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Thread: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

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    Supporter kijani's Avatar
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    The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    [glow=red,2,300]Complete with glitter![/glow]

    Oh yeah. I went there.

    Anyways, a lot of us are well aware of how hard it is to be in the (broom) closet with our friends and families. It is, after all, difficult to explain something which much of the modern media has been skewing in the wrong direction since the age of the silver screen and before. In any case, stuff happens, and all of us are in varying stages of that process. Some of us don't tell our families. Some do. We all live different lifestyles and have different ways of doing things. We also know that no matter what you do around here, what do we always say? If you ask five Pagans a question, you're going to get six different answers. It's true. It's practically a statistic.

    Now, I've started this thread because I have over the past several years spoken to a number of people who not only struggle with the issue of their religious identity, but the issue of their sexual one as well. Why do I think something like this is important? Because I think that who you are is going to have an effect on your spirituality and your religious practices in some form or another, consciously or otherwise.

    I wanted to start this thread as a question/answer/advice area for anyone who may be struggling with an issue like this. I saw a few mentions about it on the old board, but never got a chance to get this started. I've definitely been in that spot before where I've really struggled with my identity and how to represent myself and make things mesh, and if anyone has questions (or is comfortable enough to share their own experiences), I'll answer as much as I can and help you find resources for anything that I can't.


    ((A note to my fellow Mods: It's 5am, and I couldn't decide whether to put this in the family and relationships area or here, so if you think it needs a move, go ahead. <3))
    It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
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    Bronze Member magusphredde's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    Yeah ... I get to be first to post in here ... 8)


    First off ... Been there .. Tried that ... I was always told as a child that I shouldn't say I didn't like something if I hadn't tried it first ... So I did way back in my younger years ... Now I have a better working knowledge in order to talk to others with ... And I have a good basis for my preferences ...

    We have something in common ... We both like females ... ;D

    Ok ... Serious time ... Are you gay or bi? ... I find a lot of people don't seem to differentiate between the two when talking about females ... They seem to think that a guy can like just guys but a female can't like just females ...


    I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them ... John Bernard Books


    Indian Chief 'Two Eagles' was asked by a white government official; "You have observed the white man for 90 years. You've seen his wars and his technological advances. You've seen his progress, and the damage he's done."

    The Chief nodded in agreement.

    The official continued; "Considering all these events, in your opinion, where did the white man go wrong?"

    The Chief stared at the government official for over a minute and then calmly replied.. "When white man find land, Indians running it, no taxes, no debt, plenty buffalo, plenty beaver, clean water. Women did all the work, Medicine Man free. Indian man spend all day hunting and fishing; all night having sex."

    Then the chief leaned back and smiled; "Only white man dumb enough to think he could improve system like that."




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    Kick Ass Little Crow Corvus's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    I totally understand what you are talking about. Im out of the broom closet, and out of the other closet (to everyone except my direct family, save for my sister) I hate it. Its so awful to have to hide part of yourself. It took such a load off to tell my friends and sister but I still hate haveing to hide from my homophobic dad/brother. Everyone was fine when I said I was a pagan, even when they thought I worshipped demons. But if I say im gay my dad would grab his 22 and someone would be scrubbing me off the walls (im not exagerateing he said something similar when I was younger). I have supportive friends and a great boyfriend, but I hate to hide. Im afraid of him, and im afraid he'll find out. My friends slip up all the time, I think he knows but he's in denial. If he dosent kill me, he would probably kill himself. My sister says if something does go wrong I can come live with her and her mom. I'd just like to know if you have any advice, he hasn't actually done anything yet.

    Another question: do you feel that female-female pairings are more accepted than male-male ones? I always hear people (my brother and father for example) that say they are fine with bi/lesbien girls but are disgusted by bi/gay guys. Im not sure if this is true in your experences.
    世の中に潜み落下した「アレ」はねえか? 誰が書き換える 世界の汚れは?
    Do you have 'that' which lies dormant within society? Who can overwrite it, the filth in the world?


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    Sr. Member PharaohKatt's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    I'm also not straight (pansexual) so I'm happy to contribute to this thread, if you want the help.

    [quote author=Corvus link=topic=948.msg17320#msg17320 date=1290729075]
    Another question: do you feel that female-female pairings are more accepted than male-male ones? I always hear people (my brother and father for example) that say they are fine with bi/lesbien girls but are disgusted by bi/gay guys. Im not sure if this is true in your experences.
    [/quote]

    I find that a lot of the guys who express this belief are more about "huur I wanna hit that! Durr, girl on girl is hot" than actual acceptance.

