Questions for Polytheists

[LuciaStar]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

1. What is the nature of your polytheistic belief? Do you believe in completely separate deities, or that all of them are facets of the same one, et cetera?

The "nature" of my polytheistic belief is kinda hard to define. I tend to view gods as explanations for natural phenomenon, while at the same time holding the belief that gods are distinct, separate beings. Is that confusing at all?

2. Did you have a personal spiritual experience that brought you to this belief? How powerful was it to you?

No, not really. I kind of came to this belief because a) monotheism made no sense to me. I cannot comprehend how God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same at all. b) mythology made me wonder if gods are actually explanation for natural phenomenon or things we could not explain, as it seems likely with some myths I have read.

3. Do you consider yourself scientific at all? What conclusions did your experience bring you to? Do you believe that the gods of different peoples are the same as each other in reality, or that they were all just written down? Again, I see the power of experience and I am not questioning anyone's faith. This question may be the most controversial.

I wouldn't say scientific, more rational? It's definitely not something I can turn off! As I said earlier, reading mythology kind of just made me sit down and ponder on whether or not gods are explanation of natural phenomenons, but due to experiences with some gods, I cannot at all be non-theistic since experience contradicts that. So, I end up viewing gods are real and that not all of them are man-made but some could be. Who knows?

4. Do you worship a specific god / goddess, or more than one? Sorry if my terminology is wrong! I want to know more about these practices and beliefs.

More than one! I worship both Loki and Odin. It's, uh, interesting to say the least.

5. What do you think of people who are monotheistic?

I'm gonna try to break this up in parts, haha. Anyways: What do I think of them? It's their choice. Monotheism doesn't make sense to me at all but if it does to someone else, go for it!

What do you believe are the implications of polytheism? What I mean is, do you believe that the god / goddess you worship is leading you on a spiritual path and others are on a similar path in their religion? (This question depends on the answer to #4.)

To me? Things like God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, which may look superficial on the surface but all three of them have a different role, don't they? God is supposedly the Father, Jesus is well known as a Savior and the Holy Spirit are two different things. A creator, and something that inspires Christians and allowing them to interpret the Bible. That's oversimplifying things but to me, it kind of looks like an implication of polytheism and not monotheism but maybe it's because I just cannot see things as "this god is one in the same". I imagine if I was a soft polytheist, I would be able to understand somehow, but I'm not. I'm more hard than soft.

And for the second part of the question: No, I don't. I don't see the connection between monotheism and my gods or their hand in these things so I can't see myself believing that it would lead all of us on a similar path.

That sounded harsher than I intended. Hah, sorry.

[alternatingSelves]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

That's wonderful! Have you had any personal spiritual experiences relating to this relationship, or spells etc.? As you can tell, this kind of thing is what really interests me. I hope I don't sound like I am asking the same question over and over. I just see power in personal experience.

I've only found her recently, but it began when I started looking into possible dieties to worship. I was interested in the Greek pantheon, but was mainly looking for a God with whom I felt a connection. silly enough, I didn't actually think of Athena for a while, despite her being my favourite Goddess in Greek mythology. I tend to be pretty slow about things like that. but when I did wonder about her and begin to do some research, I noticed that she aligned with me in a lot of ways. she's one of the few Gods associated with the city as opposed to the country (I'm very much a city person), one of her animals is a tiger (my spirit guide is a tiger), a lot of her colours had personal significance to me, etc. most importantly, she represented wisdom (which my friends always told me I had a lot of) and was a goddess of war (I have been striving to find a way to gain courage and strength). I believed that she would be able to help me learn to understand myself, and the courage to fight when I have to. but I knew it wasn't a one-sided thing, and I had to be accepted by her. so I began to make offerings. I started with a general offering to a number of Gods in her pantheon, and then the next day, made one specifically to her. after a few days of giving her wine and fire, I went to give her another offering. I was sitting outside and saw that it was cloudy out. I said to myself that I wished the clouds would clear so I could see the stars. I then made my offering to Athena. by the time I was done, the clouds were gone. all of them. I had not been looking away long enough for them to have blown away. the sky stayed clear for the next hour. it had been clouded all day and just suddenly, clear. I took this as a sign she was listening.

