"This deity doesn't exist" mentality

[Alienist]

I always thought it was not only strange but also offensive when people say "There's only one God" or "Only my gods exist". IT's because they act as if their deity exists and no one else's exist so if I was a Druid and I encountered a Christian or a Muslim and they say there's only one God I find it really rude, as if to imply that no one else's gods exist. I personally think almost all of the gods and goddesses exist, but there's only one group I worship or have more interest. I wouldn't go around saying "Only my Celtic gods exist and there are none like them. It's funny that they say their god is real and no other gods exist. Ok, so why would people waste so much time making rituals, temples and statues of gods and goddesses that don't exist and never did exist? What sense does that make? Has anyone else had encounters like that?

[monsno_leedra]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

For myself I have no issue with any God, god or goddess from any pantheon. Where I have issue's is when it's clearly a made up character that is being passed off as a god / goddess. Especially when it's a cartoon character and it's whole existence is derived from that cartoon story. Granted I acknowledge that a though form can become an egregore or construct and perhaps over time achieve a persona equal to a god / goddess. Yet that to me is not going to occur in any given life time based upon a cartoon. Perhaps based upon a book that has a dedicated following or portrays a dedicated and constructed religious / spiritual and cultural foundation like a lot of Lovecraft's works have become. Even the notion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has a large following and mindset behind its structure and format.

But where I have many issue's is the assumption that being pagan / occultist means I should or must accept anything and everything that a person wants to claim as a divine being or entity.

[Gleb]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

It's a complicated topic, for everyone might give you a different answer. Plus, there might be plenty of reasons why such things happen.
Perhaps, the Gods argue between themselves, just like humans; only on a higher level of argument. - Each says he / she is right.

Perhaps, they argue about their ideals of life, and don't realize that several options are acceptable.

[Ektor]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I don't think I have the authority to say which deities exists or not. Honestly, I think that as long people have their spiritual needs answered by their practices and don't try to force stuff over other people, their beliefs are valid. Deities show themselves to people as the people would accept them, in my opinion.

[MaskedOne]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I don't generally much about what do or don't pray to. I care what they do. Christians believing there is only one god doesn't really bother me more than atheists saying there is no real god or polytheists saying there a number of gods or people worshipping works of fiction. At the end of the day, you are defined by what you do not the name you swear by. If your actions are just then I'll set aside the fact that I might think your theology/philosophy is utterly silly bs. Tolerance requires that I be able to get along with you despite disagreement. In the absence of disagreement then dealing with you pleasant terms isn't tolerance, it's agreement. I don't agree with a host of Christian beliefs and have no intention of changing that. Why should I expect them to compromise tenets of their faith if I can't be arsed to do the same? I demand civility and honorable behavior from them and I'll extend some measure of the same. They can believe and disbelieve whatever they want and I fully intend to believe or disbelieve things of my choosing.

[Aeran]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

Even the notion of the Flying Spaghetti Monster has a large following and mindset behind its structure and format.

I wouldn't really say it has a following, it's just a joke put together to poke fun at religion.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I wouldn't really say it has a following, it's just a joke put together to poke fun at religion.

I agree it's a pun against religion. Yet by its usage and purpose it is more of an egregore today and has an energy attached to it due to its popularity and frequent usage. Something that many still utilize for its mockery. As such more of a god form that most cartoon characters that one seems to encounter within pagandom. Far more than any cartoon character except for something like Mickey Mouse or some of the Warner Brothers or Hanna Barbara figures.

[Hekla]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I don't really care if someone says "such and such god doesn't exist." Mainly because most Abrahamic monotheists are just brought up that way and never really explore their beliefs for themselves. That in itself isn't necessarily a fault, but because most monotheists are like that, they're going to believe quite blindly that their god is the only one. It's when they get aggressive about it and are willing to kill people for it that I then have a problem. So I'm with MaskedOne on the 'what you believe' vs 'what you do' mindset.

I haven't seen or heard of a hard polytheist claiming their pantheon is the only "real" pantheon, but I suppose they're out there. I just find it highly unlikely.

The only being I'll adamantly say doesn't exist is the popular Christian interpretation of Yahweh. A deity that's supposed to be omnicient, omnipresent, omnipotent and omnibenevolent and also perfect cannot do over half the stuff it has done in the old testament alone, and still be all those qualities.

