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    My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated!

    Well, here I am. I feel so isolated from anyone of any sort of Pagan belief that I've been lead to these forums; and hopefully, I'll find a comfortable place here to talk about things for a very, very long time.
    If you can keep reading, I would really appreciate it; I'll try to make this brief.

    Allright, I'll spare you the details of my story and give you what I feel are the most important points of it. Excuse me if this sounds familiar; born and raised christian- very devout christian family. I always had my doubts and even as a child felt sort of outcast in church. It never interested me much and a lot of the questions I posed even in sunday school never got answered. As I grew up, I changed quite a bit. I started listening to metal; Amon Amarth, things like that, and don't bash me for this one but Cradle of Filth was my favorite band for a long time in middleschool/highschool. I guess this is an important point because the words to many songs captivated me, Gods and demons and mythological beings and strange places. Hymns of a sort. My mind was first drawn away from the dusty stories in those thin pages bound in leather on my bookshelf that I'd had drilled into me for years.

    Now! Further down the line. At sixteen my friend 'committed' to Satan. She didn't 'sell her soul' or anything but rather wrote up some sort of devotional letter, signed her name in blood and burned it in a ritual and I was MORTIFIED. I begged her not to, actually. I was still Christian no matter how doubtful. But then, slowly, I started reading further into it. In particular, a website where she got this entire idea, which some of you may know what I'm talking about but I'll be polite and not name it :: . It all made so much sense to me! It clicked! When I was a child I would go under my blankets, close my eyes and pretend I was traveling in my mind until I fell asleep- astral projecting! I would sit with my hands pretending I had some energy passing in between them, mimicking cartoons of course but I thought I could feel it for sure and this told me that yes, I was feeling it and this is one of the most basic beginner practices for energy work/magic. My sympathy for Satan even as a Christian was answered; he was actually a GOOD god, Enki, and all of his demons were various other Gods, And they had been demonized by those wishing for power long ago, and we were told magic, meditation, any sort of spiritual transcendence, was evil. I always wondered, if Satan is supposed to be the great deceiver, why are so many people Christian/Catholic?

    Anyway... I was stunned by this new religion, committed myself, and practiced secretly for awhile. I had many close calls. My incense set off a smoke alarm and my parents almost found my whole altar set up. My mom opened my diary just 'out of curiosity' and found instead the diary I asked her to buy me was a black book. That was bad. My life started going really well though and I felt this energy interlaced throughout it that wasn't there before, I felt fulfilled and answered and learned a great many things in a short amount of time. I had all the things I wanted. It was perfect.

    However, for whatever reason, my devotion/high on this tapered out over time. One thing is, I started feeling very afraid and paranoid all of the time. I don't know why. During rituals, I didn't find comfort; I was extremely scared!So, I just sort of stopped practicing. We lost our house and my previously dreamy teen relationship turned abusive and I got in a bit of trouble and had to be homeschooled and my mother started drinking again and wow, things went from pristine to shit. I don't attribute any of this to my new-found religion, but I do think it all distracted me from it a bit.

    Furthermore, at 17/18 I did mushrooms for the first time and, wow. I feel like these played a HUGE role in dealing the final blows to any of my religious beliefs. I felt certain that no small minded religion could describe what was really at work in the universe.
    And I had so many questions now! I read a very well done, thorough debunking of the entire website that sparked my beliefs.

    I can say now I do believe in astral projection, the benefits of meditation, magic. Those things for certain. I THINK I believe in some sort of higher power but what, I'm not sure. I will say the idea that all of the gods over countless cultures and religions are the same beings, just with different names and attributes depending on how the culture perceived/perceives him/her, made and still makes the most sense to me and I suppose in some ways this makes Satanism a good choice, because in modern times a bit more of a modernized religion that still carries in it some important old traditions is important. But I'm not sure if anything is there at all. Maybe my senses have been dulled due to lack of meditation- oh, you know what? Just now, I realized, when I started smoking pot a lot in high school, around 16, I started feeling less spiritual! Strange. I'm not a 'druggie'- i did smoke, and I did try shrooms a few times, but I justified them as natural. I stopped smoking a year ago, so let's not debate drugs in any context EXCEPT their effect on you in relation to your spirit.