[Cobra]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

. . . in terms of actual belief (if you were to ask me what I think the nature of the gods were) I tend to be pantheistic--I think there is one, single, solitary underlying fabric to the universe, and everything is cut from it, and that the universe itself is the ultimate Divine, from which smaller expressions of divinity originate. Otherwise, I'm agnostic as to the nature and existence of individual and distinct deities...whether they are independently acting or parts of a whole or anthropomorphic symbols or not or if they are just imaginary friends...and the gods I worship don't care how I believe in them or not, so, I don't worry too much about it.

Hmm... I like your viewpoint on this quite a bit. I'm not sure how similar my own view is, but this makes a lot of sense to me. Especially considering that it this universal fabric you speak of is a real scientific possibility! I believe I have learned something from this.

EDIT: Not sure how my beliefs about the afterlife fit in with that though. I do believe in the individual soul. I don't think my views on life after could change much. How do you see it?

Erm...I have a degree in biology and work as an industrial hygienist, so yes...I consider myself pretty scientific. And I approach my beliefs as scientifically as possible (considering they are subjective and abstract), in terms of personal verifiability and well...plain old pragmatism.

I try to do this as well.

I think the practical implication of polytheist is pluralism. Period. I think that monotheism is mostly incompatible with pluralism, not necessarily because of monotheist itself, but because of human nature. I don't believe that the deities I worship (or that anyone worships) go out of their way to find followers, but rather that people find the gods (or not) in the way that they are best equipped to experience them.

Would you agree, then, that some people are best equipped to experience religion / spirituality under monotheistic beliefs?

-snip-

Well, you have to consider that Christianity is not the only monotheistic belief system at all! I did not like Christianity because of its depictions of the one God as having human emotions / attributes. I think you will find that many monotheists, such as myself, differ drastically from Christians.

-snip-

If I had been you, I would have also certainly taken such a profound event as significant.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

.. First of all, I am sorry you had to go through that. I see what you mean about the nature of actions and their consequences. I think the idea about how morality and nature relate depends on whether you think nature has a divine drive to it. If it does, then we could definitely say that in the grand scheme of things, good and evil are not relevant. However, for someone who does not believe that nature is driven by any divinity, but drives itself through natural processes, then the connection might not be so finite. The basic conclusion would be that nature does not have a soul / conscious decision, but we do. Again, I do believe in the positive energy / aura of a soul as I said and how it relates to life after.

For me I think the fact I view many things through an animist perspective allows me to view nature differently. As such I see and believe that each each individual creature has a spirit that inhabits it. Yet I also acknowledge that many creature's are not only influenced by their individual spirit but also by a super spirit or soul. So consider that every deer has an individual spirit / soul that fills it yet they all are also an aspect of the larger super spirit / soul that guides all Cervidae family members. So the loss of an individual or group might influence the local area but the larger influence is affected by the super spirit / soul that oversee's the entire Cervidae family. Overseeing all matters pertaining to its global presence. So you have the two legs, four legs, winged ones, finned ones, the standing ones and smaller green ones, the stone peoples, etc that make up the world spirit / soul that oversee's life in its entirety upon the planet.

As such notions of good, evil, correct or incorrect, negative and positive, etc loose much of their human perspective of understanding and categorizing. So nature has a sense of divinity or guidance acting upon it at various levels. Even to the perspective that the total removal of a species might be enacted due to it being the best action to support the larger intent or super spirit / soul. We can acknowledge that life upon this planet has been nearly erased a number of times or completely erased with regards to particular species or sub-species. Is it a divine or semi-divine action at work deciding which will survive and which will perish? Who can say for sure other than we know something guides it via evolution and destruction.

Now, in regards to good actions resulting in bad things and vice versa. I suppose this is a problem if you happen to believe in destiny. I'm sorry if I'm narrowing big problems down to little ones; to me, it just seems relevant. The fact that Hitler survived could be a point against certain morality. Something "bad" would have to happen for something else to happen and so on. Really, I think that there is a balance between good and evil, just as one contrasts happiness and sadness. Yes, this is another philosophical topic: would "good" exist without "evil" to compare it against? What's for certain is that we perceive both as happening. As far as your "energy" goes as I mentioned, I think it depends on your intentions for actions. I'm not quite sure I'm making sense here, so if I'm not, please help me out.