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    Supporter kijani's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    Ok ... Serious time ... Are you gay or bi? ... I find a lot of people don't seem to differentiate between the two when talking about females ... They seem to think that a guy can like just guys but a female can't like just females ...
    I am gay. I tried dating guys in high school and it just... It never worked out and it never felt right. I figured out that I was gay a couple years ago, and I was in denial myself for a long time. Those of you that know my story know how (most) of my family reacted to the news that I wasn't Christian. For the longest time, I had trouble letting myself be happy, because I kept telling myself 'Think of how they reacted when I told them I wasn't Christian. This would kill them. Maybe I can hide it. Or fight it. Or change it.' When I got to college, I met a lot of people who became very good friends who were out and proud. As I said, I was even dating an amazing girl for a while. She held my hand when I called my mother to tell her we were dating. My mother was the only one who said she was okay with it. I'm out now...to everyone, but it's hard. Most of my family doesn't talk to me anymore, and when they do, they don't have a lot nice to say. Even my mother, who says she's okay with it, is still convinced that it is nothing more than a choice that I can change. She thinks because I didn't come out until I was 21 that I just woke up one day and decided 'hey I'm gay'. It doesn't work like that, but the big hurdle is getting people to understand that. I've had a lot of guys who have tried to tell me 'you just haven't found the right guy-- I could turn you straight'. When I was still trying to fight it/hide it, I did try being with a man. It grossed me out. I just couldn't do it.

    You're right though. A lot of people--particularly straight males--don't think that a female can like just females. It all usually goes back to that whole 'you haven't found the right guy blah blah' thing.

    [quote author=Corvus link=topic=948.msg17320#msg17320 date=1290729075]
    I totally understand what you are talking about. Im out of the broom closet, and out of the other closet (to everyone except my direct family, save for my sister) I hate it. Its so awful to have to hide part of yourself. It took such a load off to tell my friends and sister but I still hate haveing to hide from my homophobic dad/brother. Everyone was fine when I said I was a pagan, even when they thought I worshipped demons. But if I say im gay my dad would grab his 22 and someone would be scrubbing me off the walls (im not exagerateing he said something similar when I was younger). I have supportive friends and a great boyfriend, but I hate to hide. Im afraid of him, and im afraid he'll find out. My friends slip up all the time, I think he knows but he's in denial. If he dosent kill me, he would probably kill himself. My sister says if something does go wrong I can come live with her and her mom. I'd just like to know if you have any advice, he hasn't actually done anything yet.
    [/quote]

    I'm sorry you're going through something like that, and I hope nothing like that ever happens. My new stepfather has made similar comments to me a few times (he also can not fathom the fact that I'm not Christian, so add to that the fact that I am gay and he's not really been too kind about it). I've been staying with my brother for about three weeks because my stepfather really bothers me. Unfortunately, there's a big generation gap when it comes to people our parents' ages and people like us, so it's really hard to get some people to fathom things like this when they were raised in a generation when a lot of people either didn't admit to these kinds of issues or pretended they didn't exist entirely. There are a lot of movements like It Gets Better and the Trevor Project and related things that are trying to raise awareness about things like this, but it's hard. My suggestion to you is if you're scared, just keep doing what you're doing. I know it sucks to hide, but you also have to keep your personal safety as your number one concern. If it gets worse or if you feel like you really need help, there are a few resources out there that might be able to help you out. Some of them are age or area-specific, but there's some really good stuff out there. I can link you to a few if you'd like.

    Another question: do you feel that female-female pairings are more accepted than male-male ones? I always hear people (my brother and father for example) that say they are fine with bi/lesbien girls but are disgusted by bi/gay guys. Im not sure if this is true in your experences.
    Yes. I feel that this is very true in my experience. Truthfully, I think the media (oh yes--the same institution that has been bastardizing Pagan beliefs since the dawn of time) could take a lot of blame for that. For example, Brittany Spears can kiss Madonna (or whoever it was she was locking lips with) and it's fine, but Adam Lambert locks lips with his bassist at the '09 AMA's and all hell breaks loose. Is it right? Hell no. However, it's this right here--

    [quote author=PharaohKatt link=topic=948.msg17326#msg17326 date=1290732126]
    I find that a lot of the guys who express this belief are more about "huur I wanna hit that! Durr, girl on girl is hot" than actual acceptance.
    [/quote]

    --is something that I've found to be very true. The media latches on to things like this, and it's just more accepted. Things have started to shift a little bit and I've noticed that the media is trying to be more inclusive of everyone, but it's another one of those things that I think is going to take a while to change. Unfortunately, media tends to focus on the extremes when representing outlying groups like non-Christians and gays, so things like this can be frustrating.
    It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
    -Adam Lambert


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    Kick Ass Little Crow Corvus's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    Thanks for the advice, could you please link me some of those sites please?
    世の中に潜み落下した「アレ」はねえか? 誰が書き換える 世界の汚れは?
    Do you have 'that' which lies dormant within society? Who can overwrite it, the filth in the world?