    So here I am now, I have this gaping hole like so many humans that I want to fill with some kind of spiritual belief. I respect all religious beliefs but I know that Chistianity/Judaism/Islam aren't for me. I love aspects of Hinduism and Buddhism though I feel Buddhism is more philosophy than religion. And of course, I love Paganism Despite my great confusion, and the loneliness that comes with it. I believe all old pagan religions have some truth to them. I suppose I've posed a lot of questions here and many of which I'll have to answer myself; but, please tell me, what is your viewpoint as a Pagan- do you believe all Pagan beliefs have some truth? Also, what do you worship/follow? I have no idea what people do- do you believe in Greek Gods, Roman, Egyptian, Norse? What sort of tradition do you follow? And if you are feeling open enough; what is your story? What great experiences have you had spiritually? And do you belief there is a distinct difference between gods in different traditions?

    I hope this all makes sense. Sorry for droning on but I would SO appreciate any and all answers and will read your story no matter how lengthy. Thank you so much.

    seafoam

    #2
    Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

    I'm the worst person here to welcome you, probably, but welcome to the forums! I sat there awkwardly going "should I post? What if they're like "AHHH" and run away?" but that's me being silly. I'm Malflick, some Christian dude, my girlfriend is a Pagan (which I why I came here, to learn about her beliefs more) and I hang out here because the people are awesome.

    I can't really answer your questions, but this is a big accepting place and I'm sure you'll get many fine responses. You've had quite the journey to this forum, so I really hope you like it here.

    anyways, welcome again !
    hey look, I have a book! And look I have a second one too!

    Comment


      #3
      Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

      Thanks No worries, popping in to say hi is nice too! And thanks for the welcome.
      It's good to see someone so tolerant of other religions!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

        and don't bash me for this one but Cradle of Filth was my favorite band for a long time in middleschool/highschool
        Some of COF's music, especially their old stuff, is awesome, and they write amazingly vivid and poetic lyrics Cruelty and the Beast & Midian are two of my favorite albums.

        I wouldn't worry about the confusion and lack of focus, that's totally normal when you first dig into the spiritual stuff after being away from it for so long. Best thing I can recommend is to read and study anything that sounds interesting, and a lot of things that don't, take up some kind of practice, even if it's only basic meditation, and eventually things will settle down as you reach a greater understanding and you'll find your path. You can't force it, just have to let things progress naturally.

        what is your viewpoint as a Pagan- do you believe all Pagan beliefs have some truth?
        Well I probably don't qualify as pagan, at least in the common sense of the word, but yeah, I believe that most religions reflect at least some aspect of a greater truth.

        Also, what do you worship/follow? I have no idea what people do- do you believe in Greek Gods, Roman, Egyptian, Norse?
        I don't currently work with any specific deities, although I have once or twice in the past. I do pray occasionally to God, who I believe to be a kind of overarching universal consciousness which we are all projections of, with the various deities being personified aspects of that consciousness which represent different forces or fields of human endeavor.

        What sort of tradition do you follow?
        Hermeticism. Although I practice Qi Gong on top of that, and occasionally some other eastern practices.

        And if you are feeling open enough; what is your story?
        In short: raised nominally Christian, stopped going to Church at 10, discovered occult/new age section of the library by 11 or 12, read a lot, dabbled a little in Wicca and the like, but was too young/undisciplined to take it seriously enough to override the strong skeptical instinct my upbringing had instilled. Reading and dabbling continued until 17, when I went to Uni, started reading a lot of philosophy and became an avowed atheist. This continued for 5 or 6 years, when various life circumstances and a few odd experiences prompted a major shift in worldview. I ended up digging up some of my old books, reading them over again with a more mature mindset, and decided to give things another go. Started exploring and experimenting with different systems until I landed in my current one.

        What great experiences have you had spiritually?
        Probably the most intense and meaningful I'm comfortable talking about publicly was when I had a kundalini experience while meditating. You get used to talking about 'energy' in occult discussions, and I've experienced different energies and forces during my other practices, so I thought I had a good handle on them, but the kundalini energy was something else entirely. It felt like someone had connected one end of a power cord to some kind of cosmic wall socket and the other end to my perineum, bursting waves of cool pressure and burning tingling vibrations rolling out through the body and up as far as the side of my neck and head, body drenched in sweat, limbs twitching and shaking. I lost track of time completely for a while, and then it was over, leaving me with residue energy pulsing through my body and a feeling of calm, connected, peaceful bliss unlike anything I've ever felt (without drugs, that is). The sheer intensity of it struck me, there was nothing ambiguous or subjective about it at all.



