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

        Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
        Clan of my Clan
        Kin of my Kin
        Blood of my Blood



        For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
        And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Runes

          My runes are hematite. Because its beautiful and sings to me. I didn't make them, I bought them, but neither me nor my runes care. I haven't blooded them, because it hasn't been necessary. perhaps one day.
          ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

          RIP

          I have never been across the way
          Seen the desert and the birds
          You cut your hair short
          Like a shush to an insult
          The world had been yelling
          Since the day you were born
          Revolting with anger
          While it smiled like it was cute
          That everything was shit.

          - J. Wylder

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Runes

            I'm gonna quote Rick first, because he said something that is always the first thing I bring up when people start talking about the historical use of the runes...

            Originally posted by Rick View Post
            Other than an inference by Tacitus (who doesn't say what was carved on slips of wood from a fruit-bearing tree), there is no evidence of rune-casting (as we understand the term today) for divination. The Sagas do cite bird's flight patterns, cloud patterns (or maybe weather patterns), and stallion fights as divination tools.
            I agree with pretty much everything that Rick said in his post, but I feel that this quote is really the crux of the issue. The only thing that we know for sure about the historical use of the runes is that they were an alphabet that was carved on stones and jewelry. There is no evidence of them being used in divination, and there isn't even anything 100% equivocal that proves they were used as a magickal alphabet. Most of what we know about the runes today is modern construction, UPG and educated guesswork.

            Having said that... I am not for one second suggesting that we should not use the runes for magick or divination. I do it all the time... and very successfully. I just want to bring a bit of perspective the the 'historical usage' debate. I've heard all sorts of rules and regulations about the use of the runes over the years... and the reality is that most of it has no historical basis at all.

            Obviously the runespirits are working with people today. So regardless of what may or may not have happened thousands of years ago, things are happening today that seem to be pretty valid.

            Originally posted by Claude View Post
            The Elder Futhark has become very common in pagan circles. However, I've found that very few people hold to the traditional methods of creating runes. For example, wood and bone have been replaced by beans and seeds.
            Where does this traditional method come from? Tacitus tells us that some sort of signs were carved onto slips of wood from a fruit bearing tree, jumbled up, thrown down, and then three were selected in turn and read. Tacitus is fairly specific about all this, but does not explicitly state that it is the runes that we're talking about. And quite aside from that, people get very caught up in the whole 'fruit bearing tree' aspect and completely forget the divination method quoted. If we assume that Tacitus was talking about the runes then we can assume that the runes were not cast and read as a whole, and they certainly weren't placed down in neat little layouts. Tacitus' diviners cast them all down then selected three slips of wood.

            The Runatal section of the Havamal has a lovely little verse that has been translated a dozen different ways, as Rick pointed out. And it says nothing about materials.

            Personally, I am in the process of making a rune set out of semi-precious stones. Each stone was chosen intuitively in consultation with the runespirit it will be the vessel for. This is very much a non-traditional method, but it seems to be working just fine.

            Originally posted by Claude View Post
            Not only have the materials changed but so too has the tradition of blooding runes. A lot of Neo-Pagans think blood is taboo because it causes pain etc so they just ignore it. Others are just completely ignorant of the tradition and its origins in the Eddas.
            I actually do blood my runes, not just during construction but on a regular basis and before each casting. To me they are... bloodthirsty. I am not one of those people who finds blood taboo... it's a central part of my practice and I use blood and blood offerings for a number of different things. The runes seem to be working for a number of people without blooding though.

            Originally posted by Claude View Post
            Another thing I've seen is the belief that the runes can't be used to harm someone. Anyone who knows anything about Germanic paganism knows that's a lie. Nidstangs and other curse poles are proof to the contrary. So what do you all think?
            I agree... there's a whole range of terms related to the runes that would suggest uses other that benevolent. And if we equate the 'spells' in the Havamal with runes then obviously harm can be worked. As far as I know, Nidhstangs were not specifically runic, but they do point towards an obvious curse practice. Personally, I find the runespirits are as capable of harm as they are help, and I have used them for such in the past. A thurisaz-tiwaz bindrune made for a very lovely little harmful dart in the backsides of the people who robbed our house earlier in the year.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Runes

              And Tacitus does not even mention runes, but uses the Latin word for signs instead.

              One thing I feel is fun to add here though is that there was actually a charm that was supposed to plague the victim’s belly with ‘crapulence and wind’ and ‘great flatulence’ so that ‘farting may never stop, neither by day nor by night.’