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    Sr. Member CttCJim's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    [quote author=PharaohKatt link=topic=948.msg17326#msg17326 date=1290732126]
    I find that a lot of the guys who express this belief are more about "huur I wanna hit that! Durr, girl on girl is hot" than actual acceptance.
    [/quote]

    Such a ridiculous standpoint, if you ask me. As a rational straight man (my wife insists I'm not 100% straight, but for practical purposes let's just accept it), my feeling is this: "Hey, she's hot. Hey, she's hot too. I'd love to be with one of... oh wait, they're... nope, they're good. they don't need me."
    I like naked ladies as much as the next guy, but I prefer there to be a fantasy in which I am involved. And don't get me started on the impracticality of trying to please two women at the same time.

    But this thread isn't about what I think of popular fetishes. Congrats to those out of closets and good luck to those cracking the door. If things get rough, you can always some to Canada, where nobody much cares, or the UK where, if TV is any indication, it seems everyone is assumed bi until otherwise proven.

    One thing I sometimes wonder about is gay Wiccans. I know the God/Goddess creation myth, and sex as an analogous emulation thereof, is important to some branches of Wicca. Is this ever difficult to reconcile for a gay Wiccan? Or is it a case of "I am how Deity made me, and I'm okay with that"?
    Be Excellent to each other - or something will Happen to you.

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    Kick Ass Little Crow Corvus's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    Gerald gardener (founder of modern wicca) said that homosexuals were cursed by the god and goddess. He was also a noted homophobe.
    世の中に潜み落下した「アレ」はねえか? 誰が書き換える 世界の汚れは?
    Do you have 'that' which lies dormant within society? Who can overwrite it, the filth in the world?


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    Supporter kijani's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    [quote author=Corvus link=topic=948.msg17351#msg17351 date=1290739991]
    Thanks for the advice, could you please link me some of those sites please?
    [/quote]

    Sure thing, hun. I'll post the links here so that they're here for everyone.


    http://www.nyacyouth.org/resources/lgbtqyouth.php

    http://www.thetrevorproject.org/youth/lifeline - This is the youth resources page on the Trevor Project's official website. The site itself has a lot of information, and the NYAC website I linked above talks about them a lot as well. Trevor Project's website has a resource search engine that you can browse by state, county, keyword, etc. Below are some of the resources listed for the state of New York (I saw it in your profile, so I hope you don't mind):

    *Gay and Lesbian Youth Services of Western New York, Inc: http://www.icarol.info/ResultDetails...encynum=358705 --> This says it's for Western NY, but it looks like a really good resource.

    *Capital District Gay/Lesbian Community Council --> http://www.icarol.info/ResultDetails...gencynum=14225 --> This one is located in Albany, which google maps says is about 20 minutes from you. This place has support groups and programs for all ages. They also host events and educational programs.

    This website here: http://www.alexsanchez.com/Gay_Youth_Resources.htm may also prove helpful. It has links for LGBT youth, communicating with other LGBT youth, teen sexuality and college scholarships, etc.

    And since you mentioned issues with your family:

    *PFLAG (Parents, Families, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays)
    202-467-8180
    www.pflag.org


    Witchvox.com is a website that you might want to look into if you haven't already as well. After you register, it lists resources based on city/state as well. You may be able to find youth and lgbt groups on there. Witchvox usually includes some form of contact information for the resources that it lists.



    I hope that some of these help.
    [quote author=CttCJim link=topic=948.msg17410#msg17410 date=1290751183]
    One thing I sometimes wonder about is gay Wiccans. I know the God/Goddess creation myth, and sex as an analogous emulation thereof, is important to some branches of Wicca. Is this ever difficult to reconcile for a gay Wiccan? Or is it a case of "I am how Deity made me, and I'm okay with that"?
    [/quote]

    [quote author=Corvus link=topic=948.msg17414#msg17414 date=1290751960]
    Gerald gardener (founder of modern wicca) said that homosexuals were cursed by the god and goddess. He was also a noted homophobe.
    [/quote]

    That is true. And unfortunate. However, there are LGBTQ people in every walk of life---Christianity, Islam...just about anything you can think of. It really depends on the community. Opinions will vary depending on not only the religious community, but literally the very people there. A friend of mine is a gay Catholic. His sister is a nun and his father is a Deacon at his church. In another church even in the same city, my friend may face a lot more problems than in the church he goes to. On the whole, I've found most nature-based religions to be more accepting of people of differing lifestyles, but there are exceptions in every walk of life. Where we usually run into issues is trying to figure out just how safe A, B, C, or D might be, because you never really know how some people will react or what their views might be.
    It's a really, really cool thing, to be able to show people that you can be yourself, and you should be proud of yourself, and you should own who you are and what you're about, and never make apologies for it.
    -Adam Lambert


    Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools

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    Kick Ass Little Crow Corvus's Avatar
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    Re: The Ask a (Gay) Pagan Thread!

    Thanks kijani ;D I already know about witches vox a friend told me about it after the nyc samhein meet. *bookmark ill go through them later, as for now im sleepy. Corvus logging off
    世の中に潜み落下した「アレ」はねえか? 誰が書き換える 世界の汚れは?
    Do you have 'that' which lies dormant within society? Who can overwrite it, the filth in the world?


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