Luciferianism and Satanism

[Alienist]

I am wondering what are the key differences between the 2. Isn't Lucifer Satan? Is Satan the name of the deity that theistic Satanists worship or is it just a title? Do they conflict with each other? I hear Luciferians are more passive than Satanists. There's a Church of Satan but is there a Luciferian Church. Please answer, especially if you happen to be a Luciferian or Satanist. Also are these considered Abrahamic religions. I mean, without Judaism and Christianity, we would not have had Luciferianism and Satanism, right?

[Torey]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

I am wondering what are the key differences between the 2.

The key differences...firstly, I would point out that "Satanism" can collectively refer to practices that are both theistic and atheistic in nature. "Satanism" as a term on its own usually refers to atheistic (LaVeyan) Satanism whereas a belief in the deity of Satan is differentiated by using the term "Theistic Satanism". The difference between Theistic Satanism and Luciferianism is primarily the title of the Patron Deity - Satan vs. Lucifer. Otherwise, neither "Theistic Satanism" and "Luciferianism" are singular religions - they are umbrella terms (like "Wicca") which describe a variety of different individual paths and practices. In other words, there is no one true form of Luciferianism and there is no one true form of Theistic Satanism.

Isn't Lucifer Satan?

No, although it is often a point of contention within debate - amongst Theistic Satanists who reject the existence of Lucifer, "Lucifer" was a term misconstrued in the Latin translation of the Bible as being equated with Satan as a fallen angel thanks to a passage in Isaiah. It is actually referring to the fall of a King of Babylon.

Is Satan the name of the deity that theistic Satanists worship or is it just a title?

Unlike within LaVeyan Satanism, Theistic Satanists do not simply use the term "Satan" as a title or a symbol, but do believe in and work with Him as a deity. Naturally, the symbol of Satan as a representative of free will and the pursuit of Knowledge is also attractive - but Satan, to most Theistic Satanists, is believed to be an actual entity. I would also add that there are some Theistic Satanists who believe that Satan is actually some other deity from world mythology such as Enki, but that is not generally the "norm".

Do they conflict with each other?

Not necessarily. Most Theistic Satanists and Luciferians are segregated by choice. There really is no "conflict" to speak of outside of individual practitioners having issues with other practitioners, etc.

I hear Luciferians are more passive than Satanists.

That is sometimes seen as being the case with some Theistic Satanists. There are those Theistic Satanists who believe that Luciferians are "fluffy darksiders" and are pretty much the equivalent of Wiccans who worship Lucifer. That is not the belief of all Theistic Satanists, however.

There's a Church of Satan but is there a Luciferian Church.

There are Luciferian orders. The Church of Satan is not a Theistic Satanic establishment, but is actually the creation of Anton LaVey (of atheistic Satanism).

Please answer, especially if you happen to be a Luciferian or Satanist. Also are these considered Abrahamic religions.
I mean, without Judaism and Christianity, we would not have had Luciferianism and Satanism, right?

This is akin to trying to define what makes a Pagan a Pagan. It is really dependent on the views of the person in question. Again, there are some Theistic Satanists who believe that Satan is actually a Christian perversion of a pre-Christian Pagan deity such as Enki - and thus, they wouldn't consider themselves to be Abrahamic as they reject the Judeo-Christian view of Satan (however, I question such practitioners who continue to refer to themselves as Theistic "Satanists" when they reject the Abrahamic origins of the figure and name of Satan).

For those Theistic Satanists, such as myself, who believe in aspects of Judeo-Christian mythology, it may be more accurate to describe us as Jewish or Christian heretics. Certainly many Theistic Satanists (and perhaps Luciferians) acknowledge that their beliefs originate within Abrahamic traditions.

[Medusa]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Pretty much there are 2 differences. There is Modern *where LaVeyan Satanism lives. And there is Traditional *where Luciferian Satanism lives. One is older the other is a more recent belief system.

Also LaVeyan Satanism tends to be Atheistic while traditional or Luciferian are theistic.


All the other differences I think are minor. They have more to do with the individual.

*didn't catch that post above me. What he said!

[anunitu]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Interesting points Torey,thanks for the insight.

[Malflick]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

I've actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Thank you Torey! I'd be curious to hear more about what theistic Satanists who are Abrahamic think about the beliefs of other Abrahamic faiths.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Torey has pretty much covered it, and I second everything he said, but I just want to add a bit of detail to the question of Lucifer vs Satan...

Isn't Lucifer Satan?

