Body Image

[anunitu]

Re: Body Image

Just to jump in here as a graduate(almost) but a senior in this here class of life, it is ALL BS and as a "Mature" human being I just say what matters these days to me is COMFORT,not fashion or being IN. It may just be that getting old has the effect of enlightenment as to what is really important(Pizza is one of those) If you are really lucky you figure that out when you are younger.

[Aeran]

Re: Body Image

I think it's getting bigger with men now as well (not that men are pressing it...that they're being marketed to in that way and it's affecting them more).

I'll agree that body image has become a much bigger issue with men over the last few years - a lot of guys I know end up stuck in a cycle of constantly going to the gym, taking tons of supplements, steroids etc. to try and conform to a certain body ideal, then they burn out after a month or two, go back to their old unhealthy lifestyle with interest, and repeat the whole thing a year later. Although I don't think body image is the sole problem here, a lot of it is to do with how messed up and unhealthy the modern 21st century lifestyle is, among other more nebulous issues. Obviously eating healthily, exercising etc. is generally a good thing, but when they're driven by the need to have a certain type of body to feel ok with themselves, it never seems to work out and in fact ends up counterproductive.

The difference, however, is that men, to me, seem to be much more realistic about where they're at, and they don't seem to take their unhappiness about their body out on other people. They might not like it, but a fat guy will generally just accept that they're fat, instead of expecting everyone to pretend they aren't (notice how the whole "fat acceptance" movement is entirely female) or constantly fishing for attention to be paid to their other good qualities to compensate, and they don't become resentful of or attack those other men who do manage to conform to their desired body ideal - so often when women who are unhappy about their body see a skinny, attractive woman, it's 'omg that skinny bitch, I bet she's anorexic/on drugs/never enjoys her life because she spends all her time exercising and eating salad and being stuck up etc etc.' whereas in the same situation for men it tends to be more 'hey wow that dude is built, he must work out like crazy etc etc'

[iflewoverthecuckoosnest]

Re: Body Image

It made sense

If people didn't buy it, they wouldn't be selling it. People can opt out... if they wish.

By the way, just because I think it's interesting, there is now a big market in selling beauty products to men in the U.S.

For the record, how important is a nicely plucked beard or trimmed chest hair patch, and/or manfume (perfume for men, of course) to you?

Are we guys now being lied to, and becoming slaves to some mysterious corporations advertising?

YES YOU ARE.
The advertising industry likes to simplify and narrow down peoples' tastes because it makes it easier to market things on a mass scale. Of course, it's nice to have a man who takes care of himself, but that "perfect" six-pack, tanned, pretty boy look just doesn't cut it for me. I prefer someone a little more rugged and real, and I know plenty of women who are perfectly happy with men of all physical types. Attraction is so much more complicated than a one size fits all mold.

[Clive]

Re: Body Image

Everyone is a slave to advertising. Corporations don't give a damn about things like race, religion, sex, or sexuality. We're all fair game and if they think they can somehow rope in a large group of people, they will try it.

The reason I lost weight to begin with was because I wanted to get laid more. Let's face it, gay men are notorious for pushing the "lean muscle = the only desirable body type" way of thinking. Now that I have lost weight, I still don't feel very good about myself and have little confidence when it comes to...that. Luckily I haven't been tempted to do anything stupid, unhealthy, or financially irresponsible, but evidently it is that important to a lot of people.

[Ektor]

Re: Body Image

I think this is caused by the way our society is so full of inactivity. You don't have to exercise, and honestly many people don't even have the time to exercise anymore. Coupled with the fact the capitalistic market needs to sell a ton of useless stuff, traumatizing people into thinking they look bad is one way to make money through pain, and it's very effective.

I should know, I'm 150 pounds and I have issues with weight.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Body Image

So you all are slaves to corporate advertising?

Git yersef a shack in the woods, and fergit about it.

It's your choice. Live as you choose, not as it is chosen for you to live.

