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    Do animals have souls?

    Seeing the pet thread I made seems to be going strong, I thought I would ask about this. What does your religion say about animals and souls, if any? If not, what are your beliefs on the subject and more importantly WHY do you believe that? And is this belief based on fact/science/gut feeling/really really wanting it to be true?
    Satan is my spirit animal

    #2
    Re: Do animals have souls?

    In my eyes, the answer would most certainly be "Yes". As there are many things other species do to suggest that they are far from what that fool Descartes thought.
    "As long as humans continue to be the ruthless destroyer of other beings, we will never know health or peace. For as long as people massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, those who sow the seed of murder and pain will never reap joy or love." - Pythagoras


    "I too shall lie in the dust when I am dead, but now let me win noble renown." - Homer, The Iliad

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      #3
      Re: Do animals have souls?

      Originally posted by Medusa View Post
      Seeing the pet thread I made seems to be going strong, I thought I would ask about this. What does your religion say about animals and souls, if any? If not, what are your beliefs on the subject and more importantly WHY do you believe that? And is this belief based on fact/science/gut feeling/really really wanting it to be true?
      Tough question.

      I want to believe that animals have souls, just as I wish to believe that people do. But the truth of the matter is that it's hard to reconcile certain facts and observations with that gut feeling, the *desire* to believe that kind of depth exists in others, both animals and humans.

      I mean, on one hand, science can measure cognizance and self awareness, at least on some level, but that doesn't indicate any existence of a soul, in anyone. Or anything. Yet, there *are* things abound that science has yet to explain, or otherwise prove the existence of. I can't assume that the known science is all there is, that science has reached its end, on the discovery pier. But I can't assume the opposite, either - that the discovery of [the existence of] souls, scientifically, is only a matter of time. So, science doesn't answer my dilemma.

      Religion doesn't do a fair job of mitigating that paradox for me, either, though. I suppose, if I had stayed in tune, so to speak, with a very strict system of beliefs, I wouldn't be left with this conundrum. It would be, most likely, a basic tenet of that narrow, focused path. I couldn't stay on such a defined and finite course, in terms of religion. Not with epiphanies that contradict long-held traditions or dogma. Not with differing understandings of some basic human principles that are specifically non-deity oriented. No, religion doesn't answer my dilemma, either.

      So, what I've done, as a sort of patchwork, is kind of assume that souls, like love, are definable but aren't prevalent. What I mean is that the idea of everyone having a soul is contradictory to what I know. Same with animals. Some do; some don't. And I could not tell you which was which. However, I just act like it's true with animals, and even a few of the people, that I am personally acquainted with.









      Or was that too vague?




      "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

      "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

      "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

      "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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        #4
        Re: Do animals have souls?

        I'm not sure I believe in "souls" in any spiritual sense. Honestly not sure where I stand on that, so I guess I'll just have to go with maybe to that one.
        As it more or less answers your question sans the "soul" part, I consider other animals to be completely equal to humans in terms of rights. Just as I wouldn't kill a human under any ordinary circumstances, nor enslave one, nor keep one captive against their will, nor harm or mistreat one, I wouldn't with any non-human animal either.
        I don't consume animals as food, nor do I use products tested on them or made from them (to the best of my knowledge). I don't even kill bugs unless physically harmed by one.

        So if we just assume for the purposes of this thread that the human soul is real in the conventional sense, then yeah, animals would definitely have souls too.
        Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

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          #5
          Re: Do animals have souls?

          As noble as all that I don't kill things sounds. Then technically you are not a part of nature but apart from nature. You kill all day long. Sorry to burst your zen bubble
          Satan is my spirit animal

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            #6
            Re: Do animals have souls?

            I kill plants all the time. Gotta eat. And obviously there are things so small I can't see and so on.
            Yikes, all that cultural appropriation that used to be here tho

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              #7
              Re: Do animals have souls?

              I have feelings about my dog, so, by doing that, I give it a soul.

              My dog returns the favor.