For most Luciferians and Theistic Satanists, no. There are SOME who believe that they are the same deity, but for the most part there is a reason that Luciferianists don't call themselves 'Satanists'... because they don't believe that the two are the same. Reasons for this vary... some believe that Lucifer is a misnomer and doesn't exist, some believe that the two are just different entities, some believe that Lucifer did hold the title of ha-Satan and chose to use his name rather than his title, and some believe that Lucifer is the fallen angel of Biblical stories and Satan is the Christian Devil.

There is fairly compelling evidence that the name Lucifer never referred to an angel at all, but to a Babylonian king, as Torey explained. The name became attached to a fallen angel through miscommunication and the same sort of generalised devilisation that caused Demons like Beelzebub and Asmodeus, as well as the title Baal, to be identifying with Satan.

Is Satan the name of the deity that theistic Satanists worship or is it just a title?

Depends on the Theistic Satanist. In early Biblical texts, the Hebrew term 'ha-satan' is a title, not a name. It roughly translates as 'accuser' or 'adversary' and refers to the Angel who's job it is to test the faith and resolve of YHVH's followers. No one knows who the ha-Satan of the Biblical texts was, or if it was even always the same Angel. But it's assumed by most that it was the same Angel who rebelled and led the Fall. We don't know this Fallen Angel (who is now also considered a Demon)'s original name, and so we call him Satan. Therefore whenever we are referring to The Satan, it is a title and honorific that has become his name, because we don't know what name he held before his job as ha-Satan. Kind of like calling the Queen of England 'Her Majesty' or 'Your Majesty' rather than 'Elizabeth'.

Some Theistic Satanists speculate on the original identity of Satan, with varying results. This is where you will see the idea that Enki IS Satan, or some such. Some use 'Satan' as a title that can be applied to deities in other pantheons that fill the Adversary archetypal role, such as Enki, Loki, Set etc. Therefore you can never really be sure what each individual Satanist means when they talk about their deity.

Personally I use the term 'Satan' in two ways. I use 'Satan' as the title-and-honorific-turned-name to refer to the entity who held the job of ha-satan at the time of the Fall. We don't know his name, so we call him by his title, which is actually not an inaccurate thing to do at all. I also use the term 'ha-satan' or 'ha-Satan' as a title that can theoretically be applied to any of the deities that fulfill the Adversary archetypal role. Having said that, I rarely use this term in actual conversation, because it tends to confuse people.

Also are these considered Abrahamic religions. I mean, without Judaism and Christianity, we would not have had Luciferianism and Satanism, right?

Again, it depends on the Theistic Satanist. I'm inclined to consider many Theistic Satanists to be Jewish or Christian Heretics, which would put them loosely into the Abrahamic category. But it largely depends on what constitutes their practice. Worshipping a deity named Satan is not enough to put you into the Abrahamic category... because not all versions of 'Satan' come from the Biblical texts. I don't call myself a Satanist, but I consider my philosophy regarding Theistic Satanism to fall loosely within an Abrahamic religious zone in the sense of being Jewish or Christian Heretic. But that then begs the question as to whether being a Heretic (notice the capitilisation... I don't mean non-believe heresy, but Heretic) puts you inside or outside of the faith.

Plus you also need to remember the difference between Theistic Satanists and LaVeyan Satanists. It's not really enough to say 'Satanist' and make questions or comments about what they believe, because the two branches are vastly, vastly different. I'm talking about Theistic Satanism here... LaVeyan Satanism is a whole other kettle of fish.

[Medusa]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Theistic Satanists are so much more interesting and full of glam and glitter. I got nuttin over here. I aint even got a god.



*cries in the atheist corner

[Torey]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

I've actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Thank you Torey! I'd be curious to hear more about what theistic Satanists who are Abrahamic think about the beliefs of other Abrahamic faiths.

I'm glad you didn't think that I was rambling on.

I do consider myself to be Abrahamic in regards to the origins of my belief. As I often say, I would most certainly be Jewish if I had ever accepted the authority of YHWH.

As for the beliefs of other Abrahamic faiths, I am actually quite interested - I enjoy discussing Jewish (and Christian) mythology, but unfortunately (as a Theistic Satanist), I often feel unwelcome in both the Neo-Pagan and the Abrahamic community, so I shy away from engaging in such discussions. Probably half of the books on my shelf are purely Jewish books - I have a collection of Bibles, as well.

I am very tolerant when it comes to those of Judeo-Christian traditions. I do wholly reject the authority of YHWH, and did (naturally) go through quite a phase of using anti-Christian symbolism in my practices, but have since moved beyond that.