[Medusa]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I'm an atheist. To me, none of your gods exist. It's my opinion. I don't have to prove they don't exist. But if you want to make a claim they do factually, then the proof is on you. And since I know that aint ever gonna happen, I just say you have yours and I have mine. It keeps the tears to a minimum.

[Gleb]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I don't want to go against any religion, but sometimes when I study the Torah in my school, I ask myself "What the hell is He (Yahweh) thinking?"
For instance, when the Israeli people left egypt, and began complaining after 3 days in the desert. They had a mind of slaves and of course had to find a reason to complain about.
And Yahweh just wanted to kill them for this.
Yes, they were complaining without good reason sometimes there, but their mind was doomed. They didn't have free will.

So what's the point in killing them? As a God, He should have known it.

- - - Updated - - -

But to be honest, some comments here made me change my view about the whole subject to the good side.

[Alienist]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I don't want to go against any religion, but sometimes when I study the Torah in my school, I ask myself "What the hell is He (Yahweh) thinking?"
For instance, when the Israeli people left egypt, and began complaining after 3 days in the desert. They had a mind of slaves and of course had to find a reason to complain about.
And Yahweh just wanted to kill them for this.
Yes, they were complaining without good reason sometimes there, but their mind was doomed. They didn't have free will.

So what's the point in killing them? As a God, He should have known it.

- - - Updated - - -

But to be honest, some comments here made me change my view about the whole subject to the good side.

Of course that's assuming that was actually God that did that. I sort of thought "God" was a title sort of like "Satan" We know this is a benevolent god and yet at the same time he's strict and cruel suggests that it's more than just one deity. Unless God has a split personality disorder, it's probably more than one god who has the title of God" Mostly monotheists in general, not just Abrahamic religious people, like Zoroastrians claim there's only one god and no other gods exist. I also encounter this problem with atheists. I think it's far fetched to assume there's no god, just because I don't see him. I don't see air, atoms or germs with my eyes but they exist. Also I don't think the gods would spend ALL of their time on Earth if their role is universal. I don't think humans just all of a sudden thought up of religion as a way to control others. As I said, if there really were no gods, would people honestly spend so much time and effort having rituals, magic, temples and statues to gods and goddesses that don't exist? What sense does that make? Of course there were deities on this planet. Maybe they moved on or maybe they "died" in a sense and can only be contacted through rituals, meditation ect. As Saint Padre Pio once said "Through the study of books one seeks God; by meditation one finds him".^[Maybe meditation for a period of time allows us to see them like microscopes allows us to see bacteria.

[Threshold]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I believe everyone has their own "contract" or relationship with the Universe.

I have no reason to believe that all throughout human history every religion was some evil person's tool to control others. I think there is a reason that different cultures have different deities and beliefs and after life experiences. There is SOMETHING there, I dont' know what it is, but not everyone is making up stories.

Just like someone here can tell me stories about their cousin, or long dead grand mother and I have no way of knowing if those persons exist now or ever did, so it is with other people's deities. Just because I never saw them, or interacted with them, doesn't mean you didn't.

I don't work with a deity. I have a religion that has no deity, that's my contract. That's my experience. That's my business.

Your mileage not only can vary, but it almost inevitably DOES vary.

I am also certain there are people who do lie, do make things up, do use religious beliefs as an opportunity to bully and control others. There are also delusional folks. Sometimes with good consequences, sometimes with harmful ones.

Some deities are thought forms. Some are metaphors or symbolic.

Interestingly I have never had a polytheist feel the need to prove the existence of their deities to me. Just an observation. I don't go around challenging the existence of other people's deities, but the very fact that I don't acknowledge and worship the deity of some monotheists is a challenge to them. (not all, just some. Many monotheists believe that their deity is only interested in those who it has called).

My take is that no deities interact with me. I've even tried to form relationships with some. Nothing happened. Doesn't mean they don't relate to others though.

[ThorsSon]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I also encounter this problem with atheists. I think it's far fetched to assume there's no god, just because I don't see him. I don't see air, atoms or germs with my eyes but they exist.