              There are apparently fart runes in the Icelandic Galdrabok, and at Bergen in Norway a medieval rune stick was found with runic fart charm on it. You’ll love the translation for that one, it says:

              Sit down and interpret the runes; rise up and fart!

              www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Runes

                Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                And Tacitus does not even mention runes, but uses the Latin word for signs instead.

                One thing I feel is fun to add here though is that there was actually a charm that was supposed to plague the victim’s belly with ‘crapulence and wind’ and ‘great flatulence’ so that ‘farting may never stop, neither by day nor by night.’

                There are apparently fart runes in the Icelandic Galdrabok, and at Bergen in Norway a medieval rune stick was found with runic fart charm on it. You’ll love the translation for that one, it says:

                Sit down and interpret the runes; rise up and fart!

                OMG lmfao

                That's brilliant.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Runes

                  Understand that I ask these questions knowing only two things about runes: 1. Everyone at the local gathering spot is all aflutter about them. 2. I know how to spell "rune". Other than that, I know nothing. I ask in order to learn.

                  Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                  ... The only thing that we know for sure about the historical use of the runes is that they were an alphabet that was carved on stones and jewelry. There is no evidence of them being used in divination, and there isn't even anything 100% equivocal that proves they were used as a magickal alphabet...
                  The way this reads, I get the impression that runes were not used in ancient times? If that is the case, why do I recall hearing about them being used in "the days of old" and such? I'm sure I'm missing something here, just not sure what it is.

                  Obviously the runespirits are working with people today. So regardless of what may or may not have happened thousands of years ago, things are happening today that seem to be pretty valid.
                  If what I understand is correct, and runes were not used in ancient times: did the runespirits exist back then but were not heard of because no one call upon them? Or did they come into being, kind of like an egregore, when the need for them arose?

                  Again, I'm sure that there is a lot that I'm not understanding, so please forgive me if I sound ignorant (because I am).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Runes

                    Originally posted by Tarn View Post
                    Understand that I ask these questions knowing only two things about runes: 1. Everyone at the local gathering spot is all aflutter about them. 2. I know how to spell "rune". Other than that, I know nothing. I ask in order to learn.



                    The way this reads, I get the impression that runes were not used in ancient times? If that is the case, why do I recall hearing about them being used in "the days of old" and such? I'm sure I'm missing something here, just not sure what it is.



                    If what I understand is correct, and runes were not used in ancient times: did the runespirits exist back then but were not heard of because no one call upon them? Or did they come into being, kind of like an egregore, when the need for them arose?

                    Again, I'm sure that there is a lot that I'm not understanding, so please forgive me if I sound ignorant (because I am).
                    Runes were indeed used in ancient times. For a brief history of runes, go here: http://www.paganforum.com/showthread...story-of-Runes

                    What Rae'ya and I are saying is that there is no definitive historical evidence that runes were used for divination. There is definitive historical evidence that runes were used for magic, as related throughout various of the Sagas and in books like the Galdrabok.
                    I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

                    Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
                    Clan of my Clan
                    Kin of my Kin
                    Blood of my Blood



                    For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                    And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Runes

                      Originally posted by Rick View Post
                      Runes were indeed used in ancient times. For a brief history of runes, go here: http://www.paganforum.com/showthread...story-of-Runes

                      What Rae'ya and I are saying is that there is no definitive historical evidence that runes were used for divination. There is definitive historical evidence that runes were used for magic, as related throughout various of the Sagas and in books like the Galdrabok.
                      Okay, I'm caught up now. And thanks for the link.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Runes

                        Originally posted by Tarn View Post
                        The way this reads, I get the impression that runes were not used in ancient times? If that is the case, why do I recall hearing about them being used in "the days of old" and such? I'm sure I'm missing something here, just not sure what it is.
                        Rick answered this one for me (thanks, Rick)... and I don't have anything else to add to his response.

                        Originally posted by Tarn View Post
                        If what I understand is correct, and runes were not used in ancient times: did the runespirits exist back then but were not heard of because no one call upon them? Or did they come into being, kind of like an egregore...
                        You misunderstood me initially, which changes the context of this question, but I'll answer it anyway, because I do have some slightly unconventional beliefs about the runes. I believe the runespirits existed in Ginnungagap long before we came along. Then Othinn bought them into the Nine Worlds and from there they started interacting with humans. Not everyone experiences the runes as spirits... but as such I think they are completely independant of humans. I also don't believe they are limited to human perception or historical usage. So to a certain extent I actually think that it's largely irrelevant what was or wasn't done historically.

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