        And do you belief there is a distinct difference between gods in different traditions?
        I'm not sure about this one. I've spent a lot of time pondering the question of deities, trying to figure out to what extent they have independent existences, as opposed to just being anthropomorphized identities we project onto universal forces, but I haven't managed to land on an answer.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

          Welcome to PF. I'm not going to specific answer your questions, since I'm a Pantheist and my opinions are a little different than your average pagan...but let me just say that what you've been through sounds mightily familiar to me. The search itself is an incredibly important part of the spiritual process. Don't let it stress you so much...just flow with it. It can be very exciting.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

            It's an interesting story. There are many cases here of "raised Christian" thing.
            I also had trouble with my religion at first. I highly recommend that you explore different paths, and choose the most suitable one.
            The common purpose is quite the same, but principles are different. Best of luck!
            "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



            Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

            Comment


              #7
              Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

              I wouldn't worry about the confusion and lack of focus, that's totally normal when you first dig into the spiritual stuff after being away from it for so long. Best thing I can recommend is to read and study anything that sounds interesting, and a lot of things that don't, take up some kind of practice, even if it's only basic meditation, and eventually things will settle down as you reach a greater understanding and you'll find your path. You can't force it, just have to let things progress naturally.
              Thank you, Aeran, that is really, REALLY excellent advice; ditto Rowanwood. And thank you for taking your time to respond to me; I really appreciate it. Don't worry if your beliefs are a bit off from what anyone else believes. I'm interested in all of it. So whatever you're comfortable sharing, I'd love to hear.
              It's an interesting story. There are many cases here of "raised Christian" thing.
              I also had trouble with my religion at first. I highly recommend that you explore different paths, and choose the most suitable one.
              The common purpose is quite the same, but principles are different. Best of luck!
              Thank you for reading.
              I think that a lot of people attribute it as rebellion? I don't think that's very accurate though, a lot of people are smarter than that.

              What would you say the purpose is? Being at peace with yourself and life?

              Comment


                #8
                Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                Yes, this is mostly the purpose. People may also study different paths and beliefs in order to rise spiritually, or just for their own knowledge.
                "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                  I think that you answered your own question about why in your original post. You feel like something is missing. That's the primary reason people flock to any religious practice.

                  I was born into a lapsed Catholic family, though I did plenty of church with the grandparents. For lack of other options, I was a freeform Christian, visiting a lot of different sect/brands. Due to a particularly nasty Lutheran clergyman, I left the church in one fateful moment and started a search for the right path for me. I played a lot with the occult and the paranormal, I danced with Taoism and Zen Buddhism. Then I tried Solitary Wicca and various other forms of neopaganism over the years. Eventually that morphed into my current state of soft polytheistic, hedge Pantheist witchcraft, which is a heck of a giant title but not nearly as complex as it sounds.

                  What it really comes down to is that there's nothing wrong with really throwing yourself into a practice. Its the only way you can really learn about it and see if it matches what you already know, even if you don't know you know it yet. It's normal to get a lot of satisfaction from something at first and then find that it falls short. That just means the search is still on.

                  It's a journey.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                    This is the day that I have been waiting for since I first put my foot to the pagan portion of my path! The day when I would see someone having as much trouble as I did when I first started. Oh happy Day!

                    Sorry, that's just my crude way of saying "You're not alone".

                    May I start off with some advice that has helped me quite a bit? As you begin to learn about the different Pagan beliefs, take time to un-learn Christianity. I'm going to burn in hell for that one. What I mean is that Christianity is such a dogmatic and enforced belief that you are told what to think; what to feel; how to act; how to not act; and what to believe. If you have a question, then the answer is told to you... period! And yes, I know, I had a lot of questions that never got answered either. Well they got answered by my being told not to worry about it, or that I was going to hell for even wondering (whatever I was wondering).

                    For example: I was shown a picture of "The Devil". Oddly, I was shown this very same picture in different congregations in many different locations, even in Scotland. Imagine my reaction when I first came to be a Pagan (which by the way I will go to hell for being), and I learned about the Pagan God. So I googled Him and guess what I saw... that same picture of "The Devil". Talk about being confused; I didn't know if I wanted to just mess my pants or pee down my leg.

                    I had to unlearn what I had been taught as a Christian. And, as I learn about Pagan ways, I am still unlearning my Christian ways. And one of those ways is that there is no one in the Pagan realm that is going to tell you "You have to do it this way". Nobody is going to drag you by the hand and shove the information down your throat. Which is, actually, quite nice. There are plenty of people who will tell you what they believe. But it is up to you to figure out what you believe.

                    Now let's make that a little more complicated. The number of Deities is mind boggling. And most of those Deities have a number of ways of being worshiped (to use familiar terms). So don't get discouraged when someone does not tell you which, exact, direction to take; and don't get upset with them either. It can be quite frustrating, believe me I know. Especially when every single, solitary, confounded pagan believes differently than the others. Sheesh!