Yes, it takes guts. Good luck.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Body Image

It made sense

If people didn't buy it, they wouldn't be selling it. People can opt out... if they wish.

By the way, just because I think it's interesting, there is now a big market in selling beauty products to men in the U.S.

For the record, how important is a nicely plucked beard or trimmed chest hair patch, and/or manfume (perfume for men, of course) to you?

Are we guys now being lied to, and becoming slaves to some mysterious corporations advertising?

I think you are. I see it a lot.

And marketing is a lot more than "if they wouldn't buy it, they wouldn't sell it." That's sort of the whole point of marketing...to get people to buy things they probably wouldn't normally look twice at. Marketing professionals use a whole slew of subtle techniques to do this and a lot of those play on psychology. Fear is a HUGE motivator in the beauty industry. Tell everyone that something is socially unacceptable and they'll be social outcasts if they don't fix it, and you have a best seller. Today, it's a lot less advertising and a lot more "editorial" content and product placement, but it's still the same idea.

Some good examples:
-Deodorant is actually textbook. Like, several different textbooks I had talked about how the product was basically invented and turned into a necessity. Over a hundred years ago, no one cared about body odor or sweating. To be honest, you don't sweat that much anyway (my bf doesn't wear deodorant unless he's playing sports and I don't wear antiperspirant and neither of us smells). A company developed a mixture of aluminum for something else, but figured out that it blocked sweat and patented it. It sort of lay dormant for a long time, but Bristol-Meyers bought it in 1931 and started aggressively marketing it. By the 1950s, you HAD to wear deodorant or be deemed socially unacceptable.
-Tooth whitening. GOD tooth whitening. I remember when I was growing up, no one cared how white your teeth were. Sometime between my late teens and early 20s, it seemed like everyone was worried that their teeth were too yellow. Then I moved here and realized that the rest of the world still doesn't care how white their teeth were. But Colgate and their competitors have done a pretty good job of convincing North Americans that natural colored teeth are a problem.

You can't tell me that it's just a matter of "someone has a great product and everyone buys it." Because if that's how you sold things, the marketing profession wouldn't exist.

And I agree that you have a choice. But if people don't speak up against it, things won't change. Personally, I try to not buy into it. I don't think you have to live in a shack in the woods, but you do have to see through a lot of BS and make choices based on your needs (your real needs, not what you might think you need) and what you really want. I do that, but I don't think a lot of people do. I don't think people are aware of how much they get lied to and how much choice they have in fixing the problem.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Body Image

Also, as far as living in a shack in the woods goes, I don't think it's that easy. We have surprisingly little freedom as far as leaving the status quo behind is concerned. Say you want to reject all commercial activities and live a self-sustaining life in a cabin in the middle of nowhere. You need money to buy the land, or you risk getting in some major trouble for squatting or trespassing. If you choose a different medium, like living in a squat house, being transient, or living on a commune, you'll still risk getting told you can't and are at risk of breaking all sorts of laws and rules. We don't have as much freedom as we think we do. Our society is incredibly intolerant to those who don't want to go along with the status quo.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Body Image

I agree. But how did you and I get that way though? I had a craptastic childhood. I should, by all accounts and stats, be on baby 4 or drugged out or a prostitute or stripper. How did we get a good self esteem? I have no idea how except through sheer force.

Absolute sheer force. My mom was thrilled to lose weight because of her chemotherapy, so I didn't exactly get raised with a great body image. But I got sick and damn tired of beating myself up over a fluke of genetics.

That doesn't mean you can't want to improve or change your body. I lift weights and I'd still like to stop eating food when I'm not hungry as an emotional balm, which would lead to losing some additional fat. It doesn't mean I don't like make up because I like my lips to be pink or dying my hair fun colors because colors are pretty.

It's just finally that I got sick of trying to be a square peg in a round hole. I have big fluffy hair. Deal with it. My skin is pale and freckled and I can't get a tan. Who cares? I'm stubbly, my neck is short, what does hating it accomplish? NOTHING.

I just got tired.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Body Image

So you all are slaves to corporate advertising?