              Is this based on science, religion, gut feeling?

              No. It's part of a model for understanding and classifying relationships. A mental construct.
              Last edited by B. de Corbin; 07 Jul 2014, 16:09. Reason: Clarity
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                #8
                Re: Do animals have souls?

                Short answer... yes. Long answer and comments on other answers will have to wait until after work 'coz I don't have the time right now.

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                  #9
                  Re: Do animals have souls?

                  Yes. I think humans have souls and I'm not so arrogant to completely separate humans and animals.
                  Circe

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                    #10
                    Re: Do animals have souls?

                    I believe in the existence of souls, and within my framework, animals have souls. They also have discernible emotions, self-awareness, and needs/wants beyond pure instinct.

                    We humans continually want to place ourselves above & beyond all other life on the planet, & the belief that animals don't have souls or aren't capable of doing anything outside instinct is a pretty clear example of that. We ain't that special
                    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                      #11
                      Re: Do animals have souls?

                      First: Humans are animals.
                      Second: Humans do not have souls.

                      No, I don't think (other) animals have souls
                      "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                        #12
                        Re: Do animals have souls?

                        If humans have souls, so do other animals. We are not more passionate, more caring, more loving, more intelligent than all other species... if animals don't have souls then neither do we.

                        Of course, defining exactly what a soul is, is quite a different matter!
                        www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                        Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                          #13
                          Re: Do animals have souls?

                          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                          Seeing the pet thread I made seems to be going strong, I thought I would ask about this. What does your religion say about animals and souls, if any? If not, what are your beliefs on the subject and more importantly WHY do you believe that? And is this belief based on fact/science/gut feeling/really really wanting it to be true?
                          Yes, I believe that animals have souls. I also believe that all living things have souls, they just aren't all of the same 'type', so to speak. My belief in not based on any sort of fact or science (how can it be?... we can't prove the existence of human souls let alone animal ones) but purely on my belief system, my animism and my extensive experience working with animals on a daily basis. I can't reconcile the idea that animals DON'T have souls with my experience of animals... but then I suppose that really comes down to the idea of what you believe a soul actually is. Personally, on a very basic level, I believe that all spirits have souls... which means not only living organisms but non-corporeal entities and in some cases inanimate objects.

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                            #14
                            Re: Do animals have souls?

                            If people have souls, then animals have souls. I more or less believe in the whole concept of souls, but I still waver from time to time. Anyway, I don't see how we would be so special in that regard.

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                              #15
                              Re: Do animals have souls?

                              So...I think it depends on what one concieves a "soul" as.

                              *If one concieves "soul" to be some approximation of an intact consciousness that continues in the absence of a body, which may or may not be reincarnated after death, or goes to some sort of afterlife, and/or is "placed" in a body at conception or before birth, etc. Then, no. I think it is unlikely that animals, including humans, have a soul.

                              *If one concieves "soul" to be some complex approximation of consciousness, then yes, I believe that some animals, including humans, have one (animals like elephants, dolphins, apes, and perhaps a few others). But not all animals (jellyfish are soul-less), and not all life forms (so are the shrubberies). Here, it is important to note that the science of consciousness (and yes, there is such a thing) is still in its early phases and is not always well defined or understood.

                              *If one concieves "soul" to be the spark of whatever makes us animated hunks of matter (what makes us alive)--what puts the ignis or spiritus vitae in the corpus, if you will (as a family we are self-teaching ourselves Latin, it just sounds cool and I think that, as a dead language, it lets you have a little more flexibility with meaning than English does)...then yeah, I think humans (as animals) and plants have "souls". Personally, I disagree that this is what a "soul" is (I fall in the consciousness=soul camp), but if that is how one defines it, then it technically qualifies.

                              *If one concieves "soul" to be a sort of je ne sai quoi for a quality relating to sacredness, then I think nearly everything *can* have a soul, wether it be human or not, or even alive or not (and again, I would disagree with this use, but...). I also think that "sacreness" is entirely up to the beholder.
                              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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