                    Trust me, you are not alone in how you feel, or your confusion. Welcome to the club... we've got jackets!

                    Learn what you can and explore. You will probably find yourself following one tradition (think denomination) for a while; only to end up following a different one later. That's not unusual. I'm sure that in a couple of years you will look back and see how your beliefs have changed from what they are now. Learn about what interests you at the moment. Look at it like going into a smorgasbord, you try this and that and these. You find out that this stinks, but you like that and these. At least you know not to order this any more.

                    Gleb said something that I believe is very important:
                    Originally posted by Gleb View Post
                    ... People may also study different paths and beliefs in order to rise spiritually, or just for their own knowledge...
                    Knowledge! Don't just study your own tradition. Look at others. See how they view the same issues. One of the things that makes being a Pagan so difficult is that there are so many different viewpoints on the same subject. And one of the most wonderful things about being a Pagan is that there are so many different viewpoints on the same subject. In other words, look at things from as many sides as you can. That way you will be able to find the answers you seek much easier.

                    As for worshiping Satan... I have not looked into that yet. For starters I don't believe that He exists in the way that I was taught. I don't believe that ANYONE, or ANYTHING is completely good or completely bad. I even questioned that when I was still a Christian (and now I found my answer). Are you going to hell for following Satan? I doubt it because I doubt that hell exists. Unless you believe that what I call the "Underworld" was converted into hell by the Christians. Then Yes, you will go to hell, someday. But it's NOTHING like you've been told that it is. It's our real home. It's where we go when we are done with our vacation here. In other words, there is no eternal lake of fire for you to go to. But there IS the hell of being in a shopping mall on Black Friday... I'd avoid that if I were you.

                    Follow the path (think worship) that you feel is right. Don't be afraid to ask questions. And don't be afraid to feel at peace with yourself. Think of it as if you had been in the Army. You had to march on hard pavement in heavy boots. You had to march over hill and dale in heavy boots. You had to march here and there. And now you are out of the Army. You don't have to march in heavy boots. You don't have to march, you can walk, or run as you see fit. You can wear boots, shoes, sandals or just go barefoot. Your path may be uphill at times, but you don't have to march up it. In other words, things are a bit less stressful on this path, so enjoy it. Follow your path and see where it goes.

                    Oh yeah. Do I believe in Greek Gods as well as Celtic Gods? Yes. I may not follow them; but that does not mean that they don't exist. I even believe in Jehovah... just not in the way I used to.

                    I hope this helps.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                      Welcome! I'm Malflick's Pagan girlfriend. Other people have already said this, but you'll definitely find friends here, and people you share some things in common with. We're super tolerant of everyone.

                      As to your questions, personally I identify as an eclectic Pagan witch. I mostly focus on the Greek, Celtic, and Norse mythologies, although I do believe in all the gods. I do rituals on the ancient Celtic holidays with candles and food offerings, I worship Greek, Celtic, and Norse gods, and I practice witchcraft (mostly healing spells). I believe that all religions have some truth to their followers: if someone wants to view Jesus as divine then that's great and I wish them luck on their path, but personally I do not think Jesus was divine. This is spirituality we're dealing with, the truth of the matter lies in faith. On that note, it is completely up to you to decide what you believe in. I was also raised Christian, went through several different religions in high school and early college, and had a few periods of agnosticism and confusion before I found Paganism and decided it was the right path for me. And even within Paganism, there are several completely different paths. My brother and I are both Pagans, but we do not agree on anything. It's my personal experience that if you feel something is missing, eventually you will find it. Don't worry.

                      Also, maybe you should check this thread out: http://www.paganforum.com/showthread...or-Polytheists

                      If you have any more questions for me, feel free to send me a message.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                        Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                        But then, slowly, I started reading further into it. In particular, a website where she got this entire idea, which some of you may know what I'm talking about but I'll be polite and not name it :: .
                        Judging by your later comments on the matter, I think I know the one you're talking about. I just want to point out that this particular site is not representative of the entire Satanist community, and is not particularly well respected within that community. If you are feeling that some of the Theistic Satanist values and whatnot resonated with you, yet lost your respect for this particular group, then it would be worth checking out other Satanist groups.

                        We recently had a thread with some other new people (actually two threads that got merged) about a similar topic. You can see it here if you like. We also have several threads about related topics that are still currently active. So take a look around and you may find that the Satanist door is not completely closed to you.

