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Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

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    #31
    Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

    That's actually a very interesting link. Thanks for sharing! A lot of Hebrew writing was based on older Sumerian writings and so forth. I hear that Yahweh is really Enlil, too.

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      #32
      Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

      Originally posted by Alienist View Post
      That's actually a very interesting link. Thanks for sharing! A lot of Hebrew writing was based on older Sumerian writings and so forth. I hear that Yahweh is really Enlil, too.

      You are welcome, I am glad you found it helpful. My opinion is that the kingly line that the hebrew scriptures focus on, is the Sumerian kingship. I believe Adapa / 'Adam' was the son of EA. I came to this conclusion by years of reading and looking at artifacts. At one time I had the same opinion as you, that YAH was EN.LIL. At this point I believe YAH is EA, or a description of fusing the two. I believe this is also why we see the focus on stories of 'brothers at odds' or 'brothers inheriting', as in conflict over which brother carries on the line.
      I do believe we had an original Torah but it has been modified to suit, but believe we can still find other more possibly accurate information.

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        #33
        Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

        I think...at least I hope, that Bible story of Genesis is a metaphor, and at least is probably best read as one. Joseph Campbell talks a lot about this...but it was always my impression that it was a parable for the beginning on consciousness in human beings.

        My cat does not think like I do. She doesn't ponder her place in the universe or worry about god. She just is.

        At one point in human evolution, we went from a creature that just was to a creature that looked up at the sky and wondered, who am I? and why am I here? To me, that's always been the "tree of knowledge." But to know, to be aware, there is then a moral responsibility that occurs. You don't say a lion sins for eating his rival's cubs, but a man kills his neighbor's child and its a murder.

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          #34
          Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

          Originally posted by shebani View Post
          You are welcome, I am glad you found it helpful. My opinion is that the kingly line that the hebrew scriptures focus on, is the Sumerian kingship. I believe Adapa / 'Adam' was the son of EA. I came to this conclusion by years of reading and looking at artifacts. At one time I had the same opinion as you, that YAH was EN.LIL. At this point I believe YAH is EA, or a description of fusing the two. I believe this is also why we see the focus on stories of 'brothers at odds' or 'brothers inheriting', as in conflict over which brother carries on the line.
          I do believe we had an original Torah but it has been modified to suit, but believe we can still find other more possibly accurate information.
          Are you referring to the Sumerian civilisation founded by Nimrod? If so, then that kingly line existed after the flood. The garden of Eden was a long time before.

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            #35
            Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

            Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
            I think...at least I hope, that Bible story of Genesis is a metaphor, and at least is probably best read as one. Joseph Campbell talks a lot about this...but it was always my impression that it was a parable for the beginning on consciousness in human beings.

            My cat does not think like I do. She doesn't ponder her place in the universe or worry about god. She just is.

            At one point in human evolution, we went from a creature that just was to a creature that looked up at the sky and wondered, who am I? and why am I here? To me, that's always been the "tree of knowledge." But to know, to be aware, there is then a moral responsibility that occurs. You don't say a lion sins for eating his rival's cubs, but a man kills his neighbor's child and its a murder.

            This...and most cultures have a story akin to this--a creation of people as something a wee bit different from other animals.
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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              #36
              Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

              Originally posted by DON View Post
              Are you referring to the Sumerian civilisation founded by Nimrod? If so, then that kingly line existed after the flood. The garden of Eden was a long time before.

              Agree. I believe we are given an unworkable timeline in the hebrew scriptures, but by comparing Noah is listed, and on to Laban father of Abraham.

              Noah = Akkadian Atrahasis ("extremely wise") and Utnapishtim ("he found life"), & Ziusudra

              In the WB-62 Sumerian king list recension, Ziusudra, or Zin-Suddu of Shuruppak is recorded as having reigned as both king and gudug priest for 10 sars, or periods of 3,600.[5] In this version, Ziusudra inherited rulership from his father Šuruppak (written SU.KUR.LAM)

              SU.KUR.LAM = LAMECH (IMO)

              Sorry OP if considered a derail.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Sorry I meant Terah, father of Abraham.
              Last edited by shebani; 06 Feb 2014, 15:14.

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                #37
                Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth

                Originally posted by DON View Post
                I happen to believe in a literal interpretation of the scriptures unless it is obviously in a metaphorical context.

                So to me the events in the garden happened just as described. The serpent was indeed Satan in the physical form of a serpent.

                How do I then address this OP?

                Well things were different back then. The serpent apparently had legs back then as part of the punishment was to crawl along in the dust. Adam and Eve also had a different physical form.
                It is clear from the later scriptures that mankind in our present form can not stand in the presence of God and physically survive, and yet Adam and Eve apparently hung out with god all the time.

                Another thing to consider is the foundation for this OP. Why was the serpent punished for telling the truth. Well did the serpent actually tell the truth. Legalistically yes, but in reality, no. If you're confused with that concept then spend a day in court :-)


                There are three promises the serpent made:
                1. You will have knowledge.
                2. You will be like a god.
                3. You will not die.

                1. Remember that Adam and Eve had full access to God and could ask Him anything. They already had access to any and all knowledge they ever desired. the serpent was promising something they already had, but represented it in a way as to mislead. In fact, the result is that Adam and Eve were cut off from all knowledge.

                2. Adam and Eve were immortal beings, free from sickness and disease, and in constant connection with the creator of the universe. The serpent used the word "like" to imply that Adam and Eve would in some form or function reflect god-ness. Since Adam and Eve were created in the likeness of God, then even after the fall, they were "like" a god. But were not gods. Again, Adam and Eve gave up a state of existence very similar to God assuming that they would become God and this is not what the serpent actually said.

                3. Before the tree of knowledge, death did not exist. then after they did indeed die. In fact, God said to Adam and Eve that they would die the very same day of partaking of the fruit. It too me a while to reconcile this one as it really does appear that God may have lied (which according to my faith is not possible) until I remembered that the scriptures state that to God, 1000 years is a day and a day 1000 years. Adam lived for 930 years after expulsion, which falls within the 1000 year time window for a day.

                Now, I believe that the serpent really did lie and was subsequently punished. There was no real truth in any of the promises he made, but distortions and misleading arguments. Yes, there was technical truth there, but the scriptures are clear that God doesn't buy technicalities like that and truth must be both sincere and accurate.

                - - - Updated - - -

                I would like to elaborate on this discussion of choice.
                Adam and Eve has choice right from the get go. The trees were in the garden so they had the free will to choose.

                I don't think the serpent brought choice or free will at all. It brought temptation, defiance, greed, and deception.

                It also brought the seed wars as described in the first prophesy of the book of Genesis.
                Actually the serpent was correct on saying they'd be like God. Because God himself admitted that the humans were like him and then placed something to guard the tree of life.

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