An interesting aspect, if I may add, of my beliefs is that I do accept most of the mythology of the origins of the Universe in regards to Jewish mythological tradition. To clarify, I basically regard "the Creator of the Universe" and YHWH to be two different entities altogether, so I accept much of Creation mythology without attributing it to the "Judeo-Christian deity commonly referred to as God". The Creator, IMHO, is something that I refer to as The All (a throwback to my Wiccan days) and I believe that this entity is something more akin to a semi-sentient Energetic life force within the Universe that is both transcendent and immanent than an anthropomorphic deity.

In that, I suppose I have quite a great bit of belief in common with some Jews and Christians.

More specifically, what I think of practitioners of actual Abrahamic (traditional) religions is...how to put this...that they may be right about a lot of things, but wrong about others (IMHO); however, I wouldn't project my beliefs onto them - after all, everyone is entitled to take what they will from Biblical scriptures.

Theistic Satanists are so much more interesting and full of glam and glitter. I got nuttin over here. I aint even got a god.



*cries in the atheist corner

Nah. You don't need a god - you are one.

[anunitu]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Duce,you can have some cosmic energy to play with,I have plenty..

[Alienist]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Pretty interesting answers. Thanks everyone! A lot of people that talked to me about this subject often say Satan is a fallen angel and the word Satan is his title, but Lucifer is his real name. From what I'm seeing Lucifer and Satan are 2 entirely different entities. Lucifer in Luciferianism I hear is almost kind of like Prometheus, wanting to bring enlightenment and knowledge to all and help humanity. If Lucifer and Satan are two different entities, what are there personalities and goals? I've seen Satanists here but I haven't seen any Luciferians here. Anyone have or worked with Lucifer?

[anunitu]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

One might delve into the "Watchers" and I think some would construe them as based on the Anunnaki,from Sumerian Myth. I read somewhere(Don't have a reference for you) That the Jews began their religious concepts from being exposed to Sumerian beliefs.

[Alienist]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

If Satan is a title, than was is Satan's real name in Theistic Satanism? Also how is he depicted? Lucifer in Luciferianism is often depicted as an angel or god of light.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

If Satan is a title, than was is Satan's real name in Theistic Satanism? Also how is he depicted? Lucifer in Luciferianism is often depicted as an angel or god of light.

That depends on the branch on Theistic Satanism. I've seen Enki, Set and Loki all worshiped as a Satan deity. I'm sure there are others. Most don't appear to worship or accept Lucifer as Satan at all.

[Alienist]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

Satan basically means adversary but it doesn't seem to mean evil. It's just means adversary. Enki is considered a Satan for defying Enlil, Set is a Satan for going against Osiris and Horus and Loki is a Satan for going against Odin and the others. I wonder if Prometheus could be considered a Satan for going against Zeus by giving fire to humans.

So really any deity that goes against another could be considered a Satan, so that means that Lucifer is a Satan even though people who worship Lucifer prefer to be called Luciferians.

[Torey]

Re: Luciferianism and Satanism

If Satan is a title, than was is Satan's real name in Theistic Satanism? Also how is he depicted? Lucifer in Luciferianism is often depicted as an angel or god of light.

Again, there is no one answer to this question. Theistic Satanism is not a singular distinct religion - it is a collection of paths in the same way that there are denominations of Christianity. Different Theistic Satanists will believe differently when it comes to "who Satan 'really' is".

That being said, however, there are a few candidates for who the primary Satan of Judeo-Christian mythology could be. Many Theistic Satanists assert that His true name is Semjaza, one of the chief Grigori named in the Book of Enoch. Azazel, in terms of Jewish lore, is another candidate as well as Samael.

Regardless of what others believe His "true name" to be, within Theistic Satanism, Satan is often depicted as manifesting as a beautiful man. He is the bringer of Knowledge and champions spiritual and material freedom.

Satan basically means adversary but it doesn't seem to mean evil. It's just means adversary. Enki is considered a Satan for defying Enlil, Set is a Satan for going against Osiris and Horus and Loki is a Satan for going against Odin and the others. I wonder if Prometheus could be considered a Satan for going against Zeus by giving fire to humans.

So really any deity that goes against another could be considered a Satan, so that means that Lucifer is a Satan even though people who worship Lucifer prefer to be called Luciferians.

Yes and no. Any deity that is of a trickster-like Nature or is overtly defiant to oppression may be said to play a "Satan-like" role within their respective mythologies, but they are not Satans in the true sense of the word as the term applies to entities which originate within Abrahamic mythology or the mythologies having directly influenced the traditions associated with Abrahamic faiths such as those of the Caananites (and aspects of Babylonian mythology).

So I would not consider Loki, for example, to be a Satan - but I would consider Him to be a Satan-like figure instead.