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Thread: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

  1. #1
    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    This just so chappes my freaking butt.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...utm_medium=RSS

    Sure cut the retirement for the Vets,and forget all the waste for contracts that no one really wants except the contractors.

    I wonder if Ryan was ever in the military at all?
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    Member blue_coyote's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Don't you know? We're all disposable, us bottom rung 80% of the population who do things like like risk our lives as though we were living pawns in a giant's game of chess. The value of a life in this country is more and more determined by the amount of income it creates. Soldiers coming back from these hollow wars aren't all coming back mentally whole, some not physically. So why keep putting money into these throw away pawns once they've done their job?

    I don't believe in fighting, but those who risk everything to protect the ones they love and people they have never met, they should be honored and treated with respect. They have more value than a lot of people. They definitely have more value than most politicians.

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    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Sadly that's another aspect of having wars that are not in the public eye anymore. We're still at war but it seems the public has forgotten in many ways so there tends not to be uproar when politicians try stuff like this. Though I think there is still a lot of misconception of how the military is paid and taxed. I still hear people argue the military pays no taxes type arguments.

    Wish to heck that were true at times but they sure took out taxes and stuff from every paycheck I got while on active duty. Of course we also used to like the pay increases, it always amazed us that we got a .5 raises yet prices always went up 1.5 or more.

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    Member blue_coyote's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Had that conversation with a vet. Military personnel should not be taxed. When they are taxed that means that they're having to spend their own money to pay their own pay checks.

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    Grey Warden Rowanwood's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Did you read the whole article though?

    “To be clear, the money we save from this reform will go right back to the military,” Mr. Ryan wrote in the USA Today oped. “Veterans aren’t Washington’s piggy bank. They deserve fair compensation. And we owe them a benefit structure they can count on.”

    The budget deal also cuts retirement benefits for wounded vets, a mistake in the law that both Mrs. Murray and Mr. Ryan have vowed to amend before the cuts go into effect in 2015.



    So it appears to just be restructuring the benefits and making sure that there is actually money to pay the bills. Conservatives are usually very concerned about veterans so without the specifics of the bill, I think I will personally hold on to my judgement for now.

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    306 Maria de Luna's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Quote Originally Posted by monsno_leedra View Post
    Sadly that's another aspect of having wars that are not in the public eye anymore. We're still at war but it seems the public has forgotten in many ways so there tends not to be uproar when politicians try stuff like this. Though I think there is still a lot of misconception of how the military is paid and taxed. I still hear people argue the military pays no taxes type arguments.

    Wish to heck that were true at times but they sure took out taxes and stuff from every paycheck I got while on active duty. Of course we also used to like the pay increases, it always amazed us that we got a .5 raises yet prices always went up 1.5 or more.
    I did the math once and while I don't remember the exact numbers I do remember that I was taxed more in my military paychecks than I ever was in a civillian one. I got more back come tax season, but it always raised my eyebrows a bit to look at the numbers. I will admit that I was not taxed while I was in a combat zone... but do we really want to tax military people while they are in combat? That just seems wrong... much like taking their retirement benefits. I have to admit though, that I agree with Rowanwood on this one. I don't think that this bit of the bill will ever really go into effect, or it will end up being restructured, averaging out to the same benefits for military retirees. It is the wounded vet care I worry about most of all, and I imagine someone will find a way to fix that, and can you imagine what the impact would be if anyone on either side of the aisle voted against giving wounded vets coverage? yeah, politicians don't respond well to political suicide... (unless they are taking pics of their junk.)
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    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Maria de Luna View Post
    I did the math once and while I don't remember the exact numbers I do remember that I was taxed more in my military paychecks than I ever was in a civillian one. I got more back come tax season, but it always raised my eyebrows a bit to look at the numbers. I will admit that I was not taxed while I was in a combat zone... but do we really want to tax military people while they are in combat? That just seems wrong...
    I agree about the combat exclusion on taxes. If you deployed into a combat zone then you deserve the exclusions I think. I've known a few people that re-enlisted in a combat zone so they could avoid taxes on their re-enlistment bonuses but they were already in the combat zone and facing that danger anyway. Being in the Navy it was a pain for us at times as we would be in the zone then out of it depending upon what our orders were. I recall one point I passed in and out of it a number of times and it screwed my pay up and they tried to work the calendar out.

    much like taking their retirement benefits. I have to admit though, that I agree with Rowanwood on this one. I don't think that this bit of the bill will ever really go into effect, or it will end up being restructured, averaging out to the same benefits for military retirees.
    Truthfully I do not know. I'm already seeing changes to my VA benefits and this just falls into that arena to me. As far as benefits the government has been screwing with our retirement and benefits since I first joined in 1978 until I retired 23 years later. There were more variants and programs than one could shake the proverbial stick at. Whether it was our GI Bill, New GI Bill, or VEAP School program, retirement itself and the program used to compute it and retirement points earned. Figure you had the 2 active 4 reserve 2 inactive reserve program, 4 active 4 reserve program, 2x10 program and a multitude of special test programs.

