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    A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

    Ok. First I want to preface this with some words of warning. This is about bullying. And it's like abortion and your fave sports team. It can get heated. Mainly because there will be 3 general types of people who will reply. Those who have been bullied, those who have been the bullies and those who have no real experiences with the topic at hand. Please try and remember that when replying. Not everyone knows or understands or agrees with your view.

    So I was reading this typical story on bullying. The gist is that a few girls pretended to be friends with a boy who has autism. They bullied him into doing just some of the following:

    First gut reaction is to blame the girls and place the victim tag on the boy. This isn't what I want to discuss. I want to discuss what's mentioned later in the piece.

    So it could be that Michael was partly able to understand some bad judgement. Now this is a slippery slope from let's say..blaming victims. I don't want to do that. What I want to do is discuss what part a person who is bullied plays. When some are bullied into a dumb act, what part of the decision do they take responsibility for? I understand the need to fit in, the need to want friends, hey, the need to just be...cool. But there is a price to pay for those decisions. When do we put some of that on the person doing the act they were pushed in to? I understand we must protect the weaker humans of the earth. I understand we have compassion. But...I also respect people who are strong, brave and able to stand up for themselves. And I'll be very honest here. Even though I do reach my hand out to help others who are deemed weaker in one aspect to me *while they are stronger in others* I do end up giving them a bit of tough love advice in the end. Because in all honesty, we cannot control others in the world. We must control ourselves. And how we do so will affect how others treat us. Everyone will step on a doormat. Because that's what it is. A doormat. No one steps on a bomb with a sign that says I'm a bomb.

    This will come off as a very not nice opinion. But it's mine. And I'm strong enough to say it. And yes, I've been bullied when I was weak. And when I look back there is nothing I could have changed...except my own actions and reactions. I don't live the other person's life. I only live mine. It's not a matter of blaming for me. That focuses on another person. Something we cannot ever control. It's a matter of self responsibility. That's the only thing I can control.

    What say you?
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

    The article says he's autistic. That changes everything, starting with his perception of their intent/actions/honesty.
    sigpic
    Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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      #3
      Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

      Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
      The article says he's autistic. That changes everything, starting with his perception of their intent/actions/honesty.
      The article stated he more than likely had a mild form such as Aspergers. Which, of course inhibits his awareness of social interaction. This particular post just had me questioning what responsibility we take when handling bullies. Not necessarily talking about this particular situation. It just brought up an interesting topic to discuss. Didn't mean to say this kid. Should have made that clear. My bad.
      Satan is my spirit animal

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        #4
        Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

        Guess I'm one of the ones who doesn't have much experience with it! This stuff did not go on in my elementary school. The only "bullies" were the nuns.....Kids were simply not allowed to behave badly. At home, we were rarely alone with other kids. There was a little snide, verbal stuff by 5th grade or so, but nothing like what goes on today.
        By the time I got into public school, I made friends with a small group, and I guess the schools were so big, we didn't even know every single kid. Pre-internet/cell phones, one's every move was not recorded, which made a huge difference.

        My first day in public school, 2 weeks into 6th grade, a girl who sat in front of me in class approached me at recess and was giving me the lowdown on who was who. She pointed out a girl and said no one ever talks to her. I asked why, and was told she was weird. So, I went right up to her and introduced myself, shrugging off the "cool" girl. I wanted to make my own decision about her weirdness.

        Of course I didn't know it then, but that was a defining moment in my life, and one I'm damn proud of.
        sigpic
        Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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          #5
          Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

          I was bullied as a child and teenager. I never did anything about it unfortunately and I regret it. I think I was bullied partially because I was considered 'special.' I chose to stay behind with my sister who is 1 year younger than me. So from 6-12 grades we were together. Anyway, I think these girls were bullies nonetheless. This isn't a frigging game. When you hold a knife to someone's throat, you can hurt them. You don't consider it a game. Making a person walk on a half-frozen lake isn't a game either. It's cruel. The victim who has autism, may be confused as to what is bullying and what is not. I don't know for sure, but he needs to let the system charge them.
          Anubisa

          Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

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            #6
            Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

            I was bullied when I was in the 5th grade. Mostly because I was a fatty girl. I had been skinny as a twig before that. But that was because I didn't live with my mother. She was in the state mental hospital. And though family members tried to feed me... I was a sullen child. When she came out and lived with my father and I, she introduced me to momma's chorizo con papa burritos for school lunches! And before you knew it, I was happily a fat little mexican girl eating high off the hog.

