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    Pagan without Deity?

    I've been scrambling all over the internet recently, racking up bookmarks and and making notes and looking at videos. I'm interested in looking into Paganism but what I'm not really interested in is Deity, but it seems to me that doesn't really exist? At the very least I'm having a hard time finding it. So I suppose I have several questions:
    Is there Paganism without Deity? What is that called and where can I learn more about it?
    Is it anything like pantheism?
    While I'm gathering my information, if I cut out the parts that mention Deity, will it still work?

    Sorry if these are dumb/broad questions. I'm not sure how to ask better ones yet.

    #2
    Re: Pagan without Deity?

    I don't understand why people insist on labelling themselves and each other. Just believe or disbelieve whichever parts of whichever religions you want. You don't need to follow someone else's path, you can make your own.
    Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Pagan without Deity?

      Paganism is a very wide umbrella encompassing a host of sects with occasionally very different views. Inquisitors will not be dispatched to charge you with heresy against Paganism if you aren't interested in deities.

      I may dispatch Inquisitors if you blaspheme against PIZZA but that has little to do with paganism.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #4
        Re: Pagan without Deity?

        Thank you. That's actually very helpful. Some of the things I've been reading have made me feel like that would be wrong, so that's nice to hear.

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          #5
          Re: Pagan without Deity?

          Some worship or at least revere nature itself without referring to any specific deity. I do both really. I revere nature but also call upon deities to help and assist and protect me sometimes. I see them as supernatural teachers, teaching me and helping me throughout life.

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            #6
            Re: Pagan without Deity?

            Not everyone is capable of believing in deities though. I'm sure as hell not, hard as I tried to at first. No point trying to fit some idea of the "perfect pagan". Just be yourself miss_mc, and don't feel as though you have to do anything in order to be a pagan.
            Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
              Not everyone is capable of believing in deities though. I'm sure as hell not, hard as I tried to at first. No point trying to fit some idea of the "perfect pagan". Just be yourself miss_mc, and don't feel as though you have to do anything in order to be a pagan.
              I struggle too. I just havent had any of those grand experiences to convince me. I talk to the universe sometimes and expect it to help me, but I also know thats unlikely, and so it often turns out more like an affirmation for myself.
              ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

              RIP

              I have never been across the way
              Seen the desert and the birds
              You cut your hair short
              Like a shush to an insult
              The world had been yelling
              Since the day you were born
              Revolting with anger
              While it smiled like it was cute
              That everything was shit.

              - J. Wylder

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                #8
                Re: Pagan without Deity?

                Originally posted by Heka View Post
                I struggle too. I just havent had any of those grand experiences to convince me. I talk to the universe sometimes and expect it to help me, but I also know thats unlikely, and so it often turns out more like an affirmation for myself.
                Mm, ditto. I treat the deities as symbols. They represent things that I aspire to, or find important. I don't believe they're real things, just ideas, fiction.

                Alan Moore, the creator of Watchmen, V for Vendetta, etc. is a pagan who dedicated himself to a Roman snake god call Glycon. Glycon was an invention of Alexander of Abonoteichus, just a puppet used to swindle people. Ethan Doyle-White said, "The very fact that Glycon was probably one big hoax was enough to convince Moore to devote himself to the scaly lord, for, as Moore maintains, the imagination is just as real as reality."
                Alan himself said, "I tend to think of paganism as a kind of alphabet, as a language, it's like all of the gods are letters in that language. They express nuances, shades of meaning or certain subtleties of ideas..."

                There is no overarching "truth" as some religions claim. There is only personal truth.
                As far as I'm concerned, that means do and believe whatever makes you feel good.
                Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Pagan without Deity?

                  Originally posted by miss_mc View Post
                  I've been scrambling all over the internet recently, racking up bookmarks and and making notes and looking at videos. I'm interested in looking into Paganism but what I'm not really interested in is Deity, but it seems to me that doesn't really exist? At the very least I'm having a hard time finding it. So I suppose I have several questions:
                  Is there Paganism without Deity? What is that called and where can I learn more about it?
                  Is it anything like pantheism?
                  While I'm gathering my information, if I cut out the parts that mention Deity, will it still work?

                  Sorry if these are dumb/broad questions. I'm not sure how to ask better ones yet.
                  There are plenty of pagans who don't believe in deities, running the whole gamut from pantheist to atheist. There as many different forms of theism as you can think of (and more) within the pagan umbrella, so never fear that you have to limit yourself based on your belief or disbelief in entities other than ourselves.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Pagan without Deity?

                    Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
                    Alan himself said, "I tend to think of paganism as a kind of alphabet, as a language, it's like all of the gods are letters in that language. They express nuances, shades of meaning or certain subtleties of ideas..."

                    There is no overarching "truth" as some religions claim. There is only personal truth.
                    As far as I'm concerned, that means do and believe whatever makes you feel good.