                        Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                        I can say now I do believe in astral projection, the benefits of meditation, magic. Those things for certain. I THINK I believe in some sort of higher power but what, I'm not sure. I will say the idea that all of the gods over countless cultures and religions are the same beings, just with different names and attributes depending on how the culture perceived/perceives him/her, made and still makes the most sense to me...
                        If this is the case then Rowanwood's thoughts on the matter may actually interest you more than some of the rest of us. Personally I'm hard-polytheistic, so I believe that each and every deity is a distinct individual entity who exists in the Otherworlds, which is a set of realms that are on a different plane of existence to ours. I'm also a panentheist, so I believe that there is also an overarching, immanent and transcendent Divine power that is inherent in all things. To me this is quite separate to deities... which is why I can be both. Most people are not pantheist or panentheist AND polytheistic. lol

                        Incidentally, I don't believe that the biblical Satan and Enki are the same being. I seem to be talking about Satan a lot lately, which is kinda weird but refreshing lol I subscribe to the idea that Satan is a title, not a name... which is attested to in the biblical text, where ha-Satan is used in it's translation as 'The Accuser' or 'The Adversary' to describe an angel fulfilling a role, rather than a particular being. It's possible that this role was filled by several different angels within the biblical texts, but I doubt that Enki was one of the ha-Satans mentioned in the Bible. However, Satan is a title that can be theoretically applied to any deity who fulfills the Adversary archetypal role within their pantheon... and in this sense then Enki can be considered a Satan, as can deities like Set and Loki. So while I don't believe that Enki is the Satan mentioned in the Bible, I do believe that he is a Satan.

                        Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                        I respect all religious beliefs but I know that Chistianity/Judaism/Islam aren't for me.
                        I was raised Catholic, and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Catholicism or my experience within it. I have many friends who follow Judeo-Christian faiths... Christians, Mormons, Christadelphians and Jehovah's Witnesses... and they are all lovely, caring, open minded people, most of whom know that I am pagan and who respect me just the same. But then, I live in Australia, and we don't have the same sort of fundamentalist sects that exist in America, and that means that my experience of Judeo-Christian faiths if often quite different to those of people from the US.

                        I bring this up because it's very common in the pagan community to see people discount the Judeo-Christian faiths or talk about how you need to separate yourself from that and forget everything they ever taught you. I understand that this stems from the negative experiences that many pagans had as children... my husband is from Louisiana and he certainly had negative experiences within a fundamentalist, bigoted community. However, I have a slightly different approach and I try to encourage it in others when I can.

                        The Judeo-Christian faiths are just different. They are one perspective on the world, and their texts and dogma reflects that. It's important to remember that and not throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

                        My husband is a Theistic Satanist and we are both Demonolators, so we work with beings and entities from the early Judaic and Caananite pantheons. You learn to look at the Biblical stories from a different perspective... as a child I learned these stories from a Catholic perspective. Now I read them from a non-Judeo-Christian perspective. They are the same stories, and with mostly the same interpretation... it's me and my view of the world that is different, and so now I can learn from the stories in a different way.

                        Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                        Also, what do you worship/follow? I have no idea what people do- do you believe in Greek Gods, Roman, Egyptian, Norse? What sort of tradition do you follow?
                        I am... an odd blend lol. As I mentioned before I am hard-polytheist, so I actually believe in all the deities in all the different pantheons. And I believe that they literally all exist in their own corner of the Otherworlds as separate and distinct entities. Having said that, I am primarily Northern Tradition, and I am sworn to a goddess of the Norse pantheons. That is the mythology and cosmos that I resonate with the most, and that has drawn me since I was a child. When I journey within the Otherworlds it's the Norse Nine Worlds that I journey to. However, I have and do work with deities outside of the Northern pantheons. I am also a large part Demonolator, and I work with Goetic Demons on a regular basis. Ironically enough, I probably work with Demons more than I work with most of the deities of the Norse pantheons... it doesn't seem to bother Skuld and it's been working for me so far so I'll keep doing it lol. Next to Skuld, Barbatos (a Goetic Demon) is the deity with whom I have the closest relationship.

                        I also work a lot with animal energies and spirits, and with local land spirits, along with my team of spirit helpers (aka my spiritual household lol). So not all my work is with deities.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                          Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
                          I think that you answered your own question about why in your original post. You feel like something is missing. That's the primary reason people flock to any religious practice.

                          ....

                          What it really comes down to is that there's nothing wrong with really throwing yourself into a practice. Its the only way you can really learn about it and see if it matches what you already know, even if you don't know you know it yet. It's normal to get a lot of satisfaction from something at first and then find that it falls short. That just means the search is still on.