            But I remember writing a lot. I had friends, sure. But I also liked to play alone with my cats. And I also remember writing this: I am a sad girl because I am a fat girl. Yeah. That hurt. My father never babied me. He taught me to be inquisitive and speak what was on my mind.

            Years later in high school, we had a 'friend' of the little inner circle of friends I had. She was in our Choir class. And she smelled. Bad. Bad hygiene. People made fun of her. I eventually bought her a Christmas gift of scented soaps. To sort of help her along.

            She stole my family's grocery money out of my purse.

            Years later I found her on fb. And she found God.

            Good for her. But I'll never trust that stealing stinking bitch again.

            I digress..Or do I?
            Satan is my spirit animal

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              #7
              Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

              Now, we don't know how severely the boy's autism impairs his social judgement. Maybe he is partially to blame for returning to the situation again and again. However, that in no way means that he deserved to be put in physical danger and treated cruelly. Someone having low self confidence does not make them a bad person who ought to be mistreated. Regardless of why he kept going back, those girls have no excuse for their behavior. They need to know that what they did was not okay. If that means punishment, then so be it.

              I'm not saying that individuals who find themselves in these sorts of situations should not find the empowerment to get the hell out, I'm just saying that the predominate blame definitely lies on the girls, and he absolutely did not deserve that kind of abuse.

              This reminds me of story from my childhood. There was a kid who lived in our neighborhood. He had some sort of mental syndrome and was clearly cognitively challenged. I remember I used to hang out with a group of girls who would always invite him along to our adventures. I hated it when they went to get him because they always wound up teasing him until he broke down. Things never got to the point of a knife to his throat, but goddamn, they were mean. I would always try to stop them and stand up for him, but it was 3 against 1. I can't even count how many times they abandoned us and I had to walk the poor guy home as he cried. Now in this case, he was definitely not capable of discerning that these were not good people to keep seeing. Looking back, I really wish that I had alerted his parents of the situation.

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                #8
                Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                the boy has autism and they arent the best judges of intent. those girls more than likely new he was disabled and went about this anyway . ive got a girl in my class in high school and she is a horrible judge of intent and constently gets picked on by alot of people of caurse she doesnt know this she thinks there just playing and its all for fun, and as for the boy having some judgement i dont think its enough to tell the diffrence which should be evedent through out the story , i think those girls should be put away for along time for there actions cause it is wrong to pick on or bully anyone for any reason . i had a guy bully me in my sixth grade year for being girly , and i also have been on the other side of the fence for bullying a kid mainly do to us both haveing anger issues mine were a bit more severe . there isnt a day that goes by that i dont regret my actions . that is why i think these girls need punishment cause ive been on both sides of the fence and also spectated bullying , these girls didnt just get into an argument and then blow up into a war like i did they went in knowing full well what they were doing
                Knowledge is the key to eternity. Not bowing before a deity not grovling at the feet of a messiah. Knowledge is power beyond mesure - satanic witch

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                  #9
                  Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                  I was terminally bullied as a kid - mostly because (I think) I lived far enough away from school that I was out of touch. The kids that were able to do sports and after school stuff had more time to interact with each other. After that, who knows? I was pretty chatty, and alot of people thought I was obnoxious (surprise surprise) so I got picked on quite a bit.

                  Honestly, that's a big part of the reason why I look the way that I do. I've found that if I look scary enough, most people will just stay the fuck away from me (my preferred level of interaction). It helps that I like myself

                  But I was never bullied on that level - nowhere even close. I more or less made myself absent from where my bullies were, so minimizing my contact prevented me from getting the brunt of it. Oh, and there were always people weaker than myself...as much as it sucks to say so, they were a pretty common distraction. I could keep my head down and more or less fly under the radar. By High School I was declared "weird" and people just stayed the hell away from me - again, saved me a whole lot of turmoil.