                    I'm not sure I agree with the last bit in context with the first part...Religion is a type of language, and language is deeply cultural. Inuits have dozens of words for "snow", the ancient Greeks recognized six types of "love", German has a word for getting fat from eating while depressed. Religion, like language, is a product of evolution and has undergone its own cultural evolution. Even NRMs (New Religious Movements) like the various Paganisms are a product of their culture. "Personal truth" is a cultural (or sub-culture) response...and one that that isn't unique--its been done over and over and over, and it has its own thematic truth that has been repeated over and over and over, even if the specific beliefs and practices between two people are unique because they've been pieced together from different fabrics to make something new.
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

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                      #11
                      Re: Pagan without Deity?

                      Originally posted by Quetzal View Post
                      Not everyone is capable of believing in deities though. I'm sure as hell not, hard as I tried to at first. No point trying to fit some idea of the "perfect pagan". Just be yourself miss_mc, and don't feel as though you have to do anything in order to be a pagan.
                      Quetzal is fully right here.
                      I'm not sure about this, but most of branches in Paganism have gods, except Druidry. But one thing I can say for sure - you don't have to follow a deity from the very beginning.
                      No matter what branch of Paganism you look into - Shinto, Hellenism, Kemetism, Celtic Paganism, Norse Paganism and so on...
                      "Fair means that everybody gets what they need. And the only way to get that is to make it happen yourself."



                      Since I adore cats, I might write something strange or unusual in my comment.Cats are awesome!!! ^_^

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                        #12
                        Re: Pagan without Deity?

                        I'm a pantheist.

                        I believe the Universe is the Ultimate reality. It doesn't have a personality or a "being".

                        I don't worship it, though I am awed and grateful etc

                        I worship the Sun, not because I think it's a deity or anything, it's just my response to it, has been my entire life.

                        I'm pretty religious and get a lot of satisfaction from practicing my faith.

                        Evolution seemed to have programmed me (and many others) to have a spiritual interest etc, so I'm taking advantage of it!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Pagan without Deity?

                          Originally posted by miss_mc View Post
                          Thank you. That's actually very helpful. Some of the things I've been reading have made me feel like that would be wrong, so that's nice to hear.
                          I'm a little late to this party but whenever this kind of conundrum appears I quite like to shower this thread around.
                          Morale of the story, do what you want, all us other people are wrong and stupid ;P

                          Welcome to the forum btw ^^
                          Work hard Play hard.
                          What is history?

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                            #14
                            Re: Pagan without Deity?

                            Oh, I forgot to mention (got tied up in the side convo)...in response to your actual questions...

                            Originally posted by miss_mc View Post
                            I've been scrambling all over the internet recently, racking up bookmarks and and making notes and looking at videos. I'm interested in looking into Paganism but what I'm not really interested in is Deity, but it seems to me that doesn't really exist? At the very least I'm having a hard time finding it. So I suppose I have several questions:
                            Is there Paganism without Deity?
                            Yes, yes there is!


                            What is that called and where can I learn more about it?
                            There are a number of ways one can go here, from pantheism to actual atheistic paganism. They may be called/call their practice things like Naturalistic Paganism or Humanistic Paganism or Jungian neo-Pagan or maybe they don't advertise the fact at all--I've met atheist and agnostic Heathens, Druids, and Wiccans. Heck, I *am* (in terms of belief) agnostic, though pantheistic (in terms of experience) and polytheistic (in terms of practice) and a humanist (in terms of philosophy)...


                            Some sites for reference:
                            http://humanisticpaganism.com/ (while not strictly a humanistic Pagan, I have occasionally contributed to this blog)
                            Ours is a path both inspiring and, to the best of human ability, true. Ours is a naturalistic path rooted in ancient Paganism and contemporary science. This path integrates mythic, meditative, and …

                            About a year ago, I was attending a semi-private gathering of pagans in eastern Ontario, Canada.  One of the people there was an atheist and we were

                            Humanism is the concept that human reason, need, perception, ethics, and experience are the primary drivers of a satisfactory ord...

                            Can atheists be Pagans? To me, the answer to that question seems easy. Of course they can. But when I brought up the subject recen...


                            For me, relationship with the gods is what makes me a Contemporary Pagan. I've never understood Paganism without deity, even though I have many friends who lean that way. I thought it would be interesting to interview one of my "Atheist Pagan" friends in an attempt to better understand her way of thinking.



                            Is it anything like pantheism?
                            It can be. It depends on the person or group. If you are interested in a particular theological perspective, I'd research that to start with....

                            While I'm gathering my information, if I cut out the parts that mention Deity, will it still work?

                            Sorry if these are dumb/broad questions. I'm not sure how to ask better ones yet.
                            #1, not a dumb question. #2, it does for some people!
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                            sigpic

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                              #15
                              Re: Pagan without Deity?

                              I would need to study more mythology before I could pick a deity.I feel that each culture just has different labels for essentially the same god/dess and whatever name resonates with you best,if any at all, works. As of now, similar to Threshold, I look to the sun and the moon.

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