St. Patrick's Day

[thalassa]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Columbus day is outright offensive to Native Americans, though. They absolutely hate it.

Depends on who you ask. I have a branch of the family that is Navajo. I know white people more offended for Native Americans than my extended family members are.

Columbus was an ass, as Denarius said. But Abraham Lincoln was a bigot that stomped all over civil rights, and Martin Luther King hated gay people. And for the time period in which they were a part of...their attitudes were pretty much par for the course.

[Ektor]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Actually, Columbus was considered idiotic even by people of his time, the man was a moron.
I was reading some stuff from his travels and while many people involved in navigations on the 16th century were full of Renaissance mentality, Columbus wasn't so, his letters are very interesting to read.

[ThorsSon]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Christmas is the Catholic name given to Saturnalia, with Yule thrown in later, as a social lubricant.
Easter is the Catholic name given to EOstara for the same reason.
Valentine's Day... really?

Holidays are what they are. Aside from the occasional idiot that insists on "keeping Christ in Christmas" or "Saturn in Saturnalia," no one really cares where they began.

Actually, Columbus was considered idiotic even by people of his time, the man was a moron.
I was reading some stuff from his travels and while many people involved in navigations on the 16th century were full of Renaissance mentality, Columbus wasn't so, his letters are very interesting to read.

you said: "many people involved in navigations on the 16th century were full of Renaissance mentality, Columbus wasn't so"

You cannot judge a person by the mentalities and understandings of a full century later. Columbus lived in the 1400's (the 15th Century)... What people in the 16th Century did/thought/believed is of no consequence in a discussion of Columbus.

[Threshold]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Any day is what we make of it.

I treat cultural holidays differently than my HOLY days.

But I understand that it is important (holy) for some people to consciously NOT honor a particular day because that is how they must honor what it represents to them.

In some countries and cultures March 17 is not significant of anything, so they don't even think about it.

I am of Irish descent, as is my boyfriend, so it's our heritage to do something in honor of the day, like decorate the house with shamrocks and eat corned beef and cabbage.

My sister is an active Catholic, so she has a St Patrick statue and special prayers and gives out Mass cards (paying a donation to have Masses said in someone's honor, she did it for my boyfriend because his name is Patrick)

A lot of people use it as a day to get drunk and kiss random people. My boyfriend and I are both in substance abuse recovery sooooo....no drinks for us!

No group of people are blameless when it comes to oppressing or terrorizing someone. And no group has not suffered the same at the hands of another. Humanity is equal opportunity when it comes to how good or bad folks can behave. If I examined every person, culture, religion for it's track record, I'd never be able to celebrate anything I suppose.

[Heka]

Damn. I missed it. Not a single item of green was worn, not a single whiskey drunk. I suck.

[Dez]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Late to the party on this one, but is there any actual historical evidence of the snakes/pagans concept? I can't seem to find any and thought it was simply a "cute" story to explain why there have never been snakes in Ireland, that was picked up and turned into another "Burning Times" thing.

[Malflick]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Late to the party on this one, but is there any actual historical evidence of the snakes/pagans concept? I can't seem to find any and thought it was simply a "cute" story to explain why there have never been snakes in Ireland, that was picked up and turned into another "Burning Times" thing.

The link I posted earlier says what you suspect- there isn't any evidence of it. Paganism also persisted in Ireland far after St. Patrick's death anyways...

[Dez]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Oops, I must have missed that, Makflick, I'll take a look

[thalassa]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Oops, I must have missed that, Makflick, I'll take a look

Plus, you know...Ireland just doesn't have any native snake species, and never has, even before St. Patrick.

My great-grandmother was taught in school (in Ireland, as was a college professor of mine--I took Irish history from him) the snakes=Druids story...so its not a totally recent fabrication (I've seen estimates of the 7-8th century for the earliest records, though I'm not sure how accurate it is, since I've never seen the original record--heck, even the Wild Hunt post is a secondary (or tertiary) source), even if the outrage is pretty recent (and misplaced).

[anunitu]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

You have to remember the "Church" told many tales to frighten the general populace. Some stories about "Saints" were padded just a bit also. So not surprised that some stories might seem a bit farfetched.

[Dez]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

Very interesting thal! Thanks for tossing that out there too...pretty decent staying power for that, true or not, then...hmmm....

[Ektor]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

You have to remember the "Church" told many tales to frighten the general populace. Some stories about "Saints" were padded just a bit also. So not surprised that some stories might seem a bit farfetched.

Careful with that. The Medieval Church was far more likely to absorb elements of paganism in their doctrine than to try to "scare" the population. That modus operandi is more akin to what they used in the Modern Age. Most "medieval" practices we associate with the Catholic Church actually started in the late 15th/early 16th century.

[Larix]

Re: St. Patrick's Day

I just kinda go with the Green beer,and the Irish whiskey...What???,I am part Irish...and drinking is part of my heritage..:xD:::

That's the way I see it, too!

I enjoy a good Guinness on Saint Patrick's Day.

And as far as I now, Patrick did not drive out anybody from Ireland.

The Irish adopted the Christian belief - but many of the old Celtic traditions remained.

It was a relatively liberal change-over.

No reason to hate good old Patrick!