                  My problem is that I'm a completely nonviolent person, so any bluff when called, left me not knowing what to do. I'm completely baffled by anything other than "fighting for my life". I understand that at least...the rest of it just confuses me. I know that bullies exist - and I'm fortunate to have avoided them for the most part.

                  That story is awful. Children are monsters.

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                    #10
                    Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                    Urk..... This one is an awkward thing for me.... My little brother has Aspergers, and he is my little brother, and growing up I did not really get that he was actually different, not until I was much older (middle to high school) and I was really mean and bullying to my brother growing up, it was easy, he was always there and could never tell that I was lying. I had him convinced that he was adopted, to the point that he did not believe my mother when she told him that he wasn't. As it got older I recognized that what I was doing was bullying, and I stopped, I had too, because I noticed other people bullying him too. But he didn't notice it all of the time. He didn't understand the sarcasm, or the nature or intent of what was being said to him. And going through puberty was hard for him, because no one would tell him about anything, I think I was the one who even explained things about sexuality, because no one thought he would understand it, so no one told him about it... So the way he got bullied was different, because his reactions would nEver be those of another person, he was unpredictable, he had a temper, and he would not make the best flight decisions if that was the response that kicked in.
                    Eventually I had to step in, it was inevitable that if something was going on, he was not capable of making people stop.

                    Maybe be this was a bad bullying example, but the kid in the example, could not have been looked at in the same light as someone without that disability. Maybe I am a better example, I was bullied throughout middle and high school. (About when I realized that was what I was doing to my little brother) I was just the weird kid. Nothing I said managed to be the right thing, nothing I wore was cool enough, and I was odd... Just odd I suppose, I never really had great self esteem and that could not have helped. I honestly never understood why I was bullied except that I was different, I wasn't particularly ugly, and I had many similar interests as many of the "cool" people. I think to an extent I have to agree with medusa, if you let yourself be a door mat, people will treat you like one, but I think there is more to it than that, I didn't just let people bully me, I fought back, and not only did that land me in trouble with the school, it just made the bullies worse.

                    Some people just want to bully, or need to, I don't know any of the psychology, but some people don't have the right tools to deal with life and some of us don't learn from experience well, so some people bully, (although the bit with the knives smacks of some serious effed up stuff) and some people get bulled, and some people do both, people are people, and they are just mini people as kids....
                    http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                    But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                    ~Jim Butcher

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                      #11
                      Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                      Bullying is a vestige of barbarism that was somehow allowed to continue unhindered - even with some social approval - until fairly recently.

                      Fact is, if you claim to have a civilized society, you have to protect the weakest members of said society. Bullying does not toughen kids up, it damages them...And bullies that go unpunished sometimes turn into worse things. Spousal abusers, child abusers, and worse.

                      And hell, it's not like bullying stops at childhood. There are plenty of adult bullies, both in a physical and a societal/professional sense.

                      You get the society you put up with.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      I'd like to add that people who victimize the mentally ill (autistic, etc) are a particularly low form of pond life.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      Originally posted by Roknrol View Post
                      My problem is that I'm a completely nonviolent person,
                      That's not a problem, it's a virtue.

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                        #12
                        Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                        I think everyone agrees bullying is bad. What I want to know is what can we do from the other side to prevent it, and to deal with it. I get the bully part: Teach your kid, your spouse, you...to not be an asshole. But what can the potential 'victim' do to keep this from happening or to deal with it.
                        Satan is my spirit animal

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                          #13
                          Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                          I think everyone agrees bullying is bad. What I want to know is what can we do from the other side to prevent it, and to deal with it. I get the bully part: Teach your kid, your spouse, you...to not be an asshole. But what can the potential 'victim' do to keep this from happening or to deal with it.
                          Yeah, as one who was chronically bullied, all through school, I completely understand where you stand on trying to discuss the so-called victim, instead of how bad bullies are, and whatnot. It's an intriguing subject, in my opinion, and one that I've thought about before. Probably talked about, around PF here at some point or another.

