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Edda Discussion - H

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    #31
    Re: Edda Discussion - H

    Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
    Post by: Thjoth on November 23, 2009, 12:47:03 AM

    151
    A fifth I know, if I see from afar
    An arrow fly 'gainst the folk;
    It flies not so swift that I stop it not,
    If ever my eyes behold it.


    152
    A sixth I know, if harm one seeks
    With a sapling's roots to send me;
    The hero himself who wreaks his hate
    Shall taste the ill before I.


    153
    A seventh I know, if I see in flames
    The hall over my comrades' heads;
    It burns not so wide that I will not quench it,
    I know that song to sing.


    154
    An eighth I know, that is to all
    Of greatest good to learn;
    When hatred grows among heroes' sons,
    I soon can set it right.


    155
    A ninth I know, if need there comes
    To shelter my ship on the flood;
    The wind I calm upon the waves,
    And the sea I put to sleep
    .
    [hr]

    Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
    Post by: Maythe on November 23, 2009, 12:47:41 PM

    Quote
    151
    A sixth I know, if harm one seeks
    With a sapling's roots to send me;
    What's all that about? It sounds like he knows how to turn a curse, but what about the saplings roots?
    [hr]

    Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
    Post by: Crimson Horizons on November 23, 2009, 07:09:55 PM
    [hr]

    Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
    Post by: Thjoth on November 23, 2009, 11:31:43 PM


    Yeah, no clue here either. It's probably in reference to either a poison (there are a number of poisonous roots) or some kind of ritual curse, but the only ritual curse I can think of is a Nidstang, and that doesn't involve a sapling's roots (just a horse's severed head, a sharp pole, runic inscriptions and pure fury).

    "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

    "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Edda Discussion - H

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Thjoth on December 04, 2009, 01:16:36 AM


      Here's Tuesday's verses, sorry folks, final exams are next week so I've been a bit focused elsewhere...

      156
      A tenth I know, what time I see
      House-riders flying on high;
      So can I work that wildly they go,
      Showing their true shapes,
      Hence to their own homes.


      157
      An eleventh I know, if needs I must lead
      To the fight my long-loved friends;
      I sing in the shields, and in strength they go
      Whole to the field of fight,
      Whole from the field of fight,
      And whole they come thence home.


      158
      A twelfth I know, if high on a tree
      I see a hanged man swing; So do I write and color the runes
      That forth he fares,
      And to me talks.


      159
      A thirteenth I know, if a thane full young
      With water I sprinkle well;
      He shall not fall, though he fares mid the host,
      Nor sink beneath the swords.


      160
      A fourteenth I know, if fain I would name
      To men the mighty gods;
      All know I well of the gods and elves,
      Few be the fools know this.

      [hr]

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Fenrir on December 04, 2009, 06:36:39 AM

      Quote
      A twelfth I know, if high on a tree
      I see a hanged man swing; So do I write and color the runes
      That forth he fares,
      And to me talks.
      Is this anything to do with the myth of Odin hanging from a tree for 9 days and discovering the runes during the ordeal?
      [hr]

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Maythe on December 04, 2009, 12:37:02 PM


      Fenrir - If you read the previous page or so you'll find that it is, this being the section of Havamal about Odin's runes. Starts verse 139.

      Thjoth - good luck with the exams

      156 and 160 are a bit confusing. I'm assuming 156 refers to 'witches' or perhaps I should say 'malevolent magical practitioners'.
      [hr]

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Fenrir on December 04, 2009, 03:29:51 PM


      Ah silly me for not reading the rest of the thread first :-X
      [hr]

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Thjoth on December 04, 2009, 06:17:58 PM


      It could be a combination of being self-referential (in how Odin obtained the Runes) and also more literal. Remember how in Voluspa, Odin basically summed the Volva back from the dead to ask her questions? This could be the song/chant that was used for that purpose.

      Oh, and here are those ones you said were confusing from Chisholm:


      I know a tenth. If I see ghost-riders
      sporting in the sky, I can work it
      that the wild ones fare away.
      So their shapes (ham) shall fare home,
      so their spirits fare home.

      ---------

      I know a fourteenth: If I talk of the gods
      before the folk, I can speak of Ases
      and elves. Few of the unlearned
      know these things.


      I'm not really sure what he's getting at with the fourteenth song either. As for the tenth, maybe it's the Wild Hunt?
      [hr]

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Crimson Horizons on December 04, 2009, 07:47:59 PM


      Among many of our ancestors, there was a belief that people could use their haminja to travel by turning into a bird or some other animal. I believe that 156 refers to that, and to a possible way to detect said people. For more on that topic, I recommend Scandinavian Folk Belief and Legend, put together by Reimund Kvideland and Henning K. Sehmsdorf.
      [hr]

      Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
      Post by: Maythe on December 05, 2009, 05:29:50 AM


      Sounds like an interesting book. My wish list is huge! :P
      "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

      "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Edda Discussion - H

        Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
        Post by: Thjoth on December 07, 2009, 05:18:00 PM


        And this post concludes our discussion of the Words of Odin.




        I don't think these really require a breakdown, although I could be wrong. Feel free to continue posting, but this concludes all of our fresh material for the Havamal!

        I, personally, can't believe it's over. I took over posting this regularly on May 08, and this conclusion is December 07, so almost exactly 7 months. I hope you guys got as much out of it as I did!
        [hr]

        Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
        Post by: Fenrir on December 07, 2009, 05:22:19 PM


        I'm sad that I missed this while it was going on, but I'm definitely going to use this discussion if I ever struggle to understand any of Havamal. Hails!
        [hr]

        Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
        Post by: Thjoth on December 07, 2009, 05:54:17 PM


        Don't be afraid to wade in in the middle next time, I'd like our discussions to be a bit more active, really, even if it just turns into one bigass fight
        [hr]

        Title: Re: Havamal Discussion
        Post by: Maythe on December 08, 2009, 12:30:20 PM


        Thanks Thjoth
        "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

        "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

        Comment


          #34
          "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

          "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Edda Discussion - H

            Reading old Edda right now in Estonian.
            Keeps me company in every class. :P

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Edda Discussion - H

              Reading this and living in Finland I find that the people here think like this normally. to me it is common sense to behave in this manner and the do's and don'ts are automatic for me. I think though that a lot of the younger generation should understand this text and to show them how respectful people behave in a normal society, but alas this is lost on them, one thing is for certain though my children WILL know how to be in society!!!!!
              http://theheathenstudyclub.proboards.com/

              Comment

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