                          It's a journey.
                          Thank you All of this emphasis on this being a journey has been very helpful. Trial and error. And your story is interesting!

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          This is the day that I have been waiting for since I first put my foot to the pagan portion of my path! The day when I would see someone having as much trouble as I did when I first started. Oh happy Day!
                          This truly made me smile. I feel a bit less burdened just reading the first part of your post.

                          All of your emphasis on unlearning Christianity is wise. I've tried to and I've come a long, long way. It's amazing how ingrained in you that stuff is even at a subconscious level that controls your reactions to things in the present. It was hard and I did a lot of it the wrong way at the behest of fellow Satanists (the wrong way for me, at least) but I'm here and I'm a lot better off. There's still a long way to go, however.

                          Part of my interest in learning about what other people believe and follow is because there are so many different traditions and religions and philosophies that it's hard to wrap my head around them all! It's interesting to hear new things I didn't know about before.
                          As for worshiping Satan... I have not looked into that yet. For starters I don't believe that He exists in the way that I was taught. I don't believe that ANYONE, or ANYTHING is completely good or completely bad.
                          Yeah, as a Satanist that was a strong value for me; He wasn't completely good, or bad! But benevolent, perhaps. I looked at the Gods as much like us, in personality. All different, all complex, all able to good or bad, free will, except a lotttttt more knowledgable than us, of course. Some have our best interest at heart, some are selfish, some are mean, some are sweet, some are kind but you have to earn their kindness; it's endless.

                          As a general note, I always felt and still feel a lot of deep respect and affection for the Gods/Goddesses I worked with in Satanism. I even feel like I 'miss' them? In the sense i haven't worked with them or felt their presence in so long? It's sad. My biggest issue with Satanism was that I didn't want to be a 'Satanist' anymore. I felt like calling what I believed 'Satanism' wasn't right for me. I didn't really believe in Satan after all; I believed in Gods and Goddesses demonized and stamped with names such as Satan.

                          I doubt it because I doubt that hell exists. Unless you believe that what I call the "Underworld" was converted into hell by the Christians. Then Yes, you will go to hell, someday. But it's NOTHING like you've been told that it is. It's our real home. It's where we go when we are done with our vacation here. In other words, there is no eternal lake of fire for you to go to.
                          Ah, yes. As an ex-devout christian, the fear of hell still lingers as the lightest searing kiss on my brain at times. I don't want to be skinned and covered in cockroaches then dipped in acid or anything. Aghh.
                          A place to rest, restore, replenish, before incarnating again? that sounds wonderful, perfect. But I'm not sure if it's realistic or just something I want to be true.

                          Thank you for your post, I really appreciate it!

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Welcome! I'm Malflick's Pagan girlfriend. Other people have already said this, but you'll definitely find friends here, and people you share some things in common with. We're super tolerant of everyone.
                          I hope so! Everyone seems absolutely lovely so far I love all the responses I've gotten to this.
                          I was also raised Christian, went through several different religions in high school and early college, and had a few periods of agnosticism and confusion before I found Paganism and decided it was the right path for me.
                          Ah, this is comforting. I don't have to be settled yet. I'm 19 so I'm glad I'm not supposed to know all of this already :P
                          Also, maybe you should check this thread out....(not alllowing me to post links)
                          If you have any more questions for me, feel free to send me a message.
                          Thank you! I peaked at this thread while writing out this response and it looks like it could answer a lot of questions for me- and perhaps create many more. I will probably be messaging you in the near future.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Judging by your later comments on the matter, I think I know the one you're talking about. I just want to point out that this particular site is not representative of the entire Satanist community, and is not particularly well respected within that community. If you are feeling that some of the Theistic Satanist values and whatnot resonated with you, yet lost your respect for this particular group, then it would be worth checking out other Satanist groups... So take a look around and you may find that the Satanist door is not completely closed to you.
                          I was a Satanist for a little over three years; I remember when I first read one of the brutal rebuttals to that website, I had my whole world shattered. I was a lot younger, 16 or 17. It took me some time to recover from that; I always knew there were of course many different forms of Satanism, even ones like LaVeyan that don't even believe in Satan as an actual being but more of a symbol. But I put so much stock into this one being absolutely right that it was a bitter taste to know the woman who put this all together was not infallible. Obviously this is ridiculous on my part but I was young and I suspect that my Christian ways of wholeheartedly believing in one true religion were still ground into me. Now, of course, I think there is no one right way.