                          First, the history. It isn't enough to say that the bullies stopped bullying me before my senior year, in high school. As a small kid, is was just simply an easy target. Weak and not well-liked. The bullying started in kindergarten and continued until a little over halfway through my junior year. I'll forgo the details of most of my treatment. But as the ages progressed, so did the intensity. In my junior year, it came to a bloody end. I had my nose broken. I was picked up by my hands and feet and thrown into a bonfire. I was beaten and wound up with, luckily, just the nose and a few ribs broke.

                          Then I changed my own behavior. "I went insane," basically. I took all the fun out of bullying me, by simply incorporating a generous amount of self abuse and perfecting my "I don't give a fuck" attitude. The next time some big, tall mo********er moved to pick me up and throw me, I posed a suggestion. "Throw me into the lockers, dude!" Then, I'd be slammed hard into the lockers, make a pretty loud scream, in the process, and fall to the floor with a melodramatic flair, tumble neatly back up onto my feet and say, "do it again, man. That was fuckin' GREAT!"

                          Pretty much the last straw, for the bullies was when one so-called friend cold-cocked me as I rounded a corner in the unofficial smoking area. I stopped. Looked at the guy. (he was arms up, ready to fight.) In a condescending tone, I said, "Really?" (like that's the best you can do???) Turned and walked back the way I came. No effect shown, whatsoever, even though my jaw hurt like hell. That was the last time anyone tried to pick on me. I somehow took all the wind out of their sails.

                          It also helped that I had a job and had bought a leather jacket, personalized a jean jacket vest to wear over the top of it, and developed a major reputation for being nothing short than freaky insane. Like, surfing on the top of a student's car, out in front of the school, DURING class, at about 45 mph. And jumped off, in high dive fashion. Or threw half a peeled orange at one of our "abusive hall monitors" (he had a fondness for grabbing kids by the ear, to drag them to the ass't principal's office) and hit the bastard in the side of his head, right above his ear. (It became known as The Day Chain Juiced Sgt. Cornhole.)

                          So, my own fun was increased by both intensity and anything that produced adrenaline. Odd as it may sound, it all corresponded with my quitting of drugs. I found a new high, maybe? I dunno. That's the history, anyway, of my being bullied in school.



                          I tend to think that a victim reduces the amount of sympathy they should get in direct proportion to the amount of abuse they continue to accept. A *willing* victim is not a victim.

                          I don't really give a flying fig that the story, this thread started out with, is about an autistic kid. It's about a kid. And this kid made excuses for his bullies. He rationalized away the abuse he had been receiving. And went back for more, allowing these girls to continue.

                          Sure, he may have a messed up socialization skill. He may not understand, accurately, the repercussions of his choices. But if he's making excuses for them, so that he can fit in, or to be close to girls, or for whatever reason, he is displaying a rationale, however askew, that could equally defend his self preservation, flight or fight, reptilian-level behavior, instead. The simple fact that he makes an argument defending the girls proves that he knows what they did was flat wrong. I had some modicum of sympathy for the kid. It wasn't much. It disappeared rather quickly.



                          The girls, on the other hand... my contempt knows NO bounds.




                          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                          "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                          "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                          "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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                            #14
                            Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                            I don't think you have to be autistic (at any level) in order to misinterpret. I mean look at victims of domestic abuse who refuse to leave their tormentors, claiming instead 'He/She loves me really.'

                            I think somewhere we have to draw the line and say, 'You know what? That was really mean. We don't do that sort of thing. Feet. Door. Feck off.'
                            (I've noticed I'm saying 'feck' a lot lately. Probably mr Penry's influence.)
                            www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                            Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                              #15
                              Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

                              We have some inherent belief, or wish, that people are basically good, and that if someone's friendly, they're sincere. If someone says they love us, we don't expect them to secretly be after our money. Etc.

                              Personally, I believe those with mild Asperger's, etc. are NOT disabled, but rather, EVOLVED past that creepy evilness of lying, cheating, bullying, and misleading others. Honesty and trustworthiness are gifts, hence those with baser qualities want to suppress them.

                              I guess my point is it's the same old good vs. evil theme that pervades humanity.

                              Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                              But what can the potential 'victim' do to keep this from happening or to deal with it.
                              Conceal Carry! For the rest of us, the rewards for kindness need to be higher than the rewards for meanness, whether those rewards are societal, spiritual, parental, internal, whatever.....
                              sigpic
                              Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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