I tend to think destiny is a many faceted application. In some capacities I think it is hard coded with regard to what will happen and when. In other capacities I tend to think it more logical and perhaps a progressive For / Next loop or If / Then loop of action and reaction. If a species outgrows its habitat it is destined to either move, adapt or die out. Those are determined routes of change. Yet it is not forgone as to what will happen with each possibility that maybe encountered as each situation unfolds. Moving, adapting does not ensure that they will not die out anyway yet it could ensure they change in size, change in how they relate to their environment, etc.

As for myself, I found it extremely difficult to look at the universe and then conclude there was no reason for it. I simply could not bring myself to such a conclusion. I used to be Deist until I discovered my Neopagan tendencies, so I still believe that the ultimate power is distant, transcends human concepts, and does not affect daily live. However, I think I might believe in spirits of nature such as plants, Earth, and Moon. I don't really know for sure yet... I am still exploring those ideas, which is one of the reasons I am here.

That for me is the Great Unknowable.

[LuciaStar]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Well, you have to consider that Christianity is not the only monotheistic belief system at all! I did not like Christianity because of its depictions of the one God as having human emotions / attributes. I think you will find that many monotheists, such as myself, differ drastically from Christians.

This is true. I have studied a little on Judaism and Islam before and loved what I had learned. I just grew up with Christianity around me and is generally what I'm exposed to a lot, haha. I'm pretty open in learning more!

[Tarn]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

What reason would there be for having ONLY one? Look around at any species. None is composed of only one member. Why should gods be any different?

Well said!

I look to nature (mostly) for answers. And that is what you've just pointed out. I've been struggling with the "One, or more" question since I've come onto the pagan portion of my path. I had accepted the idea of more than one deity, but had not really embraced it. Your example has settled a lot of my doubts. Thank you.

[Cobra]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

This is true. I have studied a little on Judaism and Islam before and loved what I had learned. I just grew up with Christianity around me and is generally what I'm exposed to a lot, haha. I'm pretty open in learning more!

Yeah, the idea of the Trinity is unique to Christianity.

Monotheism isn't even unique to Abrahamic religions. You'll find plenty of classifications of monotheists.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Well, as I mentioned before, I'm a rather scientific person, so I always am interested in looking into the reason for things. For me it is very tough to believe in something that is impossible for me to experience or perceive in at least a small way.

Why? Do you think humans have it all figured out? Besides that being a terribly egotistical sentiment, it's also depressing. After all, if we've got it all figure out, there is nothing more to learn. Human understanding is very limited by it's nature. And while that is no reason not to try to understand, it's beyond ridiculous to expect all things to fit within the scope of that understanding. Nor do those things cease to exist because we lack understanding of them.

Also I think you definition of scientific is a bit suspect. Science about understand the process, not looking for reasons. Also real science doesn't go looking for evidence to fit the hypothesis. The hypothesis fits the evidence or needs to be redrawn to do so.

- - - Updated - - -

Your example has settled a lot of my doubts. Thank you.

You're welcome. But please don't stop with anything I or anyone else says.

[Cobra]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Why? Do you think humans have it all figured out? Besides that being a terribly egotistical sentiment, it's also depressing. After all, if we've got it all figure out, there is nothing more to learn. Human understanding is very limited by it's nature. And while that is no reason not to try to understand, it's beyond ridiculous to expect all things to fit within the scope of that understanding. Nor do those things cease to exist because we lack understanding of them.

I apologize if it seems like I said that, because that is entirely not what I meant. I mean that I will not stop on my spiritual path searching for answers. I don't think it's terribly important that I find them all. I don't even think that's possible. What I really like to do is learn.

Also I think you definition of scientific is a bit suspect. Science about understand the process, not looking for reasons. Also real science doesn't go looking for evidence to fit the hypothesis. The hypothesis fits the evidence or needs to be redrawn to do so.

Well, errm... the first steps in the scientific method are to question something and then formulate your hypothesis. You then do the research and weigh the evidence against other evidence. You may do experiments / research yourself or examine your hypothesis using others' verified research. Then, you come to a conclusion. The hypothesis does need to be redrawn if it does not fit the evidence... but you can certainly formulate the hypothesis as one of the first steps. Otherwise, what's my motivation for finding the evidence? If I just happened upon it, I need to create a question and a hypothesis and then examine the evidence or I need to examine that evidence with someone else's hypothesis, provided there is one. Basically, hypothesis is one of the first steps of the scientific method.

When I talk about understanding the reason for something in a spiritual context, I mean it as an "I want to try to the best of my ability to examine the universe" type thing. In science, understanding the reason behind things is crucial to understanding the process! If I wanted to understand the water cycle, I would need to know the reason behind why it rains.