                          I still feel I most identify with 'Satanism' for lack of a better name. I did commit, I still feel affectionate toward the Gods&Goddesses that have helped me in many ways, and I haven't revoked that commitment yet. I have many of the same beliefs- though, many different ones, as well. I felt like a large part of what went wrong is that fear during rituals. During meditation. Everything felt really dark. I'm not sure why because it wasn't always that way. I assumed the Gods were mad at me for something, but even that didn't quite make sense. That's probably what halted things altogether for me. Perhaps I should just face it though.

                          If this is the case then Rowanwood's thoughts on the matter may actually interest you more than some of the rest of us. Personally I'm hard-polytheistic, so I believe that each and every deity is a distinct individual entity who exists in the Otherworlds, which is a set of realms that are on a different plane of existence to ours. I'm also a panentheist, so I believe that there is also an overarching, immanent and transcendent Divine power that is inherent in all things. To me this is quite separate to deities... which is why I can be both. Most people are not pantheist or panentheist AND polytheistic. lol
                          This really appeals to me too! I'm very open minded so I think it's possible the Gods&Goddesses are all completely their own individual entity. I just identify a bit more with believing there's a concrete set that's been around forever with different names/descriptions. Panentheist definitely appeals to me.

                          Incidentally, I don't believe that the biblical Satan and Enki are the same being. I seem to be talking about Satan a lot lately, which is kinda weird but refreshing lol I subscribe to the idea that Satan is a title, not a name... which is attested to in the biblical text, where ha-Satan is used in it's translation as 'The Accuser' or 'The Adversary' to describe an angel fulfilling a role, rather than a particular being. It's possible that this role was filled by several different angels within the biblical texts, but I doubt that Enki was one of the ha-Satans mentioned in the Bible. However, Satan is a title that can be theoretically applied to any deity who fulfills the Adversary archetypal role within their pantheon... and in this sense then Enki can be considered a Satan, as can deities like Set and Loki. So while I don't believe that Enki is the Satan mentioned in the Bible, I do believe that he is a Satan.
                          It's interesting, the further along my path I've come the more I definitely see Satan as just a title... so I agree with you there. And when I was so engulfed in this one particular form of Satanism, that obviously didn't bode well with me when I started thinking Satan and Enki weren't the same person. That contributed to my religious meltdown, per se, hehe.

                          The Judeo-Christian faiths are just different. They are one perspective on the world, and their texts and dogma reflects that. It's important to remember that and not throw the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.
                          Ah, another good point. And everything you said before this, I just didn't want to quote it all because this post is getting rather bulky. It's interesting the people you know are so open minded; the ones I have known may be loving and kind, but they certainly aren't open minded! I don't really blame them for this though? I think of it as sort of like, they don't know better. The further I've come, the more I think there is something to be learned from all religions and they should be respected. More conflict with the 16-year-old mindset I had back then that as a satanist I needed to hate Christianity and Christians. I know that's not the case now.

                          [QUOTE]I am... an odd blend lol. As I mentioned before I am hard-polytheist, so I actually believe in all the deities in all the different pantheons. And I believe that they literally all exist in their own corner of the Otherworlds as separate and distinct entities. Having said that, I am primarily Northern Tradition, and I am sworn to a goddess of the Norse pantheons. That is the mythology and cosmos that I resonate with the most, and that has drawn me since I was a child. When I journey within the Otherworlds it's the Norse Nine Worlds that I journey to. However, I have and do work with deities outside of the Northern pantheons. I am also a large part Demonolator, and I work with Goetic Demons on a regular basis. Ironically enough, I probably work with Demons more than I work with most of the deities of the Norse pantheons... it doesn't seem to bother Skuld and it's been working for me so far so I'll keep doing it lol. Next to Skuld, Barbatos (a Goetic Demon) is the deity with whom I have the closest relationship.[/QUOTE
                          Interesting, I need to brush up on my Norse mythology! I don't know much about it. I actually just finished a large book on Greek mythology. Norse was my next venture.

                          I like that you work with such a variety of entities. It seems the way to go. I don't think I could ever abandon the 'demons' I have worked with. Some people may disagree with this but they become like extremely close friends. You miss them, you have a wonderful time with them, but you also learn a lot from them and achieve a lot by working with them. It's amazing.

                          I also work a lot with animal energies and spirits, and with local land spirits, along with my team of spirit helpers (aka my spiritual household lol). So not all my work is with deities.
                          This is exactly why I wanted to have feedback/posts here! I never thought to research animal spirits/energies, or land spirits? This is something I'm very interested in Thank you.