    The problem has always been the hope that the issues would be straightened out once it passed or before it was passed as a promise. Unfortunately that seldom happened though there were many promises it would be corrected or made better.

    It is the wounded vet care I worry about most of all, and I imagine someone will find a way to fix that, and can you imagine what the impact would be if anyone on either side of the aisle voted against giving wounded vets coverage? yeah, politicians don't respond well to political suicide... (unless they are taking pics of their junk.)
    Not as much of a bullet to the head as one would think. Especially given the political makeup of the houses and how many former military there are in or not in them. As far as coverage look to see how many wounded vets come home with wounds that occur in a combat zone but are not combat related so those benefits do not have to be paid or are reduced. It once was if you got wounded in a combat zone it was a combat associated wound now that is not so. Heart attack - not combat related though you might have been humping 100 lbs of gear in 100 plus degree heat. Tank rolls over into the river, not combat related death as reported already. Stress related suicide not combat related though you killed yourself after multiple tours or while in country.

    A longer war with more wounded veterans yet the category of classification has really been exploited from what I read from DAV (Disabled American Vets) sites and material. I am a member of the DAV and a disabled vet myself. The VA is a monster to work through in the best of times and most people do not realize how well documented things have to be in their military medical records before it becomes military service connected disability issues. I know when I retired I was told to let the military process me for medical discharge and let the VA fight for my disability and stuff. Luckily I had other advisers who made me stay active until I retired and got all of it in my records and well documented so it only took about 4 years to get everything initially through the VA system. But I can tell you those last few years were hell as my body was poked, prodded, stuck by needles, pins and test after test after test.

    Yet the sad part I suppose is that I miss the hell our of it almost daily and would have served longer if I could have. A part of me will forever remain on patrol though the ships I served on no longer exists and many of the bases I was at are now closed due to budget cuts and base realignment and closure proceedings. That and most of the people I served with have long since turned in their papers and are retired themselves now. All of that even considering all the changes I saw come down the pike between my newbie days in 1978 and foreward.

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    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    One idea for Wounded Vets would be,give them even a basic pension while they go through the process of being evaluated. Some people wait over a year,perhaps even longer for some just to be certified and determine their rate of disability from their wounds. What happens as far as being able to make ends meet while waiting for the certification to receive benefits. If a vet is wounded,there should be a basic rate until they get their main set of benefits.
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    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Quote Originally Posted by anunitu View Post
    One idea for Wounded Vets would be,give them even a basic pension while they go through the process of being evaluated. Some people wait over a year,perhaps even longer for some just to be certified and determine their rate of disability from their wounds. What happens as far as being able to make ends meet while waiting for the certification to receive benefits. If a vet is wounded,there should be a basic rate until they get their main set of benefits.
    That would be nice for sure. Sadly though I don't think it will ever happen as things stand at this time. To many differences between combat related and non combat related injuries off the bat. That not counting combat zone versus non combat zone locations. When your hurt it doesn't matter but to the public and government it sure makes a difference in how they treat you. I've had people say all sorts of things about disabled people, disabled adults especially, and those on assistance then tell me I'm different because mine occurred while I served in the military and in a combat zone. Heck I spent ten more years working for the school system surviving on pills and every sick / holiday / coup day I could earn to make it until I couldn't hardly make the drive much less walk. People tend to dislike it when injuries take you out for 60 plus days a year and restrictions make you only particually useful the rest of the time.

    In some ways I can see it though. A solider who is injured by an explosion under combat conditions competes against the solider who is injured in a car accident while driving a military vehicle in the states. Both injured in the performance of their duties and both potentially disabled from doing anything ever again. Yet the solider who is injured in combat is praised as a potential hero while the other is simply injured. So public outcry is to aid the combat solider over the other. Perhaps a social stigma from how Vietnam vets were treated as a whole and the public and government trying to make amends.

    So a pension would be a nice benefit for sure but I personally think it'd be killed before it even had a chance to be acted upon and approved. Early in the war after 9-11 perhaps as public support surged but this long after very doubtful it would have a chance.

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    Re: Rep. Paul Ryan defends cuts to military retirement in budget bill

    Quote Originally Posted by Rowanwood View Post
    So it appears to just be restructuring the benefits and making sure that there is actually money to pay the bills. Conservatives are usually very concerned about veterans so without the specifics of the bill, I think I will personally hold on to my judgement for now.
    I don't believe this bill will do anything good. It's spending more up front with the promise of savings over ... what 10 years or so? Like a bill has NEVER been changed in the course of 10 years. This is nothing more than a way for this administration to spend more now and then forget about their obligations later. I predict that we will see this one circle back just before those spending cuts are about to go into effect.

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