I'll grant that air can't be seen... sure... but it CAN be detected by our physical senses... for example, you can feel it... sometimes you can hear, smell and/or taste it... but, actually, air CAN be seen. That is why the sky is blue and space is black.

Germs can't be seen without a microscope... But, we CAN see them with the right tools.

Atoms can't even be seen that way... we can use a scanning electron microscope to construct a model of what an atom looks like... but that is only a model, since atoms are smaller than any visible wave length of light, and thus can't be seen, no matter how much magnification we use. Until the scanning electron microscope was invented, we had evidence that atoms existed. Theories were posited and tested. Those theories led to the harnessing of nuclear fission reactors. When the scanning electron microscope was invented, it gave us another way to test those theories... those theories have continued to hold up. The evidence keeps adding up in favor of atomic theory. The predictions made by atomic theory keep turning out to be valid. All of the evidence suggests that atoms exist.

The evidence heads the other direction for god(s).

As I said, if there really were no gods, would people honestly spend so much time and effort having rituals, magic, temples and statues to gods and goddesses that don't exist? What sense does that make?

People perform all kinds of rituals... even ones that contradict each other... all that means, is that people like rituals.
Magic? I haven't ever seen evidence that magic exists.
Temples? Same thing as rituals. We build "temples" for all kinds of things. In my home town, there is a museum for the local sandhills... it is basically a temple extolling the virtues of the sandhills... does that make the sandhills gods? In Lubbock, Texas, there is a "museum" for Buddy Holly... it is very much a temple/shrine to him... does that make Buddy Holly a god?
And statues? Statues have been made of all kinds of things. Sculptors sculpt. I have, on my desk, miniature statues of the USS Enterprise from Star Trek... a fictional vessel, of which MANY statues have been built. Writers write, painters paint, sculptor sculpt, and singers sing... and sometimes (often) their subject matter is fiction.

Furthermore... the writer/painter/sculptor/singer/etc might have believed that their subject matter was not fictitious... but that doesn't mean that I have to believe it. There STILL exist people who believe that the earth is flat... and they write/paint/sculpt/sing/etc things that they believe to be true, based on that premise. There STILL exist people who believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, and they write/paint/sculpt/sing/etc things that they believe to be true, based on that premise. There exist people who believe all sorts of silly things, and they write/paint/sculpt/sing/etc things that they believe to be true, based on those premises... I am not obligated to believe what they believe... nor am I obligated to refrain from laughing-at/being-angry-at what they believe.

I am free to believe what my experience has compelled me to believe, and you are afforded that same freedom.

None of us really "chooses" what we believe. We are molded by our life experiences. I have seen no evidence for god(s), nor any other supernatural claim that I couldn't explain in physical terms. You have had experienced things that cause you to believe. That is fine... but if you are offended that I do not believe that your gods exist, then it is on you to either a) convince me, or b) get over it.

If I tell you that I have an invisible pink unicorn in my garage, it is not your job to disprove my claim. If I need/want you to believe me, then it is my duty to prove it to you.

[Aeran]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

I am free to believe what my experience has compelled me to believe, and you are afforded that same freedom.

Which is what it boils down to. People believe what their experiences have led to them to. You're never going to change anyone's opinion on the subject by arguing with them about it.

There STILL exist people who believe that the earth is flat...

I'm fairly sure that that's a hoax.

[ThorsSon]

Re: "This deity doesn't exist" mentality

Which is what it boils down to. People believe what their experiences have led to them to. You're never going to change anyone's opinion on the subject by arguing with them about it.

You are right. BUT... while one might not convince the person with which one is arguing/debating, one might convince someone who is listening.

Additionally, over time, arguments/evidence accumulate, and a person CAN be persuaded. I recognize the irony in my use of the Bible to back my statement... but I think that 1 Corinthians 3:6 ("I have planted, Apollos watered") summarizes nicely. One might plant an idea, or one might water the seed that was planted... it might even require some cultivating and fertilizing.

You won't win someone over in one argument/debate... but it is worthwhile to present your ideas/thoughts.

I'm fairly sure that that's a hoax.

the Flat Earth Society may be a hoax. I've wondered that myself... BUT... not everyone on this earth has been blessed with a First World education. There are aboriginal people and impoverished people that have not been exposed to scientific education, and are unaware of the shape of the earth.