Hopefully I interpreted your post the way you intended me to. Please let me know if I didn't.

[Heka]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Functionally speaking, I worship as if I were a polytheist--I worship distinct and individual gods in a variety of ways that include making offerings, devotions, etc.

But in terms of actual belief (if you were to ask me what I think the nature of the gods were) I tend to be pantheistic--I think there is one, single, solitary underlying fabric to the universe, and everything is cut from it, and that the universe itself is the ultimate Divine, from which smaller expressions of divinity originate. Otherwise, I'm agnostic as to the nature and existence of individual and distinct deities...whether they are independently acting or parts of a whole or anthropomorphic symbols or not or if they are just imaginary friends...and the gods I worship don't care how I believe in them or not, so, I don't worry too much about it.
.

Nicely said Thal. I think this pretty well explains my system too. Thanks for the words!

[thalassa]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Not sure how my beliefs about the afterlife fit in with that though. I do believe in the individual soul. I don't think my views on life after could change much. How do you see it?

I do believe that life has "spirit", if you will, and that "spirit" is part of the Universe's small expressions of divinity. I'm also a bit of a hylozoist, in that I believe that most things are in some sense "alive" (though not biologically, of course), or have the capacity to be "alive". I believe that what we call the "soul" is our consciousness (there's another thread, the one about whether or not the soul can be split, where I explain my opinion on the matter), and whether or not it carries on after bodily death in any material way, is ultimately unknowable...although, I tend to think not. I would speculate that parts of us are "recycled" (energy and matter and all that), but that we do not continue as a whole. I think that what ultimately matters is how we live.

Would you agree, then, that some people are best equipped to experience religion / spirituality under monotheistic beliefs?

Yes, I would.

[LuciaStar]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Yeah, the idea of the Trinity is unique to Christianity.

Monotheism isn't even unique to Abrahamic religions. You'll find plenty of classifications of monotheists.

Yes, I can see that but it does still raise questions that I know many have asked: Why only one? Why can't there be more? Sure, gods can't cover everything and do more than what it says on their resume, but still, why just one god? I guess my train of thought is more or less on the same lines as Vigdisdotter so, ehe.

[wildcat]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Thought I'd throw in my answers to the questions...

1. What is the nature of your polytheistic belief? Do you believe in completely separate deities, or that all of them are facets of the same one, et cetera?

I do believe the deities are separate, in that sense I am a hard polytheist. But they don't live in a vacuum, I believe the gods interact with one another naturally. My god-concepts are gods of nature, so I actually don't believe my gods are "supernatural", and most I believe are most likely impersonal (sun god, earth goddess, ocean goddess etc). Their consciousness simply isn't on the same wavelength as ours. Though I do think many lesser gods have clued into our consciousness, ones that are closely intertwined with the earth, and that's what people engage with. The gods are connected intimately with their domain, they aren't just free-floating invisible entities, the sun god is the sun. They aren't all facets of the same god, but they are all products of the Universe. But just as you and me are both of the Universe, we are obviously distinct beings. My beliefs are unique to myself, as I formed them based on intuition and observation, I'm not part of any path. But when I look at the Universe, I see many different forces, distinct, yet working together. Therefore, when I see these different forces, I'm seeing different gods. Polytheism just makes sense to me.

2. Did you have a personal spiritual experience that brought you to this belief? How powerful was it to you? I do not want anyone to share these stories if they do not want to.

I first became a polytheist when I believe I was approached by one of the gods. It is a very special experience, so I don't want to elaborate, but it definitely was one of a kind, and moved me towards exploring my own unique spirituality. I was approached by the goddess of the wild, which I believe is one of the many lesser gods that can commune with us (lesser not meaning not powerful, but meaning not as great, unapproachable and impersonal as the ocean goddess for example, but rather evolved closely with living beings). This goddess I identified as Artemis, and still do, although I found her to be much deeper and complex with different manifestations than the Greek descriptions, so I don't always want to limit Her to that name. Ever since I've had a close relationship with Her.

3. Do you consider yourself scientific at all? What conclusions did your experience bring you to? Do you believe that the gods of different peoples are the same as each other in reality, or that they were all just written down? Again, I see the power of experience and I am not questioning anyone's faith. This question may be the most controversial.