                          Thank you all so much for sharing. Each unique perspective has given me a lot to reflect on and even put me at ease in a lot of ways. I really appreciate it. If anyone else wants to come forward and share, I'd still love to hear your voice! Sort of, even though I'm reading what you say, hehe...

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                            #14
                            Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                            Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                            ... Each unique perspective has given me a lot to reflect on and even put me at ease in a lot of ways...
                            Bingo!

                            As long as you seek different perspectives, you will find your way much easier. From where you stand at the moment, you can only see one side of whatever you are looking at. Only by moving, thus changing your perspective, will you be able to see all sides. And sometimes, what you are looking for is on the other side... the one you can't see right now.

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                              #15
                              Re: My horrible confusion. Your input is very important! Your stories are appreciated

                              Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                              It's interesting, the further along my path I've come the more I definitely see Satan as just a title... so I agree with you there. And when I was so engulfed in this one particular form of Satanism, that obviously didn't bode well with me when I started thinking Satan and Enki weren't the same person. That contributed to my religious meltdown, per se, hehe.
                              Just remember that just because one style didn't suit you, or some beliefs and opinions change, or you don't agree with everything that you see in a community, doesn't mean that you can't be a part of that community. Now, I'm not one to say 'call yourself a Satanist even if you don't work with any Satans'... that's appropriation and it's exactly why I don't identify as Satanist. I'm also not one to say 'worship whoever you like but call yourself a Satanist anyway' because that's also appropriation and is disrespectful. But it's okay to worship a deity who could hold the Satan title, believe in the core concepts of the faith, call yourself a Satanist but disagree with most of the groups. It's also okay to not have a label.

                              Personally... I share 98% of my husbands' beliefs and attitudes as a Satanist. But I don't call myself a Satanist because I don't worship anyone who can be called ha-Satan. I call myself a Demonolator because I DO regularly work with and honor Demons, but I otherwise don't actually do much in the way of the practices that the wider Demonolatry community practices. I claim the term 'Northern Tradition' because I that's the best descriptor for the majority of what I do, but I refuse to call myself Heathen because I'm not reconstructionist and I'm not comfortable using a term that I don't qualify for. I don't call myself a Totemist anymore, even though I work with animal energies and guides, because the term is inherently appropriative in nature. That's also why I don't claim the term Shamanist even though I do some journeying to the Otherworlds and work with spirits. Nor do I claim the label of seidhkona, because I don't really fit that either. My point with all that is that while labels are just labels, I feel they are still worthy of respect and that the way we define ourselves should be reflective of the way that we live our lives and practice our faith.

                              My other point is that you can be several things at once... and it's okay to do so if it comes from a place of introspection, self awareness and respect. It's also okay to just do what you do and leave it at that. Sometimes people who are transitioning from one path to another get caught up in belonging or conforming, or fitting the description of a particular community. A faith or path doesn't need a label, and I'm of the opinion that if you do chose to use one then it's best to only do so if you actually do fit the descriptions. lol

                              So if you still agree with the core concepts and if the entities you work with can claim ha-Satan as a title or 'Adversary' as an archetypal role, then there is no reason to stop calling yourself a Satanist. It doesn't have to be something that you 'used to be' if that is what you still are.

                              Originally posted by seafoam View Post
                              I like that you work with such a variety of entities. It seems the way to go. I don't think I could ever abandon the 'demons' I have worked with. Some people may disagree with this but they become like extremely close friends. You miss them, you have a wonderful time with them, but you also learn a lot from them and achieve a lot by working with them. It's amazing.
                              You don't have to abandon the entities you've worked with before, and really, it's probably best not to lol.

                              Despite the fact that I work with beings from different pantheons, and I do believe that you can mix and match pantheons if everyone is amenable, I'm actually not a fan of mixing and matching in general. Sometimes it's makes me feel like a hypocrite, because I practice a peculiar blend of things myself, but to me the important thing is HOW it's done. I don't recommend the 'do what feels right' thing, because avoiding cultural appropriation and maintaining cultural context and respect is important to me. I definitely believe that it CAN be done, and that it IS the best path for many people... I just think that it should be done only after a great deal of learning and introspection.

                              I think that mixing pantheons is also not about you, but about the entities you're working with. If they are happy to work with others then go for it. But I err on the side of checking with them first. To me, building a relationship with an entity and then dropping them to try something new is disrespectful. I approach these beings as individuals... I wouldn't do that to a person, so why would I do that to an entity. But of course sometimes, as humans, we do things that are misunderstood, or out of misunderstanding, or we evolve as people and outgrow our old acquaintances. Communication is the key there... if it's not working then it's okay to say so and to end the relationship.

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