Git yersef a shack in the woods, and fergit about it.

It's your choice. Live as you choose, not as it is chosen for you to live.

Yes, it takes guts. Good luck.

I can't afford a shack in the woods, and I honestly don't think my husband would survive in one.
I used to think I was pretty and cute and there are things about me I still think are, but mostly I am un-thrilled with me... There are deeper issues there, with depression and massive anxiety issues, and I can't decide whether it is in my head sometimes or not.


Can I just make one little suggestion? Anyone who believes marketing isn't a big deal, pick up a wedding dress issue of wedding magazine. These are the girls they have wearing these gowns, and these are the sizes they have of them. Being bigger than a 12 means paying $500 extra, minimum, for your gown, and they may not even make them in your size.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Body Image

Can I just make one little suggestion? Anyone who believes marketing isn't a big deal, pick up a wedding dress issue of wedding magazine. These are the girls they have wearing these gowns, and these are the sizes they have of them. Being bigger than a 12 means paying $500 extra, minimum, for your gown, and they may not even make them in your size.

Huh?

Wedding dresses run NOTORIOUSLY smaller than regular clothes. Though I was an 8/10 when I got married, my dress was a size 14...and the whole thing didn't even cost $500. It was off the rack...the clearance rack. It was a big fluffy princess dress too, clearly a "wedding" dress and not something else.



Look at what a giant size 14 cow I am...wait...I looked kick ass. See, this was the start of my "screw you society" era.

Designer overpriced garbage may be like that, but then you've already fallen for the marketing.

With rare exceptions, most brand name stuff is all about selling the brand, not the product. That's a whole other thing we've been cowed by.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Body Image

I pit the great God Pizza against the foul machinations of society's ideal image and just can't be bothered to put up with an ideal that would keep me from Pizza.

Pizza Protects!!!

Sorry, I'll be good now.

At the end of the day, my general experience is that individuals tend to worry more about their own appearance than the people around them do. Given that knowledge and given all the migraines society tends to suggest in the name of reaching idealized images, shrug see commentary about Pizza.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Body Image

I think you are. I see it a lot.

Better to say "some men are."

And marketing is a lot more than "if they wouldn't buy it, they wouldn't sell it." That's sort of the whole point of marketing...to get people to buy things they probably wouldn't normally look twice at. Marketing professionals use a whole slew of subtle techniques to do this and a lot of those play on psychology. Fear is a HUGE motivator in the beauty industry. Tell everyone that something is socially unacceptable and they'll be social outcasts if they don't fix it, and you have a best seller. Today, it's a lot less advertising and a lot more "editorial" content and product placement, but it's still the same idea.

Yes, that's the formula. There is more money spent on advertising research than on any other area of psychology. Doesn't mean one has to be a sucker for it.

You can't tell me that it's just a matter of "someone has a great product and everyone buys it." Because if that's how you sold things, the marketing profession wouldn't exist.

I would never tell you that.

And I agree that you have a choice. But if people don't speak up against it, things won't change.

I, personally, see no point in speaking up against it. If people are aware that they have a choice, they can make their choices. And, if they chose something that I, personally, think is silly, it is still their choice.

I don't think you have to live in a shack in the woods, but you do have to see through a lot of BS and make choices based on your needs (your real needs, not what you might think you need) and what you really want. I do that, but I don't think a lot of people do.

Yes, that's what one should do. Or not, as one chooses...

Also, as far as living in a shack in the woods goes, I don't think it's that easy. We have surprisingly little freedom as far as leaving the status quo behind is concerned.

Opt in, and you get some things easier, and some things are harder. Opt out, and some things are easier, and others are harder. People are not meat puppets without any ability to pick the course and direction of their lives.

[anunitu]

Re: Body Image

Rowan,I think you look smoken in the Pic..

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Body Image

As a lone wolf, opting out of a lot of that is fine. But for those who want a family, etc., the odds are improved by being attractive to as many potential partners as possible (to increase the odds of finding a good match).