I do believe I'm scientific and I spend a lot of time reading about evolution and the discoveries of space. The discoveries of science tends to enhance my spirituality, as the natural forces that we can see and measure, are my gods/forces interacting with one another. Through my observations, I came to conclusions about how the gods interact. For example, I see the Sun God and Ocean Goddess as our creator gods, since it is their forces that provided the ability to create life. To me, they are impersonal gods, they didn't "do it" on purpose, but rather, life arising is simply a product of their natural interactions. I actually believe that earth-connected gods evolved on earth as life evolved (since, I believe my gods are natural forces). So, in short, learning about science is crucial for me to understand the gods. I think some people think religious people are unscientific because they rely on the supernatural, but for me, my gods aren't supernatural, so there isn't any reason for me to be unscientific. The only leap I'm taking is when I believe that the forces of nature have their own sense of spirit (thus, making them gods). But what I consider the gods is right before my eyes.

As for the gods of different people, I believe the worship of gods has probably sometimes crossed over and influenced other cultures. Such as how similar the Greek and Roman gods are, and the blending that happened between Greek and Egyptian gods. But since I believe the gods are forces of nature, I think people have connected with nature in their own way, and have had the gods be revealed to them separately. I can't know if one god is really the same god as another. But for me personally, if a god is written down to have different characteristics than another, I would worship them and approach them as a distinct deity. Just because two gods from different cultures are associated with war or the sun for example, doesn't mean they are the same entity. The gods are numerous, I wouldn't want to offend a god by presuming they are all the same. I believe more than one god can be connected to a domain.

4. Do you worship a specific god / goddess, or more than one? Sorry if my terminology is wrong! I want to know more about these practices and beliefs.

I technically worship all the gods, as they are inclusive in my reverence of them. All aspects of nature and the universe are due their reverence, both the gods with names, and the impersonal forces. But I do have a specific relationship with a certain goddess, the one I mentioned above. She is the one I am a follower of and devoted to.

5. What do you think of people who are monotheistic? What do you believe are the implications of polytheism? What I mean is, do you believe that the god / goddess you worship is leading you on a spiritual path and others are on a similar path in their religion?

I think monotheists and polytheists really do approach the world spiritually in a very different manner, but I think both are beneficial for the person in question. As long as it helps the person connect with the forces, it's okay with me. I simply cannot approach the world in a monotheistic manner, as I don't see one big force, but rather a Universe with many different forces that interact to form different products. And I've read many monotheists that simply cannot help but see it as all one being, we're just different. I think the main difference between myself and monotheists, is that I approach my gods very literally (they are the forces of nature directly), whereas monotheists tend to view God as supernatural and invisible, and at times, separate from the universe. They believe in a Creator of the universe that is separate from the universe. I believe the gods are directly here with us.

Everything I said is totally just me, with my own intuitive beliefs and observations. I'm not part of a path, so don't assume what I say is representative of pagans. Paganism is vast and different, and some pagans, like me, follow our own path.

[Cobra]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Yes, I can see that but it does still raise questions that I know many have asked: Why only one? Why can't there be more? Sure, gods can't cover everything and do more than what it says on their resume, but still, why just one god? I guess my train of thought is more or less on the same lines as Vigdisdotter so, ehe.

Well, I think wildcat summed it up well in her more recent post. You kind of have to look at it from the perspective of a monotheist. As we know it there is just one universe with a finite beginning, so ultimately why would there be more than one power behind it? I suppose this is the rationale of many monotheists. There is also the idea of the universal God that is in all things. It might even depend on how you define 'god', as for some there is one ultimate creator and many with more limited powers.

-snip-

Great post & thank you so much for sharing. I agree with you on a few fronts there. I, too, came to my beliefs from my own observations, but I decided to learn more about many traditions and see where my set of beliefs fit in the best, mostly because I really enjoy a community and discussing religious & spiritual ideas with others.

[Tarn]

Re: Questions for Polytheists

Yeah, the idea of the Trinity is unique to Christianity...

Depending on how you define "trinity", you may be overlooking at least one pagan Deity that is a triple Goddess, The Morrigan. She is said to have existed as three distinct and separate women: Macha, Badb, and Nemain (yes I know that there are other names that take the place of Nemain).

So if you are talking about the "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" trinity, I would agree with you. If you are talking about a Deity that is three separate beings, then Christianity is following pagan beliefs.

Just thought I'd give you something more to research. ::